SCMP Cadet Article
These guys coming and going in short time can't do anything other than strengthen the position of those of us in window seats who stay. I guess it's reassuring they're not looking for the next generation of cx pilots in rice paddies.
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You lot are sad. It must be awful hating your job, bitching and moaning about it all the time that even in your spare time away from the job you come on here to sh!t on other people's passion and dreams.
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Actually geh065 rest assured if all of us were previously doctors/lawyers/bankers, etc, there would be a for sale sign at the main entrance of Cathay, because there would be no one left to crew the airplanes.
It is idiots like yourself that are completely oblivious to what's happening around you and accept everything for what it is. What a society we live in where we think anything is attainable at the expense of your own family.
It is idiots like yourself that are completely oblivious to what's happening around you and accept everything for what it is. What a society we live in where we think anything is attainable at the expense of your own family.
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A Cathay Spokeswoman said...........
Maria Yu Chi-sum, the airline's corporate communications manager, said, "The airline is expanding quickly."
Now was a "SUPERB" time to join the airline, she said. "During Sars in 2003, we had to park many planes in the desert. Last year, because of the economic downturn, all our staff had to take no-pay leave of two to four weeks. But as the economy has rebounded and our airline is expanding, YOU CAN GET PROMOTED MUCH FASTER NOW THAN BEFORE."
Where do they get these "spokespeople" from?
They couldn't lie straight in bed at night.
They must attend a Cathay course in saying whatever comes into your head with fingers crossed behind your back.
FFS, when will the lies ever end.
A "SUPERB" time to join the airline! For whom may I ask? The cadet or the manager reaping the bonus for screwing another human over.
"YOU CAN GET PROMOTED MUCH FASTER NOW THAN EVER BEFORE"
That's hilarious.
Maria Yu Chi-sum - tell that to the SO's staring down the barrel of 5 years to promotion to JFO and 20 years to command- with a company that refuses to pay contractual bypass pay.
Here's a hint Maria, you should pay a visit to FOP's once in a while and find out a few facts before making up your spin for the media.
Now was a "SUPERB" time to join the airline, she said. "During Sars in 2003, we had to park many planes in the desert. Last year, because of the economic downturn, all our staff had to take no-pay leave of two to four weeks. But as the economy has rebounded and our airline is expanding, YOU CAN GET PROMOTED MUCH FASTER NOW THAN BEFORE."
Where do they get these "spokespeople" from?
They couldn't lie straight in bed at night.
They must attend a Cathay course in saying whatever comes into your head with fingers crossed behind your back.
FFS, when will the lies ever end.
A "SUPERB" time to join the airline! For whom may I ask? The cadet or the manager reaping the bonus for screwing another human over.
"YOU CAN GET PROMOTED MUCH FASTER NOW THAN EVER BEFORE"
That's hilarious.
Maria Yu Chi-sum - tell that to the SO's staring down the barrel of 5 years to promotion to JFO and 20 years to command- with a company that refuses to pay contractual bypass pay.
Here's a hint Maria, you should pay a visit to FOP's once in a while and find out a few facts before making up your spin for the media.
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100K a month down to 30 odd, then in 5 years 60 odd, then in 15 years ( command ) 120 odd, so at retirement I reckon he will only be around 500K worse off overall.
Yep, once the novelty of sitting in the jumpseat eating sandwiches wears off, he might just regret it
Yep, once the novelty of sitting in the jumpseat eating sandwiches wears off, he might just regret it
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try again HKfooey,
Assuming he works until 65 he has 23 years left. A more realistic scenario is S/O 5 years F/O 15 years Cap 3 years. Taking into account the yearly increments the numbers are;
S/O HKD $1.9
F/O HKD $13.0
CAP HKD $3.7
TOTAL HKD $18.6 mil
Assuming an average monthly income of HKD $120k (which is more than conservative) from now until he retires from his current position.
