Trouble in HK atc
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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"Last Saturday was a goatfest. The holding @ Abbey now ALL the time.. strange vectors.. maintain high speed from first girl, next girl please slow 220, next sector 250 knots please.. "
With that kind of speed control, you are definitely flying into HK . Always welcome you guys back with open arms.
With that kind of speed control, you are definitely flying into HK . Always welcome you guys back with open arms.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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AAIGUY: "Last Saturday was a goatfest. ..."
A goatfest seems to be a popular title for music festivals in rural areas. Did you really mean: "Sterotyped Traditional East Asian Unplaned Combustion Event Response Practice Activity" ?
I blame A MAN that somehow, no one can get on with well.
Time spare - go by air!
A goatfest seems to be a popular title for music festivals in rural areas. Did you really mean: "Sterotyped Traditional East Asian Unplaned Combustion Event Response Practice Activity" ?
I blame A MAN that somehow, no one can get on with well.
Time spare - go by air!
It may be that I am a little green about the ears, but if my flight plan has been accepted with a particular alternate, then yes, I expect to go there and find room for me.
You have a strange idea about the way things work in the industry.
Join Date: Sep 2011
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The problems in H.K. C.A.D.are many and varied . Extremely poor recruiting over the past 10 years or so has produced many below average controllers,too many females and a management staffed by incompenent fools.Spineless , back stabbing bigots ,most of them .
No wonder pilots are getting frustrated with the controllers.Their understanding of how airtraffic control works is almost non-existent. Things will only get worse as more and more of the experienced expats leave .
Bring back the Americans and Canadiens and things will improve.
God bless America.
No wonder pilots are getting frustrated with the controllers.Their understanding of how airtraffic control works is almost non-existent. Things will only get worse as more and more of the experienced expats leave .
Bring back the Americans and Canadiens and things will improve.
God bless America.
Join Date: May 2009
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LapSap
Do you really work for HKG ATC? If you do I think that the above quote is the root of your problems. No option but to hold everyone 
are you serious? Did anyone actually go around after getting established on the ILS? OK, I know the answer to that one, it was all diversions from the hold. Was the weather ever bad at the airport? Ah, know the answer to that one also.
It was the crews ahead of you that were saying they couldn't negotiate the weather, not us! What would you like to do with those who wouldn't "have a go"? Say "get out of the way" and let someone with a green tail have a go?? Once aircraft start orbiting/holding/ wandering all over the sky of their own volition within 25 miles of the field theres no option but to hold everyone else out.
are you serious? Did anyone actually go around after getting established on the ILS? OK, I know the answer to that one, it was all diversions from the hold. Was the weather ever bad at the airport? Ah, know the answer to that one also.
Last edited by SloppyJoe; 25th Sep 2011 at 18:50.
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Early and Iron,
No, I don't hate women at all. But in H.K. A.T.C.,it is quite evident that most of the women there, not all,are at the bottom end of the competence ladder, including the A.S.U.'s. and A.P.S.'s.Very little knowledge of exactly what they are trying to achieve, unless it is wriiten in a book . If it is in a book, they will ofcourse have no problem. But try to ad-lib or when ****e hits the fan, they get a little ''lost''.Not just my opinion , believe me.
No, I don't hate women at all. But in H.K. A.T.C.,it is quite evident that most of the women there, not all,are at the bottom end of the competence ladder, including the A.S.U.'s. and A.P.S.'s.Very little knowledge of exactly what they are trying to achieve, unless it is wriiten in a book . If it is in a book, they will ofcourse have no problem. But try to ad-lib or when ****e hits the fan, they get a little ''lost''.Not just my opinion , believe me.
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Lazygal/Early Go et al
See how In have revive this dying link as I promised you?
Though I must advise you to read these impostors with thy judgments.
e.g. HR's fuddled exposition (oxymoron!)on Calculus ATC (Newton's or Leibniz's?)
AAIGUY's perverted and unfair views on Chinese women controllers
FF4 calling me YAAFM when I pointed out the bigots, racists and chauvelists (wonder why the moderators tolerate and not remove them?)
Everyone is trying to come across as smart alecks and putting others down!
