SCMP Cadet Article
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I agree but we wont achieve anything by attacking these people, saying to them dont join wont work as there are 10's of thousands of applicants. we need to somehow lobby the company for a decent deal.
My 2 cents worth now were not debating character.
I think there is a place for the cadet program for applicants with 0- maybe 100hrs. CX puts a lot of money into there taining, so they should have to do a return of service.. 4years?? then they go onto a "HK based package" which includes the housing.
i disagree with the newly developed short course. i think this is the danger to our COS, this is a CX work around for guys that should be hired as direct entry. This is the first fight the AOA should be having, stopping this scheme and go back to direct entry SO hiring. If they insist on this course then the return of service should be less, 2 years then onto the "HK based package"
just my thoughts
My 2 cents worth now were not debating character.
I think there is a place for the cadet program for applicants with 0- maybe 100hrs. CX puts a lot of money into there taining, so they should have to do a return of service.. 4years?? then they go onto a "HK based package" which includes the housing.
i disagree with the newly developed short course. i think this is the danger to our COS, this is a CX work around for guys that should be hired as direct entry. This is the first fight the AOA should be having, stopping this scheme and go back to direct entry SO hiring. If they insist on this course then the return of service should be less, 2 years then onto the "HK based package"
just my thoughts
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Sorry to break it to you Dragon69, but it looks like you are the one who needs to get real. There has been and always will be people who switched careers to get into this field, however way they can, like it or not, that's just how the world works. You may have a problem with that, but you are delusional to think you can dictate whether others can join CX. So long as the cadet programme exist, you can't blame them for joining. As I said, the passion for flying will be always be there, attacking that desire is reprehensible and completely self-defeating and won't fix the issue.
Slamming them won't change things one bit. Do you honestly think the cadets gives a f*** what you think? The problem is not with them, but with the system, the cadet programme. So long as that programme remains as it is, all your objections will go to waste.
Use your head and think about it, Management makes us hate these new cadets, which weakens solidarity, which gives them a stronger hand.
Stop wasting time and energy directing your wrath at the cadets, that's what management wants and it's not going to improve things one bit. Direct your anger at the system.
So, it's time to wise-up Dragonair69, and see what's really going on.
Slamming them won't change things one bit. Do you honestly think the cadets gives a f*** what you think? The problem is not with them, but with the system, the cadet programme. So long as that programme remains as it is, all your objections will go to waste.
Use your head and think about it, Management makes us hate these new cadets, which weakens solidarity, which gives them a stronger hand.
Stop wasting time and energy directing your wrath at the cadets, that's what management wants and it's not going to improve things one bit. Direct your anger at the system.
So, it's time to wise-up Dragonair69, and see what's really going on.
Last edited by Sidewinder123; 20th Aug 2010 at 07:33.
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Ooooohhhh Post number 6!!!!
At 36 just because an easy opportunity becomes available you call that passion for flying or following your dreams!!!! Sounds like you've had things handed to you on a silver platter. Tell you what, pull your head out of your ass and speak to those individuals who've had to do whatever was necessary to pursue their dreams, like getting **** jobs in Africa, the Arctic, etc. Then perhaps you will get an appreciation and understanding of what it means to have passion.
I am strong believer that this cadet scheme should ONLY be open to locals from Hong Kong. They are the ones who have almost no means of pursuing a career in aviation. It is utter BS how the company claims that there isn't enough local talent when there is plenty.
Where the hell do you get your logic from???? Managers don't give a (how did you put it) f*** whether or not you support the international cadets. Furthermore what new cadet is going to fight the overall fight when they view you as a fat cat??
So what are YOU going to do about it???
Also I am not dictating who can and cannot join the cadet scheme. We are debating the folly of this one individual's decision, and the decision of others who have respected, well paid careers and are ready to throw it away with indirect consequence to the profession as a whole.
At 36 just because an easy opportunity becomes available you call that passion for flying or following your dreams!!!! Sounds like you've had things handed to you on a silver platter. Tell you what, pull your head out of your ass and speak to those individuals who've had to do whatever was necessary to pursue their dreams, like getting **** jobs in Africa, the Arctic, etc. Then perhaps you will get an appreciation and understanding of what it means to have passion.
I am strong believer that this cadet scheme should ONLY be open to locals from Hong Kong. They are the ones who have almost no means of pursuing a career in aviation. It is utter BS how the company claims that there isn't enough local talent when there is plenty.
Use your head and think about it, Management makes us hate these new cadets, which weakens solidarity, which gives them a stronger hand.