Banker HKD $33.1 mil
That is a whopping HKD $14.5 mil difference, nearly 2 USD million. Or he would have to work half the time (12 years) as a banker to achieve the same amount (23 years) with Cathay. It is just insane!!!
Tell you what, money is not everything, but that amount would have bought this banker way more dreams than the cadet program ever will, not to mention the quality of life he would have been able to provide for his wife and kids.
Assuming he works until 65 he has 23 years left. A more realistic scenario is S/O 5 years F/O 15 years Cap 3 years. Taking into account the yearly increments the numbers are;
S/O HKD $1.9
F/O HKD $13.0
CAP HKD $3.7
TOTAL HKD $18.6 mil
Assuming an average monthly income of HKD $120k (which is more than conservative) from now until he retires from his current position.
Banker HKD $33.1 mil
That is a whopping HKD $14.5 mil difference, nearly 2 USD million. Or he would have to work half the time (12 years) as a banker to achieve the same amount (23 years) with Cathay. It is just insane!!!
Tell you what, money is not everything, but that amount would have bought this banker way more dreams than the cadet program ever will, not to mention the quality of life he would have been able to provide for his wife and kids.
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Dream of Cathay?
Dragon, their dream is to fly, they don't mention having dreamt of flying for CX. After a couple of years here they will be highly employable elsewhere having been trained by the world's greatest. Your calculations assume that they stay, I'm sure we all agree that this experiment will only end one way.
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Fair enough Fly 747, but bear in mind that they are not being employed as DEFO. They are starting as SOs with zero time. How are they going to be highly employable having only S/O time in their log book. They most likely won't be employable until the 2nd year as F/O, in which case that would mean 7 years at Cathay before they can be employed elsewhere. Then they would have to start at the bottom again. Leaving for another airline will only work in their favour assuming that most of the equivalent paying airlines in 7 years time are still expanding like mad and time to command is relatively quick.
If flying is in fact these individuals' 'dreams', are they flying privately to at least 'give it a go' before sacrificing all for a potential life of staring at a sky the color of Oprah Winfrey's bum all night, jet lag, shouting at Delhi Control, crappy hotels and aggressive management?
There are some stunning high-performance modern light aircraft out there, warbirds, aerobatic aircraft, even some of the 'light sports' are fantastic if they are on a budget, and there are places such as Australia, NZ and the States to go and fly them, even if it's only a few times a year. Now that's something to 'dream' about...and as for first solo, they'll never forget it.
And before you ask 'why does Captain Dart fly airliners then', it is because he is not a banker or doctor; it's so he can fly light aircaft for fun, and he commenced his airline career in the long-gone 'good old days'; cadets joining on current conditions would be lucky if they could afford a motorized parachute.
There are some stunning high-performance modern light aircraft out there, warbirds, aerobatic aircraft, even some of the 'light sports' are fantastic if they are on a budget, and there are places such as Australia, NZ and the States to go and fly them, even if it's only a few times a year. Now that's something to 'dream' about...and as for first solo, they'll never forget it.
And before you ask 'why does Captain Dart fly airliners then', it is because he is not a banker or doctor; it's so he can fly light aircaft for fun, and he commenced his airline career in the long-gone 'good old days'; cadets joining on current conditions would be lucky if they could afford a motorized parachute.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 19th Aug 2010 at 08:14.
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It is idiots like yourself that are completely oblivious to what's happening around you and accept everything for what it is. What a society we live in where we think anything is attainable at the expense of your own family.
We all have a bit of a moan every now and then but I just like to see the glass half full sometimes and sh!tting on the dreams of budding young aviatiors is most definately where I draw the line. Make them aware of the real terms and conditions for sure, but I will always encourage a youngster to persue aviation if that is their passion because money cannot replace that.
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geh065,
Are you involved with your local flying club?? Most people that I know that have a passion for flying are in some way or another involved with GA and get more satisfaction out of flying light airplanes than flying for Cathay. Everyone but you it seems sees this job as what it is, just a job! Actually if I could slide into another career earning 3/4 of what I now earn I will happily leave. This job is so regulated, controlled, monitored that there is no longer any job satisfaction, not to mention that morale is so low that there isn't any camaraderie left anymore.
