X Oasis crew applying to AOA
Thread Starter
X Oasis crew applying to AOA
Seems the Oasis re-joiners want to join the AOA to?
A certain CN with the initails M.M. is on the list of applicants.
I say "NO WAY"
And I will be writing to the AOA objecting to this individual joining.
A certain CN with the initails M.M. is on the list of applicants.
I say "NO WAY"
And I will be writing to the AOA objecting to this individual joining.
Thread Starter
WHAT? you must be kidding?
If I need to spell out what the Oasis crew have done to "help" our COS and the upgrades of my fellow Pilot's then you are DUMB.
Or just another selfish Pilot looking out for #1
And yes I too flew with MM a number of years ago, back THEN he was a man of principles and morals looking out for his fellow Pilot's especially the junior ones, I'm not too sure now.
If I need to spell out what the Oasis crew have done to "help" our COS and the upgrades of my fellow Pilot's then you are DUMB.
Or just another selfish Pilot looking out for #1
And yes I too flew with MM a number of years ago, back THEN he was a man of principles and morals looking out for his fellow Pilot's especially the junior ones, I'm not too sure now.
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ACMS,
I totally understand your point, but don't you think the more people that join the AOA, the better? You will be hard pressed to find any pilot that isn't looking out for #1 first. The sooner we all stand together, the sooner we'll achieve something. Regardless of our individual missteps.
I totally understand your point, but don't you think the more people that join the AOA, the better? You will be hard pressed to find any pilot that isn't looking out for #1 first. The sooner we all stand together, the sooner we'll achieve something. Regardless of our individual missteps.
Thread Starter
I joined on the B scale WITH THE BLESSING OF THE AOA.
A Scalers didn't object to the introduction of the B scale and THAT'S A FACT.
Since then, the B SCALERS have voted against accepting conditions LESS than B Scale. DEFO in Aust for one.
I can sleep straight in my bed KNOWING that although I might have failed at least I TRIED, which is more the majority of any A scalers can say.
So yes, there is a difference.
It's not me doing the companies dirty work.
It's the WHOLE Pilot group LETTING it happen in the first place.
Guys/Girls doing their own deals without the blessing of the membership DEGRADE/UNDERMINE our whole bargaining position and ultimately SCREW EVERYONE.
A Scalers didn't object to the introduction of the B scale and THAT'S A FACT.
Since then, the B SCALERS have voted against accepting conditions LESS than B Scale. DEFO in Aust for one.
I can sleep straight in my bed KNOWING that although I might have failed at least I TRIED, which is more the majority of any A scalers can say.
So yes, there is a difference.
It's not me doing the companies dirty work.
It's the WHOLE Pilot group LETTING it happen in the first place.
Guys/Girls doing their own deals without the blessing of the membership DEGRADE/UNDERMINE our whole bargaining position and ultimately SCREW EVERYONE.
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Ref last comment ref A&B scalers
Most of us pilots employed on the common jet salary pre 93,
couldn't imagine that other aircrew wishing to join cx could
even contemplate joining so on the ludicrous low terms being
offered, those terms now known as B, or for the (relatively)
lucky first few, B+.
Had the B scalers not accepted those terms, then it is unlikely
there would have been a B scale, or C scale, or F scale or O
scale, and the list goes on.
However, this subject has generally been done to death in forums
past, and is normally justified by the B scalers saying, "well if I
hadn't joined, someone else would have". Cant be proven either
way, but unlikely to have succeeded if no one joined. History
generally shows that when a company wants something and only
offers X, but gets no takers, then if they still really want something,
and at the time, they still NEEDED pilots, then they offer X plus
some more. Pilots like numbers, so it should have been: X+more=A.
Problem solved, ............until people accepted X.
So for individuals to blame A scalers for the B scale salary THEY chose to accept, is a bit rich.
Back on subject, whilst I dont agree with the companies blatent hiring
of DEC's, however it's disguised, I believe the more people in the union,
the better its representation and consequent bargaining power. So if
the spineless quitters who didn't want to pay the 5% to their fallen
colleagues can be welcomed back with open arms, why not the ex
Oasis guys?
Brgds to all.
couldn't imagine that other aircrew wishing to join cx could
even contemplate joining so on the ludicrous low terms being
offered, those terms now known as B, or for the (relatively)
lucky first few, B+.
Had the B scalers not accepted those terms, then it is unlikely
there would have been a B scale, or C scale, or F scale or O
scale, and the list goes on.
However, this subject has generally been done to death in forums
past, and is normally justified by the B scalers saying, "well if I
hadn't joined, someone else would have". Cant be proven either
way, but unlikely to have succeeded if no one joined. History
generally shows that when a company wants something and only
offers X, but gets no takers, then if they still really want something,
and at the time, they still NEEDED pilots, then they offer X plus
some more. Pilots like numbers, so it should have been: X+more=A.