Stop wasting time and energy directing your wrath at the cadets, that's what management wants and it's not going to improve things one bit. Direct your anger at the system.
Also I am not dictating who can and cannot join the cadet scheme. We are debating the folly of this one individual's decision, and the decision of others who have respected, well paid careers and are ready to throw it away with indirect consequence to the profession as a whole.
Last edited by Dragon69; 20th Aug 2010 at 08:00.
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As I said, seems like you are the one who needs to get the head out of your ass. Life ain't fair. Some are born richer or poorer. Some have better chances and other's don't. Deal with it. If you want things to change just sitting and complaining isn't going to do jack for you. I had crappy jobs flying **** planes here and there before I landed at CX. Why? I took the initiative to change my circumstances. But bitching and moaning is all I hear from you. And you haven't answer my original question, if you are not satisfed with the cadet programme, what are you going to do about it, Dragon69?
Last edited by Sidewinder123; 20th Aug 2010 at 08:12.
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Wow sidewinder123 you must be on a roll today.
And what is it that you are doing here???? If not bitching and moaning about current topics certainly bitching and moaning about us bitching and moaning.!!
Welcome to PPRUNE!
But bitching and moaning is all I hear from you
Welcome to PPRUNE!
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Yeah I guess I have turned into a ppruner, after all.
But, I want to hear some solutions for a change, you know. Or at least suggestions to improve the cadet programme.
But, I want to hear some solutions for a change, you know. Or at least suggestions to improve the cadet programme.
Last edited by Sidewinder123; 20th Aug 2010 at 08:22.
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fly for fun
Anyone consider the fact that maybe they don't NEED to work and are doing it for the fun of it?
That's the kind of guy in a position to not get pushed around by management.
That's the kind of guy in a position to not get pushed around by management.
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I wonder what Dragon69's reaction would be if it were a lowly ground staff / office marketing/accounting staff joining the cadet program? Would D69 being saying the same and trying to dissuade the ground/office staff from "throwing away" his/her career as a ground/office staff?
Seems like some here thinks the piloting profession is an exclusive club and no one, except for the few (well-connected), is welcome to join. Saying that getting accepted to the cadet program with zero experience means compromising safety is alike to bashing the cadet training program.
There's nothing wrong with his two guys pursuing their dreams and passion. If they wanted to "throw away" their previous well-established career and make their family "suffer" ... well, that's their and their family's decision, and doesn't concern anyone else. I salute this two for having the courage to follow their passion, even if that means starting from scratch. Not many of us can have the courage (and means) to do it. They might be already financially secure for the rest of their lives, and don't need to concern with the lowly cadet's salary ... you can call it unfair or whatever ... but that's not anyone else business either.
Seems like some here thinks the piloting profession is an exclusive club and no one, except for the few (well-connected), is welcome to join. Saying that getting accepted to the cadet program with zero experience means compromising safety is alike to bashing the cadet training program.
There's nothing wrong with his two guys pursuing their dreams and passion. If they wanted to "throw away" their previous well-established career and make their family "suffer" ... well, that's their and their family's decision, and doesn't concern anyone else. I salute this two for having the courage to follow their passion, even if that means starting from scratch. Not many of us can have the courage (and means) to do it. They might be already financially secure for the rest of their lives, and don't need to concern with the lowly cadet's salary ... you can call it unfair or whatever ... but that's not anyone else business either.
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Dragon
If as you say this thread is all about an individuals decision to give up a well paid and respected job to join CX then who the hell are you to criticise them?
You don't know these individuals or what their circumstances are so how on earth can you make such critical statements based on the minuscule amount of info you have.
He might only have made a few posts but I have to agree with sindwinder123.
If as you say this thread is all about an individuals decision to give up a well paid and respected job to join CX then who the hell are you to criticise them?
You don't know these individuals or what their circumstances are so how on earth can you make such critical statements based on the minuscule amount of info you have.
He might only have made a few posts but I have to agree with sindwinder123.
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Well I'm very happy for these two gentlemen and their career decisions. I just hope they realize that the new flight time limitations are in the works and the relief pilots will end up being the ones burnt out. After a month of flying through the night with little or no rest I think the novelty of flying big jets will fade quickly!
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What about a BA or QF cadet? As there are many in CX, the most senior Captain in CX is a ex QF cadet and I believe the current director of flight operations was a cadet.
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Everyone has to start somewhere. Just because one doesn't go through the GA path doesn't make him/her less qualify, or less worthy of the cadetship. Seems like the theme here is that "I have 'done my time' in the GA and regionals, therefore all new entrants must 'do their time' as well". I have to side with Sidewinder here, life ain't fair, get use to it.
