X Oasis crew applying to AOA
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ACMS
Hey mate,
yes we voted against the new DEFO scales two years ago. Then in its usual fashion CX imposed them anyway - just like 1994, 1999 and 2001.
I am not going to get involved with the whole 'shouldn't have accepted B, ASL, F, DEFO scales' argument. I know that everyone has a choice - the choice or not to join given the prevailing conditions. I do not believe those that joined on B scales, ASL, DEFO or Oasis did so to undermine the incumbent employees. I think they joined as the conditions were better than their alternatives. So whilst I am personally unhappy with CX offering defacto DEC positions, I do not take issue with those that have accepted them. The bad guy is CX, not the new employees.
In December 1992, the HKAOA expressed their opposal to the introduction of B scales. In the same vein it understood it was the company's right to introduce new T+C's for new employees and that the AOA could not legally defend an employee who did not yet exist (B scales started 1/4/93). As a result of this and other prevailing issues, the AOA asked that no G days be worked in Jan 93!
From being there I can tell you the general belief was that people wouldn't join and if they did the salaries would converge within 3-5 years as they had in the US and European carriers that introduced B scales.
It seems that everytime a new issue raises its ugly head, old prejudices raise theirs too!
yes we voted against the new DEFO scales two years ago. Then in its usual fashion CX imposed them anyway - just like 1994, 1999 and 2001.
I am not going to get involved with the whole 'shouldn't have accepted B, ASL, F, DEFO scales' argument. I know that everyone has a choice - the choice or not to join given the prevailing conditions. I do not believe those that joined on B scales, ASL, DEFO or Oasis did so to undermine the incumbent employees. I think they joined as the conditions were better than their alternatives. So whilst I am personally unhappy with CX offering defacto DEC positions, I do not take issue with those that have accepted them. The bad guy is CX, not the new employees.
In December 1992, the HKAOA expressed their opposal to the introduction of B scales. In the same vein it understood it was the company's right to introduce new T+C's for new employees and that the AOA could not legally defend an employee who did not yet exist (B scales started 1/4/93). As a result of this and other prevailing issues, the AOA asked that no G days be worked in Jan 93!
From being there I can tell you the general belief was that people wouldn't join and if they did the salaries would converge within 3-5 years as they had in the US and European carriers that introduced B scales.
It seems that everytime a new issue raises its ugly head, old prejudices raise theirs too!
Last edited by Numero Crunchero; 2nd Sep 2008 at 01:15.
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ACMS you appear to have a real chip on your shoulder between A and B scale. Knowing that you would be earning less pay why did you join??? What have you personally done since you joined to try and get an increase in your pay. Do you have a beef with the B+ guys or are you one of them? Oh yes and what about the C guys I presume you have been lobbying in all the right places to get that changed...yes we all want to go back to the good old days but life is not like that. Grow Up...and no I am not an A scaler ..below you infact I would think.
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ACMS,
Watching from the sidelines regarding most of your posts, you bark on about wanting more people to join the AOA, now you don't want the O8 guys to join.
Dude, you can't have your cake and eat it.
Watching from the sidelines regarding most of your posts, you bark on about wanting more people to join the AOA, now you don't want the O8 guys to join.
Dude, you can't have your cake and eat it.
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any other groups you want to exclude....ex ASL? ex Freighter? ex-members who may left due to increased subs? ex-members who left for other reasons?
at least if you define the eligibility list, will save a lot of people wasting there time filling in an application form.
take the ex-oasis issue to the company, not to them. you would take a job offered to you if your airline went bust....oh, no, i forgot.......we all fall on our swords dont we, lose our livelihood, possibly our families and homes....in the interests of our fellow pilots who would do just the same for us!
at least if you define the eligibility list, will save a lot of people wasting there time filling in an application form.
take the ex-oasis issue to the company, not to them. you would take a job offered to you if your airline went bust....oh, no, i forgot.......we all fall on our swords dont we, lose our livelihood, possibly our families and homes....in the interests of our fellow pilots who would do just the same for us!
Thread Starter
any other groups you want to exclude....ex ASL? ex Freighter? ex-members who may left due to increased subs? ex-members who left for other reasons?
And No, I don't begrudge A scale, quite the opposite. IF we had a good membership we might have a shot at decent conditions for ALL.
I have no objection to MM IG RM GO MD etc etc coming back but for gods sake do it through the AOA, respecting ALL our contracts.
So you're telling me that these x Oasis Captains coming back DON'T harm our cause?? It most certainly does, in many ways.
Did any of these blokes bother to ask OUR union's opinion or help before applying?
NO of course not, they don't care about the rest of us.
take the ex-oasis issue to the company, not to them. you would take a job offered to you if your airline went bust....oh, no, i forgot.......we all fall on our swords dont we, lose our livelihood, possibly our families and homes....in the interests of our fellow pilots who would do just the same for us!
Last edited by ACMS; 2nd Sep 2008 at 05:01.
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apple tree yard
"Most of us know what we are/were worth. We joined when the job was worth it. "
Sure everyone wants the most they can make out of anything. I'm sure we all value ourselves as highly as yourself, so show us where the jobs are now that are worth it and the rest will follow.....
When I joined Cx, B scale had been the norm for quite some time, so how am I to blame for B scale introduction??
Well I guess all of us could be blamed for allowing C scale. The thing we all need to do now is prevent further errosion of our conditions..... If people put half the effort they use on these posts and directed it towards contributing to protecting our conditions, we would all be alot better off....
Sure everyone wants the most they can make out of anything. I'm sure we all value ourselves as highly as yourself, so show us where the jobs are now that are worth it and the rest will follow.....
