CX 777 Flyby CP sacked
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 202
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From: I go, therefore I am there!
Do they still teach HAZARDOUS ATTITUDES in CRM these days?
Anti-authoritarian, Impulsivity, Invulnerability, Exhibitionist, Resignation
Four out of five demonstrated is not a bad effort!.
I doubt the majority on the forum have a problem with a “fly-by”, but thankfully the majority can identify poor judgement in how it was done. Faster and higher would have been FANTASTIC, and INFINITELY SAFER.
Anti-authoritarian, Impulsivity, Invulnerability, Exhibitionist, Resignation
Four out of five demonstrated is not a bad effort!.
I doubt the majority on the forum have a problem with a “fly-by”, but thankfully the majority can identify poor judgement in how it was done. Faster and higher would have been FANTASTIC, and INFINITELY SAFER.
Last edited by arse; 17th February 2008 at 12:44.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: flagrant arbour
I am truly amazed. When I saw this video I thought it must be doctored. If what has been said so far is at all true, then there should definitely be some heads rolling over this stunt.
Unbriefed low flying with little or no work-up in a heavy transport cat acft with pax onboard, all self-authorised….did I get that right? Pilots who have any experience with display flying will tell you that this is a disastrous combination. Truly unbelievable by someone who is supposed to be a custodian of flying standards at CX. Furthermore, this ‘beat-up’ had nothing to do with confidence in acft handling, but rather was an exercise in pointless risk taking, recklessness and incredibly poor airmanship, serving to pander to this individual’s ego. Anyone endorsing this activity should have a good hard look at themselves and their understanding of professionalism. The only way airline pilots should do low flying is to go to an aeroclub, get properly endorsed, certified and trained and do it in acft that are more suited to this type of op.
For the uninitiated/unaware etc the following are just 2 examples of what can happen to highly skilled, highly trained pilots who fly lower than their auth or do stupid things in large acft (which are extremely unforgiving in cases of misjudgment):
B52 Capt with over 20 yrs on type, but with similar hazardous attitudes as seen in the 777 video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7aLEKBlhNk
A320 flown by an Airbus test pilot who did little more than break his auth hgt by 100’:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzD4tIvPHwE
see any similarities? Does the 777 CP consider himself a better trained, more capable pilot than these guys?
Even if this ‘salute’ was properly prepared and authorised with some semblance of a risk management process, how on earth can this be considered as a positive promotion for CX as a responsible airline? I like a good airshow as much as anyone, but for god’s sake do it professionally. What’s next…. unbriefed formation enroute to TPE?
Quotable quote: “You can only equal the record for low flying!”
Unbriefed low flying with little or no work-up in a heavy transport cat acft with pax onboard, all self-authorised….did I get that right? Pilots who have any experience with display flying will tell you that this is a disastrous combination. Truly unbelievable by someone who is supposed to be a custodian of flying standards at CX. Furthermore, this ‘beat-up’ had nothing to do with confidence in acft handling, but rather was an exercise in pointless risk taking, recklessness and incredibly poor airmanship, serving to pander to this individual’s ego. Anyone endorsing this activity should have a good hard look at themselves and their understanding of professionalism. The only way airline pilots should do low flying is to go to an aeroclub, get properly endorsed, certified and trained and do it in acft that are more suited to this type of op.
For the uninitiated/unaware etc the following are just 2 examples of what can happen to highly skilled, highly trained pilots who fly lower than their auth or do stupid things in large acft (which are extremely unforgiving in cases of misjudgment):
B52 Capt with over 20 yrs on type, but with similar hazardous attitudes as seen in the 777 video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7aLEKBlhNk
A320 flown by an Airbus test pilot who did little more than break his auth hgt by 100’:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzD4tIvPHwE
see any similarities? Does the 777 CP consider himself a better trained, more capable pilot than these guys?
Even if this ‘salute’ was properly prepared and authorised with some semblance of a risk management process, how on earth can this be considered as a positive promotion for CX as a responsible airline? I like a good airshow as much as anyone, but for god’s sake do it professionally. What’s next…. unbriefed formation enroute to TPE?
Quotable quote: “You can only equal the record for low flying!”
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: home
I've done whole trips lower than that at 300 kts. Admittedly it wasn't as big as a 777 but I don't see the problem. There was no manoeuvring worth talking about, no excess 'g', no obstructions. I'm sure that all those onboard loved it!
Regards
csd
Regards
csd
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: Mostly in a hotel
Rules or not
This just shows what we think of ourself at Cathay.