I also feel it is a 'no, no' to criticize the commitment to and passion for aviation of the cadets with 0hr experience. (You might not even personally know these people.) Just because the cadet has no prior experience doesn't mean he/she is any less committed and less passionate about aviation. They might not have to means and resources to learn flying when they were younger. The area/region they grew up in might not have easy access to GA. They might have to work at jobs that can provide for their needy family first (and now financially secure, they take up on their real passion.) There are just too many reasons. We all have to start somewhere. Give these cadets a break. I bet you were given many breaks in your career before reaching the position you are in now.
I also feel it is a 'no, no' to criticize the commitment to and passion for aviation of the cadets with 0hr experience. (You might not even personally know these people.) Just because the cadet has no prior experience doesn't mean he/she is any less committed and less passionate about aviation. They might not have to means and resources to learn flying when they were younger. The area/region they grew up in might not have easy access to GA. They might have to work at jobs that can provide for their needy family first (and now financially secure, they take up on their real passion.) There are just too many reasons. We all have to start somewhere. Give these cadets a break. I bet you were given many breaks in your career before reaching the position you are in now.
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For those who don't know the real difference between a banker and a pilot, it's the banker who does not have duty time limitations. 
Remember the story of the New York finance lawyer who had a heart attack while at work ? He was checked into hospital but back at his desk 48 hours later, sending numerous emails to clients apologising profusely about his temporary absence and consequential inability to reply timely to their emails.
Remember the story of the New York finance lawyer who had a heart attack while at work ? He was checked into hospital but back at his desk 48 hours later, sending numerous emails to clients apologising profusely about his temporary absence and consequential inability to reply timely to their emails.
There is a distinct lack of activity on the Fragrant Harbour Wannabees Forum lately! Do I detect a certain lack of interest in a housing-allowanceless and commandless career with Cathay Pacific Airways?
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The moaners and whiners here simply disgust me. In case none of you take any interest in what's going on in the world, let me enlighten you - wherever you look, companies are cutting costs, laying off staff and reducing benefits. If you're in Europe rather than Asia it's even worse, if you're 50 or over then you may as well forget any chance of working again.
Trouble is, you and your sort have lived for so long with your heads up your arses that you probably will never understand that there are queues of intelligent, qualified people who would give anything to have the jobs that you have, yet treat with open contempt. You're surprised that no-one wants to hear your views? Well that just shows that you are not only arrogant, but stupid as well.
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Starting Blocks - Or maybe management wind up/wannabe. I see you were booted from another thread for your arrogant remarks(pot:kettle).
Although many comments here are charged with emotion, the underlying feeling is the same - negative. And rightly so. Some people express themselves somewhat differently to how you or even I may find pleasing. That's human nature.
CX has, over the years, slashed here, slashed there and gotten away with virtually no payrises or any other benefits increases for at least the last decade+. In addition, they have gotten quite a productivity increase out of their pilots and possibly more to come for nothing in return. All this while the cost of living, education, housing etc goes up steadily. What people are saying is 'enough is enough'! We all know times have changed, but there is only so much people can take a hit on.
The lack of housing allowance for expats coming to HKG now make this job marginal for many people. It will suit single and unattached people, but those who are married and/or have kids will struggle to have any semblance of a decent lifestyle here without housing allowance or other income means - that is a fact. A starting salary of 30K a month can easily be swallowed up by 15-20k worth of rent for a half decent place to live.
Although many comments here are charged with emotion, the underlying feeling is the same - negative. And rightly so. Some people express themselves somewhat differently to how you or even I may find pleasing. That's human nature.
CX has, over the years, slashed here, slashed there and gotten away with virtually no payrises or any other benefits increases for at least the last decade+. In addition, they have gotten quite a productivity increase out of their pilots and possibly more to come for nothing in return. All this while the cost of living, education, housing etc goes up steadily. What people are saying is 'enough is enough'! We all know times have changed, but there is only so much people can take a hit on.
The lack of housing allowance for expats coming to HKG now make this job marginal for many people. It will suit single and unattached people, but those who are married and/or have kids will struggle to have any semblance of a decent lifestyle here without housing allowance or other income means - that is a fact. A starting salary of 30K a month can easily be swallowed up by 15-20k worth of rent for a half decent place to live.
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Ahhhh....bet(youget)pumped(regularly)5(timesaday)
Still coming out with informative comments and words of wisdom! Turning to personal attack when unable to argue from an informed or logical stance.