When I joined Cx, B scale had been the norm for quite some time, so how am I to blame for B scale introduction??
Well I guess all of us could be blamed for allowing C scale. The thing we all need to do now is prevent further errosion of our conditions..... If people put half the effort they use on these posts and directed it towards contributing to protecting our conditions, we would all be alot better off....
Thread Starter
I venture to suggest that these blokes will all have left inside 2 years, they'll have had their unexpected fling in the left seat of a CX Jet, screwed us and left with more pocket money to spend.
THANKS from me for helping my Union negotiate improved T and C's
And thanks from the F/O's and S/O's that have had their upgrades delayed.
Spin it all you want..................That is a FACT
THANKS from me for helping my Union negotiate improved T and C's
And thanks from the F/O's and S/O's that have had their upgrades delayed.
Spin it all you want..................That is a FACT
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ACMS...they do indeed hurt our cause.....nothing like seeing command slide further away......but i take a different take on it.....i blame the company for aloowing it to happen rather than the individuals for taking the jobs.
and as for asking the AOA permission to join cathay....you gotta be taking the piss!
and as for asking the AOA permission to join cathay....you gotta be taking the piss!
Thread Starter
I didn't say "ask permission"
I said
See I do blame these blokes, the companies position is clear, profit and bottom line are what drives them and only thing that stops them paying us even less is a UNITED US. These X Oasis guys are not united one little bit.
They pander to the company and assist them in their devisive ways.
We are being screwed gentlemen and these X Oasis guys are providing the KY
I said
Did any of these blokes bother to ask OUR union's opinion or help before applying?
See I do blame these blokes, the companies position is clear, profit and bottom line are what drives them and only thing that stops them paying us even less is a UNITED US. These X Oasis guys are not united one little bit.
They pander to the company and assist them in their devisive ways.
We are being screwed gentlemen and these X Oasis guys are providing the KY
Last edited by ACMS; 2nd Sep 2008 at 06:12.
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as a matter of fact I did just that back in 1989. YOU?
ACMS, so you're bitter still after 1989? Can understand that. What I don't understand is that you had no choice as you had lost your job, so you join CX on the B scale? Yet you deny MM, who also lost his job, the chance to join CX.
You accuse him of damaging everyone else when you did the same. In fact was it not the B scalers who were the first to demonstarte to CX that they could succeed in running down contracts?
Nearly every post you have made in this thread contradicts a previous one. It seems that bitterness breeds confusion.
You just don't get it do you?
You accuse him of damaging everyone else when you did the same. In fact was it not the B scalers who were the first to demonstarte to CX that they could succeed in running down contracts?
Nearly every post you have made in this thread contradicts a previous one. It seems that bitterness breeds confusion.
You just don't get it do you?
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ACMS,
Wow, you really do have a bit of an axe to grind eh? I am an ex Oasis pilot who did'nt choose Cathay and went elsewhere. Just to put you straight I know that at least 10 out of the 30 odd guys who came across are under 40 and see Cathay as 20 yr+ career, not just a few years to boost the pocket money. The others are predominantly ex and very experienced Cathay pilots, a proven product, and therefore at a point where your company is shot of flight deck perhaps a good investment for the short term considering training costs.
I can imagine that these guys want nothing more than to intergrate in to the company now and be seen as Cathay pilots rather than ex Oasis pilots. I genuinely now feel sorry for them if they have to sit on a flightdeck with the likes of you having to listen to you drone on about absolute crap.
Thankfully looking at this thread the majority realize that we all need a job to pay the bills and that if Cathay's financial politics are at fault the finger should be pointed at the politicians rather than the pilots!
Wow, you really do have a bit of an axe to grind eh? I am an ex Oasis pilot who did'nt choose Cathay and went elsewhere. Just to put you straight I know that at least 10 out of the 30 odd guys who came across are under 40 and see Cathay as 20 yr+ career, not just a few years to boost the pocket money. The others are predominantly ex and very experienced Cathay pilots, a proven product, and therefore at a point where your company is shot of flight deck perhaps a good investment for the short term considering training costs.
I can imagine that these guys want nothing more than to intergrate in to the company now and be seen as Cathay pilots rather than ex Oasis pilots. I genuinely now feel sorry for them if they have to sit on a flightdeck with the likes of you having to listen to you drone on about absolute crap.
Thankfully looking at this thread the majority realize that we all need a job to pay the bills and that if Cathay's financial politics are at fault the finger should be pointed at the politicians rather than the pilots!
Thread Starter
yeah lets bend over so the Oasis guys can pay their bills.
NEWSFLASH:... you joined a fly by night operation, what did you expect?
Well I can tell you that all of the guys I know in CX agree with me 100%.
All of them will not speak to the Oasis guys on an overnight at the bar.
They are held in the contempt they deeserve.
NEWSFLASH:... you joined a fly by night operation, what did you expect?
Well I can tell you that all of the guys I know in CX agree with me 100%.
All of them will not speak to the Oasis guys on an overnight at the bar.
They are held in the contempt they deeserve.
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"Well I can tell you that all of the guys I know in CX agree with me 100%."
Enough said, thanks for justifying my decision to go elsewhere, no wonder Cathays rep within the industry is spiraling downhill.....shame.
Enough said, thanks for justifying my decision to go elsewhere, no wonder Cathays rep within the industry is spiraling downhill.....shame.
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Western Bronco, this guy does not speak for anyone but himself. Further he is in no way representative. Don't sweat the small stuff ---- and this mentality is just that. ACMS you are an embarrassment.