SCMP Cadet Article
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Still fancy a punch-up? I'd hate to see your man-bag scratched during a scuffle outside Volume
CLASSIC!
Sounds like the only thing he pumps 5 time a day is his little willy! What an idiot!
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Flaps 10,
Great contribution.
TopTup,
I was going to reply via PM so that we don't air our dirty laundry in public (nor waste admin time) but I remeber you telling me via PM that you had blocked me if I were to reply.
I think I need to explain something here.
Last year, I started defending the cadet programme and wannabees who wanted to apply from the personal attacks that were coming from "colleagues" of mine.
It was so damn obvious that the attacks were based on the ridiculous notion that with the cadet programme going international (and the fact there was no housing allowance) ,current ex-pat pilots would suddenly overnight lose their salary, housing benefits and girls in Wanchai...blah blah zzzz.
In my defence of the programme, I happened to mention in my replies that I find it ironic how my ex-pat "colleagues" were dumping all over the dreams and passion of these applicants yet it is the cadet programme itself ,albeit indirectly, that will probably keep most of these guys in their jobs for a good deal longer with a "reasonable" ex-pat. package.
This does NOT mean in any way that I was advocating a cadet programme for the sole reason of "keeping me comfortable". Do you understand this or shall I draw you a picture in crayon? Only a black-and-white person like you would be able to dig up this type of dirt from my replies.
Do you seriously think there is a conspiracy theory where the only reason we have a CPP with no housing benefit is to "keep us comfortable"? Give me a break!
And this thread says it all. We have an investment banker and a doctor on the programme yet because they left $100K per month jobs to join an industry that pays $35k, people think they should be thrown into a mental ward. Sod the fact that these guys with families had to make difficult decisions to change jobs, study from scratch. No, lets take the p1ss out of them and make jokes.
Great contribution.
TopTup,
I was going to reply via PM so that we don't air our dirty laundry in public (nor waste admin time) but I remeber you telling me via PM that you had blocked me if I were to reply.
I think I need to explain something here.
Last year, I started defending the cadet programme and wannabees who wanted to apply from the personal attacks that were coming from "colleagues" of mine.
It was so damn obvious that the attacks were based on the ridiculous notion that with the cadet programme going international (and the fact there was no housing allowance) ,current ex-pat pilots would suddenly overnight lose their salary, housing benefits and girls in Wanchai...blah blah zzzz.
In my defence of the programme, I happened to mention in my replies that I find it ironic how my ex-pat "colleagues" were dumping all over the dreams and passion of these applicants yet it is the cadet programme itself ,albeit indirectly, that will probably keep most of these guys in their jobs for a good deal longer with a "reasonable" ex-pat. package.
This does NOT mean in any way that I was advocating a cadet programme for the sole reason of "keeping me comfortable". Do you understand this or shall I draw you a picture in crayon? Only a black-and-white person like you would be able to dig up this type of dirt from my replies.
Do you seriously think there is a conspiracy theory where the only reason we have a CPP with no housing benefit is to "keep us comfortable"? Give me a break!
And this thread says it all. We have an investment banker and a doctor on the programme yet because they left $100K per month jobs to join an industry that pays $35k, people think they should be thrown into a mental ward. Sod the fact that these guys with families had to make difficult decisions to change jobs, study from scratch. No, lets take the p1ss out of them and make jokes.
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Anyone consider the fact that maybe they don't NEED to work and are doing it for the fun of it?
How dare you come here spouting such nonsense. Don't you know the rules of the Fragrant Harbour? The "F" word is a forbidden word for Cathay Pilots that post on Pprune.
Being a CX pilot is all about moaning and whinging about pollution, moaning about Cadets, moaning about salary- basically moaning about life in general .
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Being a CX pilot is all about moaning and whinging about pollution, moaning about Cadets, moaning about salary- basically moaning about life in general
Sadly, as with most industries nowadays, terms and conditions will be dictated by market forces. Truth is, the market wants to fly for less money than it costs to ride a train over the same distance so until lots of planes start crashing and "would be" pilots (as well as current aviators) turn their backs on flying careers then we will continue to be bent over and rogered...
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At the risk of stirring this heated pot even further, I'd like to add another point re the folly that is the expanded cadet program.