Furthermore we are not talking about a "youngster" or a "budding young aviator", we are talking about a 41 year old individual at the peak of his banking career with a family. If he were a close friend of mine I would try anything and everything to dissuade him from this cadet scheme. you can be naive and foolish when you're young, but being naive and foolish in your 40s is plain stupid.
This is not a dream of accomplishing a challenging feat like sailing around the world, it is a dream to tick the box of having been an airline pilot. OK done that now what???
Are you involved with your local flying club?? Most people that I know that have a passion for flying are in some way or another involved with GA and get more satisfaction out of flying light airplanes than flying for Cathay. Everyone but you it seems sees this job as what it is, just a job! Actually if I could slide into another career earning 3/4 of what I now earn I will happily leave. This job is so regulated, controlled, monitored that there is no longer any job satisfaction, not to mention that morale is so low that there isn't any camaraderie left anymore.
Furthermore we are not talking about a "youngster" or a "budding young aviator", we are talking about a 41 year old individual at the peak of his banking career with a family. If he were a close friend of mine I would try anything and everything to dissuade him from this cadet scheme. you can be naive and foolish when you're young, but being naive and foolish in your 40s is plain stupid.
This is not a dream of accomplishing a challenging feat like sailing around the world, it is a dream to tick the box of having been an airline pilot. OK done that now what???
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Sorry to sidetrack here but isn't he 36 not 41? So that's 29 years of flying ahead of him if he sticks with it to 65. I personally think there's more courage involved in his decision than stupidity as some would suggest. Come on guys it's a great job even if it meant eating sandwiches for the initial 4 years. After a couple of years as FO he'd have enough hours to go anywhere should he wishes to. For a guy with investment knowledge and a good wife, he's got more of a chance of making a bit more on the side and provide for his family well enough than some.
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Interesting stories.
I am just wondering how someone can have the personality to be sucessfull in the greedy egoistic world of investment banking and then be a good companion in a flight deck.
Considering the guys next to me at work, I enjoy sharing a day with nearly all of them tremendously.
But they all lack the ellbow-mentality you need to become sucessfull in banking life.
As was said before, something seemed to have gone very wrong here in selection.
I am just wondering how someone can have the personality to be sucessfull in the greedy egoistic world of investment banking and then be a good companion in a flight deck.
Considering the guys next to me at work, I enjoy sharing a day with nearly all of them tremendously.
But they all lack the ellbow-mentality you need to become sucessfull in banking life.
As was said before, something seemed to have gone very wrong here in selection.
Criticizise the company policy for hiring cadets criticizie the package and what ultimately it will do to our package but unless you know the individual shut the #@#@@#$ up
Last edited by flyingkiwi; 20th Aug 2010 at 02:15.
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Maybe, actually it was a stonger colourless liquid, but I dont like personal sledging when people havnt even meet the person concerned.
It seems like these guys are being treated almost like those during the recruitment ban yet the AOA has not even said anything about them joining.
As for the decision it is their personal joice, right or wrong, in this guys case working 12-13hr days monday to friday would be a compelling reason to look to change vocation. But at the end of the day like the rest of us its his choice and if it was such a bad decision maybe you should ask him if you could have his old job..
It seems like these guys are being treated almost like those during the recruitment ban yet the AOA has not even said anything about them joining.
As for the decision it is their personal joice, right or wrong, in this guys case working 12-13hr days monday to friday would be a compelling reason to look to change vocation. But at the end of the day like the rest of us its his choice and if it was such a bad decision maybe you should ask him if you could have his old job..
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I've been monitoring this forum for a while and generally won't comment unless there something I feel strongly about, like this issue here.
