Trouble in HK atc
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The new president should issue a press release quoting the cad
to backup his/her members demanding actions be taken againist the cockpit crews. In uk, this will be expected of a strong union
to backup his/her members demanding actions be taken againist the cockpit crews. In uk, this will be expected of a strong union
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The CAD press release also said:
"On a normal day, there are typically eight controller working positions for the Approach Control Sectors in the Air Traffic Control Centre. In anticipation of the traffic complexity due to bad weather, one additional working position was opened up (for a total of nine) on September 18, and 13 controllers were on duty to man the nine positions in managing the air traffic. The staffing provision was considered sufficient to meet the traffic level."
Only 8 physical Approach stream control positions - no 9th exists - normal staff levels do not allow all 8 open for extended periods and usually only staffed for any 7 at a time. App supervisor needs to work under the then normal rostering arrangements and even under a recent update. This is of course provided everyone turns up. Office can provide some contin
Of the 8 positions - two lack the normal desk fittings for strip handling and one has a non-standard coms layout.
NOT ENOUGH STAFF that Sunday or any other day of the year - sorry to shout but it seems like some are a bit deaf in CAD.
So one press release about one of the incidents around that time:
Why no release about the second incident with one of the aircraft involved in the first incident a few minutes later?
Why no press release about the secondary frequencies in use following multiple primary frequency failures earlier in the day (so NO backups if the single point of failure Comms unit fails - as they do)?
Why no press release about the fuel related Maydays?
That Sunday HK ATC broke - chaos - that warrants an honest open press release - why wait for the 'smoking hole' as someone else here put it before CAD admits the true state of HK ATC?
"On a normal day, there are typically eight controller working positions for the Approach Control Sectors in the Air Traffic Control Centre. In anticipation of the traffic complexity due to bad weather, one additional working position was opened up (for a total of nine) on September 18, and 13 controllers were on duty to man the nine positions in managing the air traffic. The staffing provision was considered sufficient to meet the traffic level."
Only 8 physical Approach stream control positions - no 9th exists - normal staff levels do not allow all 8 open for extended periods and usually only staffed for any 7 at a time. App supervisor needs to work under the then normal rostering arrangements and even under a recent update. This is of course provided everyone turns up. Office can provide some contin
Of the 8 positions - two lack the normal desk fittings for strip handling and one has a non-standard coms layout.
NOT ENOUGH STAFF that Sunday or any other day of the year - sorry to shout but it seems like some are a bit deaf in CAD.
So one press release about one of the incidents around that time:
Why no release about the second incident with one of the aircraft involved in the first incident a few minutes later?
Why no press release about the secondary frequencies in use following multiple primary frequency failures earlier in the day (so NO backups if the single point of failure Comms unit fails - as they do)?
Why no press release about the fuel related Maydays?
That Sunday HK ATC broke - chaos - that warrants an honest open press release - why wait for the 'smoking hole' as someone else here put it before CAD admits the true state of HK ATC?
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Were these supposedly "ignored ATC instructions" given during the supposed RA?
(If so, it seems nobody has mentioned ATC instructions must be ignored and TCAS RA instructions must be followed instead, in all cases, to avoid a collision.)
(If so, it seems nobody has mentioned ATC instructions must be ignored and TCAS RA instructions must be followed instead, in all cases, to avoid a collision.)
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TOIL - what does any EG or late-break as you call it have to do with anything that happens in the middle of a shift? How about we trace your IP address and punish you for being too stupid?
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A-GPS (and others), don't you know what a TCAS RA is?
Have you heard of the midair collision over Europe because one crew obeyed ATC instructions instead of their RA instructions? Are you familiar with the phrase "TCAS RA/climb/descent" that means the aircraft will not follow ATC instructions until the imminent collision is avoided?
Have you heard of the midair collision over Europe because one crew obeyed ATC instructions instead of their RA instructions? Are you familiar with the phrase "TCAS RA/climb/descent" that means the aircraft will not follow ATC instructions until the imminent collision is avoided?
Last edited by Iron Skillet; 4th Oct 2011 at 12:03.
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Before you go,have a look at the UK AAIB archive report 1/89.
It was between a Tristar GBBAH and TU154 LZBTE over Lydd on 6/2/88.
Many sobering and parallel lessons to be learned,and it looks like the HKCAD has learned little in 24 years.Not surprising really.