Disregarding the effects of setting a ridiculously low benchmark for remuneration and the rights and wrongs of age suitability, family sacrifices and 'achieving ones dreams'; lets focus for a minute, not on our personal gripes or beliefs on what is best for us, but what is best for this industry and the traveling public - yes that's right, the reason for us having aviation jobs in the first place!
Given there seems to be no plan to ever recruit experienced pilots again, I believe CX (and KA) have gone dangerously off track in considering that the Cadet Scheme can be the sole source for new joiners to the company. The truth is, cadet schemes are little more than a burden on the trng system and in particular the Capts who need to manage the experience levels (or lack thereof) on the fltdeck. In their relentless push to increase profits, Management are happy to lean even more heavily on the experienced pilots in the company, expecting a safe operation with ever decreasing competency levels. Why? -because Management ultimately won't be held responsible if a fatigued Capt makes a mistake on an appch due to not being able to get adequate rest in the cruise, as he doesn't trust the inexperienced cadet pilot to watch the shop. At KA it's even worse, as the cadet SO's are put straight into the right seat and are the the only safety back-up in one of the most challenging flying environments in the World - China.
This risk has been manageable until now, due to the proportion of cadet pilots being relatively low. Even current Expat 2nd officers often have an abundance of good quality pre-CX experience behind them. It's a charming egalitarian notion to pander to individuals who wish to change career in their late 30's, but the reality of having a mature age inexperienced guy doing OJT, suffering the stress of raising a family on a grossly inadequate income, resentful of the trap that he has fallen into and can't get out of until he's actually got some form of qualification (at ~7 yr mark) and who wants the same rest as the other aging dudes on the crew, is a patently unfair situation to visit upon existing CX/KA pilots.
I recently found myself being sounded-out by one of the Western cadet hopefuls up here for his selection process. He was blissfully unaware of the real costs and realities of living in HK. Yes the job is better than his current one, but when prompted to consider the future for his wife and himself let alone when/if kids arrive, the grave financial situation was a real eye-opener for him. Now, this guy was far from simple, I think the reason he was considering this job with it's low pay scale was due to the popular, long-held misconception that we expats pilots are massively overpaid and that it was still quite affordable to live here without the housing or to just commute. At least he is now aware of the real story and can make a truly informed decision without the rose coloured glasses that CX like to slap on these guys & girls. I do appreciate my job and at the time, I found myself wanting to speak highly of it, but realised that at the pay level on offer, it would be a huge injustice to perpetrate on this guy.
CX is simply trying what every other carrier is doing - cut costs, but at what cost to safety? Airline managers are kidding themselves if they think that cutting competency levels so drastically is going to have little effect on the operation.... or perhaps they do and they justy don't care. The HKCAD needs to recognise it's in an unusual position of having a major carrier with no pilot feeder system, apart from its own Trng dept. The CAD should impose constraints on the no. of cadets CX employs and a ratio of 'cadet to other pilot' on the fltdeck should be set, until the cadet reaches a level of relative competency (perhaps ~7 yrs). After all, Airline Managers are in no way experts on levels of proficiency in a flying operation, and I'm sure the FLTOPS Pilot Managers are hardly going to stick there heads up in defiance, just to get them chopped off. The cadets themselves may have the potential to be highly capable pilots, however, the CX/KA trng system is simply not resourced sufficiently well to cope with trng nothing but low hrs pilots to a standard that would be anywhere near equivalent to extant levels. I believe it is the preservation of standards in new recruits and thus safety, that most of us are truly concerned about, not just preserving our CoS or what we personally consider is a reasonable income for an expat in HK.
Notwithstanding, it can and will get worse...just wait until the MPL (Multi-crew Pilot Licence), comes into being. Those cadets will receive only about 1/3 of the actual flying hrs that our cadets currently get in Adelaide - scary stuff! Does any other profession have to put up with this rubbish?
Disregarding the effects of setting a ridiculously low benchmark for remuneration and the rights and wrongs of age suitability, family sacrifices and 'achieving ones dreams'; lets focus for a minute, not on our personal gripes or beliefs on what is best for us, but what is best for this industry and the traveling public - yes that's right, the reason for us having aviation jobs in the first place!
