SCMP Cadet Article
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SCMP Cadet Article
What are they thinking????
It's easier to be a Cathay cadet but there's less money in flying
Elaine Yau
Updated on Aug 18, 2010 Nelson Chang Way-man and Oscar Francis were members of two very different professions but they had one thing in common: a love of flying.It led the doctor and investment banker to quit their highly paid jobs and join Cathay Pacific Airways' cadet pilot scheme last year with an initial pay potential of about a third of their previous earnings.
Both said their love of flying overcame any financial concerns and the chance to make a living from it was a dream comes true.
Yet while they may be about to realise their dream, others who have been through the same scheme are far less happy. The reason: the terms and conditions for pilots have been changed. A local captain said that after long-standing friction about unequal terms for locals and expatriates, Cathay, fearing action under Hong Kong's racial discrimination law, has stopped offering a housing allowance - not available to local staff - to all new recruits.
The Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association, whose membership includes many of Cathay's locally hired and expatriate pilots, said the change was implemented in response to pilots' complaints about the disparity in pay between expatriate and local pilots. But instead of equalising benefits upwards, the bar has been lowered.
A union spokesman, a local captain who has worked for the airline for 14 years and requested anonymity, said the change was initiated after the Race Discrimination Ordinance came into effect last year.
"Now everybody, irrespective of your nationality or how many flying hours you have clocked up before you join Cathay, is employed on local terms. Instead of raising the salary of locals to achieve pay parity, they now shrink the pay packages of expatriates," he said.
It is an issue that will affect both Francis, a Briton, and Chang - both are classed as locals because they have Hong Kong ID cards. They will have to get by on the salary alone. But expatriate cadets are now also out of luck on housing allowances.
Francis and Chang were among the first batch of 61 cadet pilots recruited by Cathay after it loosened the entry requirement for its in-house training programme last year in a bid to attract more high-quality applicants to cope with expansion.
Where once the programme was open only to Hong Kong ID card holders, now anyone can join regardless of nationality provided they agree to settle in Hong Kong and view it as their permanent base.
Francis, 36, worked for Morgan Stanley as a legal and compliance officer. In 1999, he applied to British Airways but was rejected. "Before that, I wanted to join the Royal Air Force, but I was hit by a car and hurt my hip in 1996, which made me medically unfit to join the force," he said.
Francis, who was earning about HK$100,000 a month when he left the bank in 2009, will bring his wife and two children to settle in Hong Kong. He said taking up the Cathay job had been a difficult decision to make.
"I got no pay during the 14 months' training," he said. "I discussed with my wife how to do it. My wife did a course on English teaching while I got my training. She will teach English after we move to Hong Kong. I owe her everything. I know she has had a very difficult year."
Chang, a 31-year-old University of Hong Kong medical school graduate, also married with two children, was earning about HK$70,000 a month when he decided to change jobs.
"My wife is also a doctor and we have savings so we are able to do it," he said.
While 61 cadet pilots were recruited last year, only 36 and 19 joined the training programme in 2008 and 2007 respectively. But though the numbers may have grown through restrictions being eased, the cut in benefits is likely to continue to rankle.
Expatriates comprise about 50 per cent of the airline's more than 2,000 pilots.
Locally hired pilots, trained for 14 months in Adelaide at a cost funded by Cathay of HK$1.2 million each, number around 300. Eventually, they receive a HK$24,000 monthly housing allowance, but only when they reach the rank of captain. From second officer, becoming a captain usually takes at least 10 years.
Maria Yu Chi-sum, the airline's corporate communications manager, said, "The airline is expanding quickly."
Now was a "superb" time to join the airline, she said. "During Sars in 2003, we had to park many planes in the desert. Last year, because of the economic downturn, all our staff had to take no-pay leave of two to four weeks. But as the economy has rebounded and our airline is expanding, you can get promoted much faster now than before."
Not all the pilots agreed. The local pilot who spoke for the union said the change to the benefits structure could lead to a high turnover rate when the economy was good.
"At international airlines like Qantas and British Airways, just one salary package is applied to everybody. Everyone wanted to stay put during the economic downturn. But many local pilots like me, after having endured the unfair salary treatment for so many years, are considering switching to another airline when the economy picks up," he said.
It's easier to be a Cathay cadet but there's less money in flying
Elaine Yau
Updated on Aug 18, 2010 Nelson Chang Way-man and Oscar Francis were members of two very different professions but they had one thing in common: a love of flying.It led the doctor and investment banker to quit their highly paid jobs and join Cathay Pacific Airways' cadet pilot scheme last year with an initial pay potential of about a third of their previous earnings.
Both said their love of flying overcame any financial concerns and the chance to make a living from it was a dream comes true.