It was between a Tristar GBBAH and TU154 LZBTE over Lydd on 6/2/88.
Many sobering and parallel lessons to be learned,and it looks like the HKCAD has learned little in 24 years.Not surprising really.
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Y.K.F.C
I haven't got a clue what you are wittering about,and I guess the pilots will be the same.Sort of sums up the problem really with tin cans full of hundreds of people flying around and your ICAO level ?*! English at the helm.
This dragon is glad to be OUT.
I haven't got a clue what you are wittering about,and I guess the pilots will be the same.Sort of sums up the problem really with tin cans full of hundreds of people flying around and your ICAO level ?*! English at the helm.
This dragon is glad to be OUT.
Agreed t.a.d.
YKFC, I've tried to understand what you are saying. No, really. But for the life of me, I just can't figure out any of your posts.
Please tell me I don't work with you on a regular basis- or are you on the 'whacky watch'? That would explain a lot.
YKFC, I've tried to understand what you are saying. No, really. But for the life of me, I just can't figure out any of your posts.
Please tell me I don't work with you on a regular basis- or are you on the 'whacky watch'? That would explain a lot.
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TAD
your quoted ukaiib incident bears no resemblance at all to what happened
in hk on 18 Sep. Our opposite numbers in uk failed to co-ordinate as they should have, each one working their own on each offending tin-can;
in hk our doctrine is "respect airspace integrity and minimum co-ord",
the 2 iron-birds were under the same girl's control. So dont try to be a smart-aleck and think you know all, you know nothing!
AT
RADAR is easy to spell, two As either way;
APPRAISE and APPRISE are not, one tricky A makes hell to your spelling.
Also are you serious about asking youse honker co-workers to take their
180-day leave? Do you really not know that they are all forced to accumulate and not spend because "management" has to make sure that
youse honkies get your colonial legacy of "annual leave" in every year?
Otherwise, they have hell to explain to the overlords in civil service board
why they fail to do so. Local honkers are much easier to manipulate
coz they all want their promotion
Also, dont tell me that you only get 1 late break every shift?
How many breaks did you have before youse snuck away at 1:30pm?
Stay hungry but stay contented:
your quoted ukaiib incident bears no resemblance at all to what happened
in hk on 18 Sep. Our opposite numbers in uk failed to co-ordinate as they should have, each one working their own on each offending tin-can;
in hk our doctrine is "respect airspace integrity and minimum co-ord",
the 2 iron-birds were under the same girl's control. So dont try to be a smart-aleck and think you know all, you know nothing!
AT
RADAR is easy to spell, two As either way;
APPRAISE and APPRISE are not, one tricky A makes hell to your spelling.
Also are you serious about asking youse honker co-workers to take their
180-day leave? Do you really not know that they are all forced to accumulate and not spend because "management" has to make sure that
youse honkies get your colonial legacy of "annual leave" in every year?
Otherwise, they have hell to explain to the overlords in civil service board
why they fail to do so. Local honkers are much easier to manipulate
coz they all want their promotion
Also, dont tell me that you only get 1 late break every shift?
How many breaks did you have before youse snuck away at 1:30pm?
Stay hungry but stay contented:
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The past months were extremely testing times for Management. Frankly, our only real problem is the controllers. Recently, they have cheekily claimed they do not get enough leave, they don’t get long enough breaks, they are overworked and suffer fatigue etc. They even say there is a shortage of controllers – how could they possibly know? Management has heard it all before and is not impressed. Statistics are very useful – and recent statistics available to all in the name of Transparency - show the opposite to be true and suggest Management is doing an excellent job as usual.
Some controllers have accumulated 180 day of annual leave, but the truth is they actually don’t want their leave and are happy to accumulate leave and TOIL so they can retire 6-12 months early 20 years from now. These days, practically everybody requesting leave gets it. Anybody saying otherwise is lying, simple truth!