Problem solved, ............until people accepted X.
So for individuals to blame A scalers for the B scale salary THEY chose to accept, is a bit rich.
Back on subject, whilst I dont agree with the companies blatent hiring
of DEC's, however it's disguised, I believe the more people in the union,
the better its representation and consequent bargaining power. So if
the spineless quitters who didn't want to pay the 5% to their fallen
colleagues can be welcomed back with open arms, why not the ex
Oasis guys?
Brgds to all.
Last edited by mephisto88; 1st Sep 2008 at 12:50.
Thread Starter
Which came first the Chicken or the Egg.
Point is that the members of the AOA at that time didn't lift a finger to stop the degradation of their junior Pilot's Terms and Conditions.
Most if not all current members think differently.
And it's a funny coincidence that those accepting the degradation today were those that didn't object yesterday.
mmmmmmmm
Point is that the members of the AOA at that time didn't lift a finger to stop the degradation of their junior Pilot's Terms and Conditions.
Most if not all current members think differently.
And it's a funny coincidence that those accepting the degradation today were those that didn't object yesterday.
mmmmmmmm
Thread Starter
As a matter of fact a vote was held by the AOA on the acceptance of the new pay scales for DEFO's in OZ, this occured about 2 years ago. NC where are you?
At that time the overwhelming majority voted to reject the change in our COS for new joiners.
Now read that last sentance again, slowly for those of advancing years.
Unfortunatly the company chose to impose new coditions on new joiners, tut tut. But at least we tried
Now maybe the company might have acted a bit differently if we had more members at that time.
Food for thought hey.
At that time the overwhelming majority voted to reject the change in our COS for new joiners.
Now read that last sentance again, slowly for those of advancing years.
Unfortunatly the company chose to impose new coditions on new joiners, tut tut. But at least we tried
Now maybe the company might have acted a bit differently if we had more members at that time.
Food for thought hey.
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Jizz
Your conclusions seen counter-intuitive to me.
Why would MM and GO and all the Oasis hires not want to improve COS?
The fact the company re-employed them may be a bone of contention but the fact of the matter is they are back.
Some of you guys really don't get it...if you want the AOA to continue to be an insignificant sideline... then apartheid is the way to go.
Anyone who wants to join should be encouraged.
Your conclusions seen counter-intuitive to me.
Why would MM and GO and all the Oasis hires not want to improve COS?
The fact the company re-employed them may be a bone of contention but the fact of the matter is they are back.
Some of you guys really don't get it...if you want the AOA to continue to be an insignificant sideline... then apartheid is the way to go.
Anyone who wants to join should be encouraged.
Thread Starter
Ok then............pros and cons for the Oasis members?
What are they?
Pro: the only one I can see is a bigger number of Pilot's, I don't really think 30 is going to help our cause that much though.
Con:1/ they don't need the job for money
2/ don't need the job for very long
3/ have a lot of experience to GET A GOOD JOB ELSEWHERE IF THEY COULD BE BOTHERED
4/ Have shown they are prepared to act for themselves without the blessing of the members of our association
5/ Have nothing to lose by voting for age 65 retirement
6/ have nothing to lose by accepting lower pay as they already have a sizeable PF
7/ don't need much housing allowance as most of them already OWN an Apt in Hkg.
need I go on?
At the end of the day they have done absolutely ZERO to help those junior Pilot's in Cathay Pacific Airways and if you can't see that then get a pair of glasses and stop smoking that funny weed.
What are they?
Pro: the only one I can see is a bigger number of Pilot's, I don't really think 30 is going to help our cause that much though.
Con:1/ they don't need the job for money
2/ don't need the job for very long
3/ have a lot of experience to GET A GOOD JOB ELSEWHERE IF THEY COULD BE BOTHERED
4/ Have shown they are prepared to act for themselves without the blessing of the members of our association
5/ Have nothing to lose by voting for age 65 retirement
6/ have nothing to lose by accepting lower pay as they already have a sizeable PF
7/ don't need much housing allowance as most of them already OWN an Apt in Hkg.
need I go on?
At the end of the day they have done absolutely ZERO to help those junior Pilot's in Cathay Pacific Airways and if you can't see that then get a pair of glasses and stop smoking that funny weed.
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You should have seen the collective rolling of eyes as a certain 60+ yr old was wandering around in dispatch the other day.
Why anyone would want to launch off on 12 day, back of the clock, 2 and 3 crew freighter patterns at the age of 63 is beyond me. I just don't get it.
Why anyone would want to launch off on 12 day, back of the clock, 2 and 3 crew freighter patterns at the age of 63 is beyond me. I just don't get it.
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It is so easy for CX to catch fish!
It's NOT the ex Oasis or any other group the source of your problems but CX management themselves. When will you guys figure this out?