I have to say I agree with flyingkiwi and geh065, you guys bitching on those two cadets are crossing the line. So maybe they are giving up their lucrative careers for far less pay and benefit, but it's their choice. Just because some of you guys are starting to regret your career choices dosen't mean they will regret theirs. And in case you haven't read the article, both were tough choices to make, they did'nt decide on a whim to become pilots. Besides, one is in his early 30's and the second is in his mid-30's, they aren't that old, we aren't talking about someone in his late 40's and 50's where a career change is more difficult.
With pilots like you attacking each other, no wonder Management finds it so easy to deal with us. In fact, that what Management wants, us attacking each other.
Bottom line, we are like to bitch and moan, you can say a pilot career ain't that glamourous or CX isn't really the best choice (on that particular issue I think we can agree), but attacking someone's passion and desire to fly is hitting below the belt and I can't let that pass.
I have to say I agree with flyingkiwi and geh065, you guys bitching on those two cadets are crossing the line. So maybe they are giving up their lucrative careers for far less pay and benefit, but it's their choice. Just because some of you guys are starting to regret your career choices dosen't mean they will regret theirs. And in case you haven't read the article, both were tough choices to make, they did'nt decide on a whim to become pilots. Besides, one is in his early 30's and the second is in his mid-30's, they aren't that old, we aren't talking about someone in his late 40's and 50's where a career change is more difficult.
With pilots like you attacking each other, no wonder Management finds it so easy to deal with us. In fact, that what Management wants, us attacking each other.
Bottom line, we are like to bitch and moan, you can say a pilot career ain't that glamourous or CX isn't really the best choice (on that particular issue I think we can agree), but attacking someone's passion and desire to fly is hitting below the belt and I can't let that pass.
Last edited by Sidewinder123; 20th Aug 2010 at 04:06.
To all the people who believe the love of flying should get you into the cadet program and in the pointy end of cx aircraft.
What about all of those pilots who took the GA route, actually flew an aircraft hands on and whose dream was also to work for an airline. They can't get into cx anymore because of the cadet program and people like the article mentioned willing to take the role. Is that fair. While i'm not attacking these people as individuals, I am pissed off that in a few yrs my T&C's will be on the line because cx can attract individuals who were earning quite a bit more, to take a pay cut and work for peanuts.
I think this is the point that most of us are trying to get across in objection to the cadet program.
What about all of those pilots who took the GA route, actually flew an aircraft hands on and whose dream was also to work for an airline. They can't get into cx anymore because of the cadet program and people like the article mentioned willing to take the role. Is that fair
. While i'm not attacking these people as individuals, I am pissed off that in a few yrs my T&C's will be on the line because cx can attract individuals who were earning quite a bit more, to take a pay cut and work for peanuts. I think this is the point that most of us are trying to get across in objection to the cadet program.
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I've been monitoring this forum for a while and generally won't comment unless there something I feel strongly about, like this issue here.
Get real!
With pilots like you attacking each other, no wonder Management finds it so easy to deal with us. In fact, that what Management wants, us attacking each other.
Do you think it is coincidence that this article is published with the start of pay rise negotiations? It basically sends the message to the public that anyone can become an airline pilot in 14 months, and that our worth is really only a third of a doctor's and banker's salary. All you need is that childhood dream of becoming an airline pilot. Go on tick the box and don't worry about the sub standard salary package.
Yes FlyingKiwi, right or wrong in the end it is his choice, this is a forum and we are all free to state our opinions. Future candidates need to hear both sides of the story ( no matter how unpleasant we come across), not just the fairy tale stories. However, you are incorrect when you say criticize the company for offering the package. When you persuade friends of yours to join on this package you are actually degrading your own.
Assuming he never left his previous post, how would he feel if I went to his employer and said; Listen I've always wanted to work in the banking industry, just provide me with 14 months of training at no salary, and then I will agree to work for a third of what you pay these other guys. How secure do you think his package and employment will be???
As someone already stated, there is only one way this experiment will end. Enough said on this topic, just hope he doesn't eventually come after you with a baseball bat......sorry cricket bat!