Yet while they may be about to realise their dream, others who have been through the same scheme are far less happy. The reason: the terms and conditions for pilots have been changed. A local captain said that after long-standing friction about unequal terms for locals and expatriates, Cathay, fearing action under Hong Kong's racial discrimination law, has stopped offering a housing allowance - not available to local staff - to all new recruits.
The Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association, whose membership includes many of Cathay's locally hired and expatriate pilots, said the change was implemented in response to pilots' complaints about the disparity in pay between expatriate and local pilots. But instead of equalising benefits upwards, the bar has been lowered.
A union spokesman, a local captain who has worked for the airline for 14 years and requested anonymity, said the change was initiated after the Race Discrimination Ordinance came into effect last year.
"Now everybody, irrespective of your nationality or how many flying hours you have clocked up before you join Cathay, is employed on local terms. Instead of raising the salary of locals to achieve pay parity, they now shrink the pay packages of expatriates," he said.
It is an issue that will affect both Francis, a Briton, and Chang - both are classed as locals because they have Hong Kong ID cards. They will have to get by on the salary alone. But expatriate cadets are now also out of luck on housing allowances.
Francis and Chang were among the first batch of 61 cadet pilots recruited by Cathay after it loosened the entry requirement for its in-house training programme last year in a bid to attract more high-quality applicants to cope with expansion.
Where once the programme was open only to Hong Kong ID card holders, now anyone can join regardless of nationality provided they agree to settle in Hong Kong and view it as their permanent base.
Francis, 36, worked for Morgan Stanley as a legal and compliance officer. In 1999, he applied to British Airways but was rejected. "Before that, I wanted to join the Royal Air Force, but I was hit by a car and hurt my hip in 1996, which made me medically unfit to join the force," he said.
Francis, who was earning about HK$100,000 a month when he left the bank in 2009, will bring his wife and two children to settle in Hong Kong. He said taking up the Cathay job had been a difficult decision to make.
"I got no pay during the 14 months' training," he said. "I discussed with my wife how to do it. My wife did a course on English teaching while I got my training. She will teach English after we move to Hong Kong. I owe her everything. I know she has had a very difficult year."
Chang, a 31-year-old University of Hong Kong medical school graduate, also married with two children, was earning about HK$70,000 a month when he decided to change jobs.
"My wife is also a doctor and we have savings so we are able to do it," he said.
While 61 cadet pilots were recruited last year, only 36 and 19 joined the training programme in 2008 and 2007 respectively. But though the numbers may have grown through restrictions being eased, the cut in benefits is likely to continue to rankle.
Expatriates comprise about 50 per cent of the airline's more than 2,000 pilots.
Locally hired pilots, trained for 14 months in Adelaide at a cost funded by Cathay of HK$1.2 million each, number around 300. Eventually, they receive a HK$24,000 monthly housing allowance, but only when they reach the rank of captain. From second officer, becoming a captain usually takes at least 10 years.
Maria Yu Chi-sum, the airline's corporate communications manager, said, "The airline is expanding quickly."
Now was a "superb" time to join the airline, she said. "During Sars in 2003, we had to park many planes in the desert. Last year, because of the economic downturn, all our staff had to take no-pay leave of two to four weeks. But as the economy has rebounded and our airline is expanding, you can get promoted much faster now than before."
Not all the pilots agreed. The local pilot who spoke for the union said the change to the benefits structure could lead to a high turnover rate when the economy was good.
"At international airlines like Qantas and British Airways, just one salary package is applied to everybody. Everyone wanted to stay put during the economic downturn. But many local pilots like me, after having endured the unfair salary treatment for so many years, are considering switching to another airline when the economy picks up," he said.
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But many local pilots like me, after having endured the unfair salary treatment for so many years, are considering switching to another airline when the economy picks up," he said.
Nothing against improving the salary package of LEPs, but to use discrimination and unfair treatment as a motive is utter crap and only divides the two groups even more.
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Maria Yu Chi-sum, the airline's corporate communications manager, said, "The airline is expanding quickly."
Now was a "superb" time to join the airline, she said. "During Sars in 2003, we had to park many planes in the desert. Last year, because of the economic downturn, all our staff had to take no-pay leave of two to four weeks. But as the economy has rebounded and our airline is expanding, you can get promoted much faster now than before.
Now was a "superb" time to join the airline, she said. "During Sars in 2003, we had to park many planes in the desert. Last year, because of the economic downturn, all our staff had to take no-pay leave of two to four weeks. But as the economy has rebounded and our airline is expanding, you can get promoted much faster now than before.
S/O's currently taking +4 hrs to upgrade & it's only going to get worse.