It's NOT the ex Oasis or any other group the source of your problems but CX management themselves. When will you guys figure this out?
Thread Starter
Yes I know but the fact that these guys accept crap DOES NOT HELP YOU A ME 1 LITTLE BIT.
If it was all done THROUGH OUR Union and was 100% legit then NONE OF US WOULD HAVE A BEEF AT ALL.
But it wasn't.
If it was all done THROUGH OUR Union and was 100% legit then NONE OF US WOULD HAVE A BEEF AT ALL.
But it wasn't.
ACMS
You seem to think you know an awful lot about something that happened long before you even turned up!
Incidentally 49 guys got fired as a result of your typical ' a scale pilots not doing anything thinking'
you know f**k all about what happened here in the 80's and early nineties and what happened when we took on DT.
We didn't want freighter crews or B scales and the response in all events was total intimidation and indiscriminate sackings..along with a 25% pay cut.
I wonder if you received a letter in your crew mail from the CEO saying 'sign here or be fired in 10 days' what path you would choose??
Yeah i know..all BS and bravado but I bet a pound to a pinch you'd cue up to keep your job.
Incidentally as you feel so strongly about looking after your fellow crew and taking on the company there is a CPU doing just that so why don't you write them a cheque and put your money where your(rather large)mouth is.
It's plain for all to see that you blame the world's problems on A-scale crew...well if you find it all that intolerable why the hell did you take the job in the first place?
Finally what did YOU do to prevent the introduction of 'C' scales and freighter payscales?
Incidentally 49 guys got fired as a result of your typical ' a scale pilots not doing anything thinking'
you know f**k all about what happened here in the 80's and early nineties and what happened when we took on DT.
We didn't want freighter crews or B scales and the response in all events was total intimidation and indiscriminate sackings..along with a 25% pay cut.
I wonder if you received a letter in your crew mail from the CEO saying 'sign here or be fired in 10 days' what path you would choose??
Yeah i know..all BS and bravado but I bet a pound to a pinch you'd cue up to keep your job.
Incidentally as you feel so strongly about looking after your fellow crew and taking on the company there is a CPU doing just that so why don't you write them a cheque and put your money where your(rather large)mouth is.
It's plain for all to see that you blame the world's problems on A-scale crew...well if you find it all that intolerable why the hell did you take the job in the first place?
Finally what did YOU do to prevent the introduction of 'C' scales and freighter payscales?
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..another thing ACMS: you state that the A scalers didn't do anything to stop B scales...blah, blah, blah. You seem to miss the obvious: the only thing done was you and your colleagues chose to accept B scales. In other words, you made and implemented the only decision necessary for the company to undermine and subvert our profession. I know, it hurts to realise this doesn't it? The A scalers made it clear to the company that they did not accept the B scale decision, or the subsequent ASL decision. Unfortunately, we work for a company that imposes its will. If other pilots were willing to work for worse pay and conditions (like yourself...), then guess what?, B scale and ASL are established. Look at yourself in the mirror. Most of us know what we are/were worth. We joined when the job was worth it.
Thread Starter
twist twist twist
make all the bs excuses you want.
B scale voted against ASL as well, not just the A scale. And we too lost out on many promotions over that debacle.
You and your ilk are amazing in your ability to twist the truth.
Pity you didn't put that talent to work early 93.
However that's history........................We have a problem TODAY, CX are employing DEFO and promoting them to Capt by seriously abusing the system. And these guys accept it WITHOUT even trying to get OUR union to assist.
I don't care how you spin it, they undermine those of us that need a good stable rewarding career here at CX. Those 60 y.o. have alreadty had a long rewarding career and now they totally screw ours. AGAIN.
make all the bs excuses you want.
B scale voted against ASL as well, not just the A scale. And we too lost out on many promotions over that debacle.
You and your ilk are amazing in your ability to twist the truth.
Pity you didn't put that talent to work early 93.
However that's history........................We have a problem TODAY, CX are employing DEFO and promoting them to Capt by seriously abusing the system. And these guys accept it WITHOUT even trying to get OUR union to assist.
I don't care how you spin it, they undermine those of us that need a good stable rewarding career here at CX. Those 60 y.o. have alreadty had a long rewarding career and now they totally screw ours. AGAIN.
Thread Starter
The A scalers made it clear to the company that they did not accept the B scale decision
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..oh, I see....just consider that a PS shall we...? During negotiations with Clemmow (GMF at the time), the AOA said that it was categorically opposed to two different payscales. After a couple of weeks, Clemmow declared the 'negotiations' over, and then put new contracts in boxes. No vote, no say. As I mentioned earlier, the only people who made a conscious decision were those that accepted employment as B scale/ASL. Why don't you go away and find a better method of explaining your BS decision...ok?