What they dont do is to attune themselves to modern ATC, which is
based on specialization and sectorization. We only care for what happen in our small sector, we dont co-ordinate unless Squawk 7700 appears, we concentrate in our own tasks at hand. Let the managers take the big picture,
that's their job and they get better pay than us. So if u are no.1 in a sector,
of course you will be asked to bolt, if you are smack-dab in the middle, you may be asked to slow/ Going into the next sector, if your no.1 position in the previous sector catches up the last in mine, of course you will be asked to pull right back. Have you not heard enough of the instruction "Report your speed on first contact with 1xx,yy?" - we dont even co-ordinate that, we ask you to tell the next girl what we did to you, hahhahaha
See how In have revive this dying link as I promised you?
Though I must advise you to read these impostors with thy judgments.
e.g. HR's fuddled exposition (oxymoron!)on Calculus ATC (Newton's or Leibniz's?)
AAIGUY's perverted and unfair views on Chinese women controllers
FF4 calling me YAAFM when I pointed out the bigots, racists and chauvelists (wonder why the moderators tolerate and not remove them?)
Everyone is trying to come across as smart alecks and putting others down!
What they dont do is to attune themselves to modern ATC, which is
based on specialization and sectorization. We only care for what happen in our small sector, we dont co-ordinate unless Squawk 7700 appears, we concentrate in our own tasks at hand. Let the managers take the big picture,
that's their job and they get better pay than us. So if u are no.1 in a sector,
of course you will be asked to bolt, if you are smack-dab in the middle, you may be asked to slow/ Going into the next sector, if your no.1 position in the previous sector catches up the last in mine, of course you will be asked to pull right back. Have you not heard enough of the instruction "Report your speed on first contact with 1xx,yy?" - we dont even co-ordinate that, we ask you to tell the next girl what we did to you, hahhahaha
Buggar me, if that last post is from an actual HK ATC'er, and is any indication of the standards and thought processes in play on the other end of the mic, I'm scared!
A few years ago coming into HKG in ****e WX ATC was the least of your worries, absolutely top class! Now, ATC it is becoming a threat on a good day!
As others have said, I hope it doesn't take a smoking hole for CAD to get their finger out!
A few years ago coming into HKG in ****e WX ATC was the least of your worries, absolutely top class! Now, ATC it is becoming a threat on a good day!
As others have said, I hope it doesn't take a smoking hole for CAD to get their finger out!
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CX and KA just got screwed by ATC managers in the Standard. 
From an insider it was a larger ATC problem not an individual controllers fault.
I just hope CX and KA managers have the balls to demand a public apology and that a few heads roll.
From an insider it was a larger ATC problem not an individual controllers fault.
I just hope CX and KA managers have the balls to demand a public apology and that a few heads roll.
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boys & girls
rather than wools being pull over our eyes to the half truths, isnt it more intriguing to see how this has evolved into a political football?
e.g. Why is the scaremonger ex-HK aviation/HAECO chief so keen
to incite the public to demand a commission of inquiry? Why must he see heads roll? Has he got an axe to grind with the current aviation chief?
While HK CAA has released high=profile data about the controller involved,
"plenty of rest, plenty of positions opened, 14 years plus experience, etc etc"
Why is CPA/HDA silent about pilots expertise?
Someone is responsible, who is that someone Albert is trying to slay?
rather than wools being pull over our eyes to the half truths, isnt it more intriguing to see how this has evolved into a political football?
e.g. Why is the scaremonger ex-HK aviation/HAECO chief so keen
to incite the public to demand a commission of inquiry? Why must he see heads roll? Has he got an axe to grind with the current aviation chief?
While HK CAA has released high=profile data about the controller involved,
"plenty of rest, plenty of positions opened, 14 years plus experience, etc etc"
Why is CPA/HDA silent about pilots expertise?
Someone is responsible, who is that someone Albert is trying to slay?
I don't think anyone is specifically trying to 'assassinate' anyone here, nor using this as an excuse to 'get even'.
These incidents on Sunday, all point towards major, serious problems within HK ATC. I've been flying in & out of HK for 15 years and can honestly say that over the last 18 months or so, there has been a BIG, noticeable difference in the competency of the controllers.
The controllers who post on this forum have been saying & warning of this for quite some time now, however talk is cheap, you say. Well, I can say first hand, that I have experienced many, many times 'at the coalface' what these controllers are indeed warning.
Who is at fault here ? Is it the controllers themselves ? No. They are operating as best they can.
They have simply not been provided with the skills, experience, resources and people power to do their jobs safely and efficiently.