Management makes sure lots of leave is given to the controllers by making others work on their day 10, by rostering staff 5 on - 1 off, 4 on- 1 off etc and Management brilliantly staggers the shifts so controllers are able to work two and a half hours before their well-deserved half hour dinner break followed by another two hours of work. Management rosters the supervisors to work and combines positions on the Daily Manning template. Management even goes to the extreme of assigning controllers annual leave on their days off between 2 cycles so their leave balance does not exceed 180 days. Thus, Management does everything it possibly can to make sure controllers get leave. The staffing situation in atcx is most healthy and there are no problems here at all. In actual fact, there is a surplus of controllers and therefore it has been decided that a new Management position will be created in a shiny new office on the Fourth Floor. That will fix all future problems. By creating this new position Super-Management once again shows just how clever and vigilant it is and this will prevent occurrences like 9-18 from ever happening again. Speaking of 9-18 it must be pointed out that – in spite of what was viciously written in the press - the manning on that day was more than sufficient. Extra positions were opened; there were plenty of controllers at work on the day and the individual controllers workload was reasonable and with plenty of breaks as well. In fact, one extra controller was rostered on September 18 to cater for unexpected events like this minor hiccup. Everything was under complete control at all times and all actions were executed in a calm and orderly fashion. At absolutely no point was any aircraft in any danger in any way. Super-Management had a meeting with Dragonair and Cathay representatives and the 3 parties reached the conclusion that it was simply an unfortunate one-off system error. After the meeting Management changed course and blamed the pilots in the official report. How cunning of Super-Management! Now the 2 airlines involved have missed the chance to argue their case and we found ourselves squeaky clean as always.
You can all rest assured that Management will continue to selflessly do its best to improve the controllers already excellent working conditions. The controllers, however, seem forever ungrateful and do not appreciate this hard work at all. Such pathetic commoners and normal deviants – they lack discipline, integrity and vision. On top of that, according to our statistics, they only work 36.17 hours a week. The controllers are mere pimples on the bottom of mankind! Management spits in their general direction.
Off to lunch now, my Blackberry is vibrating.
Some controllers have accumulated 180 day of annual leave, but the truth is they actually don’t want their leave and are happy to accumulate leave and TOIL so they can retire 6-12 months early 20 years from now. These days, practically everybody requesting leave gets it. Anybody saying otherwise is lying, simple truth!
Management makes sure lots of leave is given to the controllers by making others work on their day 10, by rostering staff 5 on - 1 off, 4 on- 1 off etc and Management brilliantly staggers the shifts so controllers are able to work two and a half hours before their well-deserved half hour dinner break followed by another two hours of work. Management rosters the supervisors to work and combines positions on the Daily Manning template. Management even goes to the extreme of assigning controllers annual leave on their days off between 2 cycles so their leave balance does not exceed 180 days. Thus, Management does everything it possibly can to make sure controllers get leave. The staffing situation in atcx is most healthy and there are no problems here at all. In actual fact, there is a surplus of controllers and therefore it has been decided that a new Management position will be created in a shiny new office on the Fourth Floor. That will fix all future problems. By creating this new position Super-Management once again shows just how clever and vigilant it is and this will prevent occurrences like 9-18 from ever happening again. Speaking of 9-18 it must be pointed out that – in spite of what was viciously written in the press - the manning on that day was more than sufficient. Extra positions were opened; there were plenty of controllers at work on the day and the individual controllers workload was reasonable and with plenty of breaks as well. In fact, one extra controller was rostered on September 18 to cater for unexpected events like this minor hiccup. Everything was under complete control at all times and all actions were executed in a calm and orderly fashion. At absolutely no point was any aircraft in any danger in any way. Super-Management had a meeting with Dragonair and Cathay representatives and the 3 parties reached the conclusion that it was simply an unfortunate one-off system error. After the meeting Management changed course and blamed the pilots in the official report. How cunning of Super-Management! Now the 2 airlines involved have missed the chance to argue their case and we found ourselves squeaky clean as always.
You can all rest assured that Management will continue to selflessly do its best to improve the controllers already excellent working conditions. The controllers, however, seem forever ungrateful and do not appreciate this hard work at all. Such pathetic commoners and normal deviants – they lack discipline, integrity and vision. On top of that, according to our statistics, they only work 36.17 hours a week. The controllers are mere pimples on the bottom of mankind! Management spits in their general direction.
Off to lunch now, my Blackberry is vibrating.
Last edited by hkatc Management; 23rd Oct 2011 at 15:48.
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hkatc Management, the weather is getting cold, save your gas to warm your stomach. Why not line up to collect the reimbursement from the union which had declared bankruptcy last night. 