OK, so lets say it was authorised, well rehersed etc. But how does a CX CEO, DFO or anybody else waive FAA rules etc. Unfortunately the company and many of us employees think that as long as CX prints something it is the law and sound judgement is left to the people who does the typing.
That being said, awesome flyby, looked really good, 30 or 50 ft, so what, there was nothing unsafe about it. There was nothing unsafe about doing inverted flight at 250' instead of the minimum 300' I had to adhere to in previous life either, but it was still breaking the rules, and so was this flyby.
I will leave to others what the penalty of breaking the rules should be.....
OK, so lets say it was authorised, well rehersed etc. But how does a CX CEO, DFO or anybody else waive FAA rules etc. Unfortunately the company and many of us employees think that as long as CX prints something it is the law and sound judgement is left to the people who does the typing.
That being said, awesome flyby, looked really good, 30 or 50 ft, so what, there was nothing unsafe about it. There was nothing unsafe about doing inverted flight at 250' instead of the minimum 300' I had to adhere to in previous life either, but it was still breaking the rules, and so was this flyby.
I will leave to others what the penalty of breaking the rules should be.....
Last edited by Cider30; 17th February 2008 at 15:42.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: USA
OMG
i dont know about the pollution making it hard to breath, but having ones head that far up it obviously does. have you all forgeten what fun it used to be being a pilot? Wasnt this a part 91 flight for those of you gasping FAA through quivering lips? how much practice does it need to fly and aircraft well above V2 with lots of momentum in a shallow climb? At least he is not explaining blue juice on the roof. Get a life, I hope you would have done it if you had the chance, i know i would have. Puff!
Kewl
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10
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From: Melbourne , Australia
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: earth
Hey Guys,
Heard today by a manager, that the CP has been slapped on the back of the hands, but as the CEO was on the flightdeck having a jolly good time, he has been applauded by those higher up.
However, i have heard that the guy in the right hand seat has been basically given his marching orders by Kim Jong Phil. His CX ID has been suspended so he cant even come into Cx City...
Having done air displays in my previous life, this low and slow stunt was stupid and it just sends the wrong message to all the younger pilots coming up through the ranks. If the CP is doing this sort of stuff, where does it end? It also worries me that if the CAD gets to see this, what then?
I am all for airshows and having a great time, but it all has its place. Keep it safe everyone and have fun
)
Heard today by a manager, that the CP has been slapped on the back of the hands, but as the CEO was on the flightdeck having a jolly good time, he has been applauded by those higher up.
However, i have heard that the guy in the right hand seat has been basically given his marching orders by Kim Jong Phil. His CX ID has been suspended so he cant even come into Cx City...
Having done air displays in my previous life, this low and slow stunt was stupid and it just sends the wrong message to all the younger pilots coming up through the ranks. If the CP is doing this sort of stuff, where does it end? It also worries me that if the CAD gets to see this, what then?
I am all for airshows and having a great time, but it all has its place. Keep it safe everyone and have fun
)
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: a few places
Have to agree 100% with bunkmaker, any pilot who doesn't think that flyby was an awesome piece of aviation should give up flying and become a lawyer, so you can go around and be the fun police for the rest of your days.
Get a life.
Get a life.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
but...
Both highly respected pilots from the 777 fleet. The CP although a bit of a snake in the grass has made sure our fleet has not seen the lows of the French fleet.
However, in light of company morale and as mentioned before, the fact that they are responsible for the setting of the most stringent of SOPs for us and constantly rebuke us for the slightest of errors, well it is no wonder that they are getting this kind of response.
Those who say people bagging this are taking the fun out of flying, well the CP is very resposnible for taking the fun out of our flying on a day to day basis. You cant set those rules and then do your own thing, "You Tube" is watching!!!!
However, in light of company morale and as mentioned before, the fact that they are responsible for the setting of the most stringent of SOPs for us and constantly rebuke us for the slightest of errors, well it is no wonder that they are getting this kind of response.
Those who say people bagging this are taking the fun out of flying, well the CP is very resposnible for taking the fun out of our flying on a day to day basis. You cant set those rules and then do your own thing, "You Tube" is watching!!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Asia
Suspend?
Quote: "but why suspend RM in the right seat"?
Latest we heard from CX 3/F was that both have been taken off flying pending "hearings".
The right seat guy has not been given his marching orders etc, etc.
Fenswicksgirl, What "lows" of the French fleet? Their CP is highly respected too.
Overall cx flyer has it right
Latest we heard from CX 3/F was that both have been taken off flying pending "hearings".
The right seat guy has not been given his marching orders etc, etc.
Fenswicksgirl, What "lows" of the French fleet? Their CP is highly respected too.
Overall cx flyer has it right