Did Miss Chi-sum miss the memo containing all the reasons why time to command is going to be much longer than 10yrs.
1) RA65
2) New FTL's designed to reduce crewing levels
3) Freighter aircraft being sold to Air China Cargo
etc etc
Last edited by Harbour Dweller; 18th Aug 2010 at 04:28.
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There is obviously no mental checks involved when Cathay hires new cadets. Seems like Francis and Chang are in dire need of a reality check, yes those jets are really shiny but it very fast gets old being jet-lagged all the time and flying cargo around Asia when your body wants to sleep, and you thought you would have exotic layovers in New York and Paris, and especially at the offered pay....
I hope Francis' wife is ready to take on a second job which will be required since they plan to live an expat life in Hong Kong with a family on a Second Officer salary for 4 years with no housing allowance! Or maybe she should just learn Arabic right away instead, so she is ready for the move they will be making to Emirates after a couple of years....
I hope Francis' wife is ready to take on a second job which will be required since they plan to live an expat life in Hong Kong with a family on a Second Officer salary for 4 years with no housing allowance! Or maybe she should just learn Arabic right away instead, so she is ready for the move they will be making to Emirates after a couple of years....
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Oh yes Mr Cathay I really have wanted to be a pilot my whole life, really thats why you became a Dr or an investment banker. At least we are getting the right candidates.
Can't wait to see Mr Travis' next article in 3 years time.
Can't wait to see Mr Travis' next article in 3 years time.
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Investment banker and doctor?
They must be out of their friggin' mind...
I wonder how long it'll take them to be crying for their old jobs back?
Well, at least they have something to fall back on, unlike stupid old me who thought aviation was going to be a lifetime bread and butter provider.
They must be out of their friggin' mind...
I wonder how long it'll take them to be crying for their old jobs back?
Well, at least they have something to fall back on, unlike stupid old me who thought aviation was going to be a lifetime bread and butter provider.
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Second Careers
Why should they give up their former professions? The Investment Banker now has access to 2,000 plus potential clients, whereas the Physician can become avmed qualified and charge a handsome fee for conducting aircrew medicals on his days off. With the number of hypochondriacs amongst the cabin crews, he could hold surgeries in his hotel room on layovers. Perhaps they are not so stupid.
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Rod Von Eddington
How arrogant are you to say that no person should try to fulfil there dream to be a pilot or are you the only one allowed. I know this person very well and infact he came to me and asked about which flying school he should train at so that he could do the GA route into the industry, i recommended the cadet program as a great option for him as it will save 4-10 years of GA hardship. BTW his wife was prepaired to support him through GA so it shows what kind of women she is, i think there are a lot of CX pilots out there that would appreciate having a wife so supportive.
Yes the cadet program and Conditions are not ideal but in his shoes when he is deciding to pursue his dream the cadet program is a whole lot more attractive than the current GA industry.
Try having a look around at current oppurtunities for someone with 0hrs. They are looking at 10+ years till they touch a jet, most of this time is on $0 salary. So no they are not out of there mind they are just unlucky enough to have missed the good times that we were lucky enough to have been in time to enjoy.
How arrogant are you to say that no person should try to fulfil there dream to be a pilot or are you the only one allowed. I know this person very well and infact he came to me and asked about which flying school he should train at so that he could do the GA route into the industry, i recommended the cadet program as a great option for him as it will save 4-10 years of GA hardship. BTW his wife was prepaired to support him through GA so it shows what kind of women she is, i think there are a lot of CX pilots out there that would appreciate having a wife so supportive.
Yes the cadet program and Conditions are not ideal but in his shoes when he is deciding to pursue his dream the cadet program is a whole lot more attractive than the current GA industry.
Try having a look around at current oppurtunities for someone with 0hrs. They are looking at 10+ years till they touch a jet, most of this time is on $0 salary. So no they are not out of there mind they are just unlucky enough to have missed the good times that we were lucky enough to have been in time to enjoy.
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Hopefully the investment bankers and doctors of this world have accumulated enough wealth to let them survive the lean years. Better still, and to show their commitment, why not use that money to get CPL and frozen ATPL and then apply as a pre-qualified cadet ? Makes the story from stethoscope to sidestick a little more convincing.
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They must be out of their friggin' mind...
I wonder how long it'll take them to be crying for their old jobs back?
I wonder how long it'll take them to be crying for their old jobs back?
I don't know Chang and Francis personally but judging from where they were in life before they chose to make a career change, I'd say it would be stupid to assume they were totally uninformed about what they were getting themselves into. You don't become an investment banker or doctor without a decent amount of common sense and foresight.
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all well and good but as any of us diect entry types will atestify to, to get to direct entry level takes 10 + years of hardship, if given the chance to circumvent that especially if already in your 30s off course you would take the oppurtunity like these guys have.