So, to allow others to know your platform (information from your previous posts):
1. a guy who went from flying school to 737 because daddy paid for the endorsement and training, then CX as DEFO on the 74F;
2. a guy who advocates the lowered and lowering conditions borne by the cadets in order to allow one group of CX pilots to suffer financial loss so (as you said in your previous posts) as you see it, you don't have to. After all, someone has to take the hit and it's better it's someone else rather than yourself (again, to quote YOU);
3. a guy who is a member of the AoA advocating for the division of rights and financial reward of some for his own personal gain;
4. a guy who offers cadets words of wisdom from how, what and when to even the role of female pilots at CX;
5. a guy who is so busy feathering his own nest at the expense of others (own admission) that can't wait to throw pure and utter abuse on this forum to anyone with a differing opinion;
6. a guy who admitted to having to change his username in case others discovered who he was and hence retribution due previous (work) history.
Still fancy a punch-up? I'd hate to see your man-bag scratched during a scuffle outside Volume..... Then again, daddy will buy you a new one.
To quote yourself: "I will agree with one thing though- My housing allowance as a DEFO makes it all worth it" and yet you push so vehemently for more cadets to take the job and lower the general T's & C's, again, just so you can be comfortable. Again, TO QUOTE FROM YOU.
As I said in my PM to you: you are the lowest of them all. Hiding behind an AOA membership yet advocating and pushing for the lesser T & C's of your colleagues. If people wish to join CX from the CEP then so be it, but to act as you do is at the height of arrogance.
Someone asked for advice a while ago, but you immediately and for no reason jumped on your deluded high horse telling him/her to shove their thumb up their ar$e, and here you want to fight. Wow. What a piece of
you are.
To Francis and Chan: good luck! bet(youget)pumped(regularly)5(timesaday) is thanking you for keeping him in the lifestyle he thinks he deserves.
No, as said before, I don't work for CX but have good friends in senior roles who do. They have to fight day and night against scum like you ruining the airline they worked so hard for and were once proud of.
I just think people should be aware of from which source and the type of charactor this dirt is who wants to punch others for having a different opinion to himself.
bet(youget)pumped(regularly)5(timesaday), if you want to argue me, then do so via a PM. Don't waste the administrators or others time here.
Still coming out with informative comments and words of wisdom! Turning to personal attack when unable to argue from an informed or logical stance.
So, to allow others to know your platform (information from your previous posts):
1. a guy who went from flying school to 737 because daddy paid for the endorsement and training, then CX as DEFO on the 74F;
2. a guy who advocates the lowered and lowering conditions borne by the cadets in order to allow one group of CX pilots to suffer financial loss so (as you said in your previous posts) as you see it, you don't have to. After all, someone has to take the hit and it's better it's someone else rather than yourself (again, to quote YOU);
3. a guy who is a member of the AoA advocating for the division of rights and financial reward of some for his own personal gain;
4. a guy who offers cadets words of wisdom from how, what and when to even the role of female pilots at CX;
5. a guy who is so busy feathering his own nest at the expense of others (own admission) that can't wait to throw pure and utter abuse on this forum to anyone with a differing opinion;
6. a guy who admitted to having to change his username in case others discovered who he was and hence retribution due previous (work) history.
Still fancy a punch-up? I'd hate to see your man-bag scratched during a scuffle outside Volume..... Then again, daddy will buy you a new one.
To quote yourself: "I will agree with one thing though- My housing allowance as a DEFO makes it all worth it" and yet you push so vehemently for more cadets to take the job and lower the general T's & C's, again, just so you can be comfortable. Again, TO QUOTE FROM YOU.
As I said in my PM to you: you are the lowest of them all. Hiding behind an AOA membership yet advocating and pushing for the lesser T & C's of your colleagues. If people wish to join CX from the CEP then so be it, but to act as you do is at the height of arrogance.
Someone asked for advice a while ago, but you immediately and for no reason jumped on your deluded high horse telling him/her to shove their thumb up their ar$e, and here you want to fight. Wow. What a piece of
you are.To Francis and Chan: good luck! bet(youget)pumped(regularly)5(timesaday) is thanking you for keeping him in the lifestyle he thinks he deserves.
No, as said before, I don't work for CX but have good friends in senior roles who do. They have to fight day and night against scum like you ruining the airline they worked so hard for and were once proud of.
I just think people should be aware of from which source and the type of charactor this dirt is who wants to punch others for having a different opinion to himself.
bet(youget)pumped(regularly)5(timesaday), if you want to argue me, then do so via a PM. Don't waste the administrators or others time here.
Last edited by TopTup; 3rd Sep 2010 at 05:30.