So who is responsible for providing this. Obviously management.
Management are grossly neglecting their responsibility and duty. That there is the core of the problem and Sundays fiasco was a big, big warning sign of this.
So no, there is no 'axe to grind' here. Are we to ignore this blatant warning sign and simply soldier on ? When will things change then ? Once 300 or 400 hundred people have been killed ? Is that then the time to make change ?
These incidents on Sunday, all point towards major, serious problems within HK ATC. I've been flying in & out of HK for 15 years and can honestly say that over the last 18 months or so, there has been a BIG, noticeable difference in the competency of the controllers.
The controllers who post on this forum have been saying & warning of this for quite some time now, however talk is cheap, you say. Well, I can say first hand, that I have experienced many, many times 'at the coalface' what these controllers are indeed warning.
Who is at fault here ? Is it the controllers themselves ? No. They are operating as best they can.
They have simply not been provided with the skills, experience, resources and people power to do their jobs safely and efficiently.
So who is responsible for providing this. Obviously management.
Management are grossly neglecting their responsibility and duty. That there is the core of the problem and Sundays fiasco was a big, big warning sign of this.
So no, there is no 'axe to grind' here. Are we to ignore this blatant warning sign and simply soldier on ? When will things change then ? Once 300 or 400 hundred people have been killed ? Is that then the time to make change ?
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Once 300 or 400 hundred people have been killed ? Is that then the time to make change ?
That is why we have regulators. They are there to prevent profit at all costs. Not just in aviation, but in all industry in which the public's safety is at risk from the greedy. And this is the CAD's job, at which they are grandiosely failing.
Take CPA for example. The company basically writes the rules as they wish. Any concerns brought up by individuals or the AOA are deferred to the company. Basically, self policing, which we know DOES NOT WORK. When is the last time CPA was fined for anything by the CAD? Ramp-checked, and found NOTHING outside compliance? Either CPA is perfect, or someone is not looking.
Then look at how CPA is allowed to recruit non-locals as cadet pilots. This scheme was introduced by Cathay to make up for the fact that so many of its pilots came from other countries. A way of giving back to HKG and planting the "aviation seed" so it could grow and compensate for this mostly foreign sector of HKG. Now that program is just about 100% foreign as well, cause most locals know a ****ty deal when they see it.
I don't need an insider to tell me that ATC is in the same trouble. You take off around midnight, one of the busiest periods in HKG and when you check in on the hand off from tower you can hear the departure controller also working arrivals. WTF
On days with weather this controller is talking non-stop, which is very UNSAFE. This is ridiculous and shows that the CAD is non existent in protecting the public.So unfortunately, it will take a major air disaster to wake up the masses and demand serious punishment to the ones responsible. Until then, the CAD will remain absent from all this and continue with business as usual - because business is really the only thing they are looking after.
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Totally agree with Giuseppe there has been a noticeable decline in the standards/quality of HKATC over the past year or so.
A couple of months back on a CAVOK evening, it was 6pm, we were told a delay of 45min, when asked why the reply was weather which led to what weather the reply was weather this morning!!!!
That day had thunderstorms in the early morning around 8am, I understand the problems with China's airway system but delayed to TPE? When we finally got airborne we virtually went direct ELATO without a cloud in the sky, nor was there any significant traffic, We believed ATC may have been short staffed due to the morning workload was more likely.
We're all lucky HK has dodged all the typhoons again, the perfect storm is approaching and I'm not talking just about typhoons, HKCAD you better wake up and take your head out of your .......
A couple of months back on a CAVOK evening, it was 6pm, we were told a delay of 45min, when asked why the reply was weather which led to what weather the reply was weather this morning!!!!
That day had thunderstorms in the early morning around 8am, I understand the problems with China's airway system but delayed to TPE? When we finally got airborne we virtually went direct ELATO without a cloud in the sky, nor was there any significant traffic, We believed ATC may have been short staffed due to the morning workload was more likely.
We're all lucky HK has dodged all the typhoons again, the perfect storm is approaching and I'm not talking just about typhoons, HKCAD you better wake up and take your head out of your .......
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2 CX planes 16:50 today 29th
Can someone please tell me what was going on with a B744 departing about today 29th at 16:50 just airborne and "seemly" taking avoiding action from another Cx twin.
or was this just an optical illusion.
or was this just an optical illusion.