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Nothing wrong with pursuing your dreams, but if they are going through with this because of their "love of flying" boy are they in for a big disappointment once the novelty wears off! After all these years why did they not at the very least pursue a PPL??
Interesting how in the past you had to demonstrate dedication and commitment to pursuing an aviation career before being accepted, now it seems you only have to show that you can financially cope with living in HKG.
Interesting how in the past you had to demonstrate dedication and commitment to pursuing an aviation career before being accepted, now it seems you only have to show that you can financially cope with living in HKG.
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I sympathize with anyone who really wants to fly. In fact, I have probably given up the best years of my life, a decade of income, the most of my liver and a train wreck of relationships while pursuing it. And I have flown my ass off. Almost literally, several times.
But someone should inform these gentlemen that what they are now embarking on has nothing to do with flying in the passionate term. Whatever they think flying is, this is not it. This is not where you start your career; this is where you finish it. This is where you give up any passion you once had in exchange for cold, hard cash. But cash, it seems, they already have.
The last thing any long-haul carrier needs from its Cadets is a passion for flying. They are the ones who become twisted and disillusioned as the realization dawns on them that the peak of their flying career was doing stalls on a Cessna 150, and whatever dreams brought them to their first solo will remain just that; dreams.
Some advice, gentlemen. Stay where you are and purchase an airplane instead.
But someone should inform these gentlemen that what they are now embarking on has nothing to do with flying in the passionate term. Whatever they think flying is, this is not it. This is not where you start your career; this is where you finish it. This is where you give up any passion you once had in exchange for cold, hard cash. But cash, it seems, they already have.
The last thing any long-haul carrier needs from its Cadets is a passion for flying. They are the ones who become twisted and disillusioned as the realization dawns on them that the peak of their flying career was doing stalls on a Cessna 150, and whatever dreams brought them to their first solo will remain just that; dreams.
Some advice, gentlemen. Stay where you are and purchase an airplane instead.
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So what has happend to flight experience commensurate with age? When airlines start hiring "pilots" in the midst of their midlife crises, then you know they have hit rock bottom. Scraping the bottom of the barrel. This is what the US regional airlines do, sometimes with disaterous results. The Gulfstream Airlines programme in South Florida comes to mind with magazine commercials depicting the zero-to-hero making his transformation from construction worker to airline "pilot". Face it gentlemen, the days of this being a special career are decidedly over..
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I am stunned by you guys, the most important thing from any pilot is passion to fly maybe you guys should be the ones looking elsewhere.
And BTW he did have a ppl, but didnt you always dream of flying for an airline...
Stop fighting the guys your problem should be with management and the system not thses guys trying to make a break.
I ask any of you guys to honestly say that you would have turned down the cadet program when you were starting out with 0- 50hrs. especially having missed out on say the airforce to to some reason like a recient car accident. If you say you would turn it down i know you are full of BS. I wouldnt of at that point you woud take any flying job offered.
And BTW he did have a ppl, but didnt you always dream of flying for an airline...
Stop fighting the guys your problem should be with management and the system not thses guys trying to make a break.
I ask any of you guys to honestly say that you would have turned down the cadet program when you were starting out with 0- 50hrs. especially having missed out on say the airforce to to some reason like a recient car accident. If you say you would turn it down i know you are full of BS. I wouldnt of at that point you woud take any flying job offered.
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To be fair it says he was a legal & compliance officer. They are the people, usually vainly, trying to keep the front office bankers on the straight and narrow. Or, if they are very cynical, telling the front office what is the minimum they can get away with and stay on straight and narrow... I guess Q&A/ Standards & Quality would be airline equivalent
A very frustrating role in a bank, the rest of the bank regards you as a sneak who is trying to stop them getting rich and also as someone who couldn't cut it as a "real" banker
A very frustrating role in a bank, the rest of the bank regards you as a sneak who is trying to stop them getting rich and also as someone who couldn't cut it as a "real" banker
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the most important thing from any pilot is passion to fly
I ask any of you guys to honestly say that you would have turned down the cadet program when you were starting out with 0- 50hrs
There is no way that someone in their mid 40s that had an established career is going to last five years sitting on the jump seat as an SO earning peanuts. Sooner or later the novelty will wear off and they will leave having ticked the box under airline pilot. This only serves to cheapen our profession!
Can't help but think that this is nothing more than a selfish attitude, fits a banker's profile perfectly. So if his wife tells him that it was her dream of becoming a Hollywood actress, will he give up everything, become a waiter in some run down diner in LAX and support her??
Last edited by Dragon69; 19th Aug 2010 at 01:44.