Given there seems to be no plan to ever recruit experienced pilots again, I believe CX (and KA) have gone dangerously off track in considering that the Cadet Scheme can be the sole source for new joiners to the company. The truth is, cadet schemes are little more than a burden on the trng system and in particular the Capts who need to manage the experience levels (or lack thereof) on the fltdeck. In their relentless push to increase profits, Management are happy to lean even more heavily on the experienced pilots in the company, expecting a safe operation with ever decreasing competency levels. Why? -because Management ultimately won't be held responsible if a fatigued Capt makes a mistake on an appch due to not being able to get adequate rest in the cruise, as he doesn't trust the inexperienced cadet pilot to watch the shop. At KA it's even worse, as the cadet SO's are put straight into the right seat and are the the only safety back-up in one of the most challenging flying environments in the World - China.
This risk has been manageable until now, due to the proportion of cadet pilots being relatively low. Even current Expat 2nd officers often have an abundance of good quality pre-CX experience behind them. It's a charming egalitarian notion to pander to individuals who wish to change career in their late 30's, but the reality of having a mature age inexperienced guy doing OJT, suffering the stress of raising a family on a grossly inadequate income, resentful of the trap that he has fallen into and can't get out of until he's actually got some form of qualification (at ~7 yr mark) and who wants the same rest as the other aging dudes on the crew, is a patently unfair situation to visit upon existing CX/KA pilots.
I recently found myself being sounded-out by one of the Western cadet hopefuls up here for his selection process. He was blissfully unaware of the real costs and realities of living in HK. Yes the job is better than his current one, but when prompted to consider the future for his wife and himself let alone when/if kids arrive, the grave financial situation was a real eye-opener for him. Now, this guy was far from simple, I think the reason he was considering this job with it's low pay scale was due to the popular, long-held misconception that we expats pilots are massively overpaid and that it was still quite affordable to live here without the housing or to just commute. At least he is now aware of the real story and can make a truly informed decision without the rose coloured glasses that CX like to slap on these guys & girls. I do appreciate my job and at the time, I found myself wanting to speak highly of it, but realised that at the pay level on offer, it would be a huge injustice to perpetrate on this guy.
CX is simply trying what every other carrier is doing - cut costs, but at what cost to safety? Airline managers are kidding themselves if they think that cutting competency levels so drastically is going to have little effect on the operation.... or perhaps they do and they justy don't care. The HKCAD needs to recognise it's in an unusual position of having a major carrier with no pilot feeder system, apart from its own Trng dept. The CAD should impose constraints on the no. of cadets CX employs and a ratio of 'cadet to other pilot' on the fltdeck should be set, until the cadet reaches a level of relative competency (perhaps ~7 yrs). After all, Airline Managers are in no way experts on levels of proficiency in a flying operation, and I'm sure the FLTOPS Pilot Managers are hardly going to stick there heads up in defiance, just to get them chopped off. The cadets themselves may have the potential to be highly capable pilots, however, the CX/KA trng system is simply not resourced sufficiently well to cope with trng nothing but low hrs pilots to a standard that would be anywhere near equivalent to extant levels. I believe it is the preservation of standards in new recruits and thus safety, that most of us are truly concerned about, not just preserving our CoS or what we personally consider is a reasonable income for an expat in HK.
Notwithstanding, it can and will get worse...just wait until the MPL (Multi-crew Pilot Licence), comes into being. Those cadets will receive only about 1/3 of the actual flying hrs that our cadets currently get in Adelaide - scary stuff! Does any other profession have to put up with this rubbish?
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To all correspondents
BCF - no, not Beef Chicken or Fish or the Halon extinguisher product.
This is your main enemy; Bean Counters Fraternity.
Unite and combat this "world-wide" festering sore.
This is your main enemy; Bean Counters Fraternity.
Unite and combat this "world-wide" festering sore.
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Pollution V, very well-written and balanced post. I'd agree 100% standards will go down the drain IF that is indeed what CX is doing, training purely low-hour pilots.
But the sad fact is that this is just an attack on conditions, as CX is putting experienced pilots (those with same qualifications as current DESOs, even DEFOs) through a super short "cadet" course (read Finesse course), and voila! You've got yourself "Cadet-Scale" guys with a wealth of experience.
Guys, this is the new C-Scale. Protect Housing for these new guys or the whole A-scale B-scale saga will repeat itself.
But the sad fact is that this is just an attack on conditions, as CX is putting experienced pilots (those with same qualifications as current DESOs, even DEFOs) through a super short "cadet" course (read Finesse course), and voila! You've got yourself "Cadet-Scale" guys with a wealth of experience.
Guys, this is the new C-Scale. Protect Housing for these new guys or the whole A-scale B-scale saga will repeat itself.
