Jump Seats
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I'd like to know what the horrific offence is at Ground Staff getting the jump seats?
Oh, I think I just answered my own question.
1) They earn twice as much as Pilots, and therefore can afford Business Class.
2) They only work half as hard as Pilots, and really, who would notice if there were no ground crew? Pilots can do everything.
How dare they?
Oh, I think I just answered my own question.
1) They earn twice as much as Pilots, and therefore can afford Business Class.
2) They only work half as hard as Pilots, and really, who would notice if there were no ground crew? Pilots can do everything.
How dare they?
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ACMS wrote...
ACMS now you have started calling me an Ass..... yes please I would love to join your gang, oh, let me in!!!!! Now why was it I didn't want to join!!!!
An honest question!!!!
Let's say the AOA had 100% membership, explain it to me how you think it will differ from now. If the company don't want to give what you are asking for they WILL NOT. Anyone remember a few months ago regarding pay talks etc.....Ahhh that's right, you voted no, the company said sod you, here's 3%....How would that have been any different with 100% membership????
So what's next, action, work to rule etc....If you think the average CX pilot is going to stick his/her head out you are deluded.
I still find it staggering that some of you people like ACMS think that you are some kind of stand up guy or hero etc because you are in the AOA and non members are selfish or money motivated.
I have also lost count the amount of threads on here regarding the dissatisfaction with the AOA over recent negotiations. Why join an association which seems to be in tatters.
Just for the record, I like many, will not answer my phone on a G day or check crew direct if I have an outstanding crew notification. Just because I am not in the union does not mean I am against an improvement in conditions.
Hey Badairsucker: all for one and one for me............ass
how's about you think of joining the AOA and maybe then we can all WORK TOGETHER.
Novel idea huh.
unless you have more selfish, self serving plans we don't know about?
how's about you think of joining the AOA and maybe then we can all WORK TOGETHER.
Novel idea huh.
unless you have more selfish, self serving plans we don't know about?
An honest question!!!!
Let's say the AOA had 100% membership, explain it to me how you think it will differ from now. If the company don't want to give what you are asking for they WILL NOT. Anyone remember a few months ago regarding pay talks etc.....Ahhh that's right, you voted no, the company said sod you, here's 3%....How would that have been any different with 100% membership????
So what's next, action, work to rule etc....If you think the average CX pilot is going to stick his/her head out you are deluded.
I still find it staggering that some of you people like ACMS think that you are some kind of stand up guy or hero etc because you are in the AOA and non members are selfish or money motivated.
I have also lost count the amount of threads on here regarding the dissatisfaction with the AOA over recent negotiations. Why join an association which seems to be in tatters.Just for the record, I like many, will not answer my phone on a G day or check crew direct if I have an outstanding crew notification. Just because I am not in the union does not mean I am against an improvement in conditions.
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Poor misunderstood
Bad air :
I find it quite troubling that there are so many of BBS non aoa pilots that are as militant about being non-aoa, as the so called militant AOA pilots.
You sir are a prime example of the former. You apparently have made your choice and in a democracy so be it. What I do not understand is unless you are starting a bigger and better association to do things how you want, what exactly are you on about ? What exactly do you want ?
Would you like the AOA gone ?
Would you like the AOA to do better ?
Would you like to leave your future solely in the hands of the management of the day ?
Or would you like to be a realist and accept that we can only change some things , massage policy a little, offer legal and income protection, represent Hong Kong on the international level, negotiate insurance and retirement packages, better your housing allowance, clarify rules and policy, represent you against the co. should you (heaven forbid) step wrong, monitor and implement safety procedures, gain input to rostering and lifestyle issues. All of which is well worth my dues. Dues which would be half what they are if everyone joined. Therefore the more that join the more value you get for your dues.
If you think that the representation has not favoured you now, how will it be when you must wait in line behind 3000 or 4000 other pilots to get your face time with the DFO in order to better your individual contract ?
It's pilots like you that shock me. You really do not have a grasp on industrial relations. You probably have never negotiated a deal for anything more than your last Porsche. If you had you would realise the ridiculousness of your position.
Peace out
I find it quite troubling that there are so many of BBS non aoa pilots that are as militant about being non-aoa, as the so called militant AOA pilots.
You sir are a prime example of the former. You apparently have made your choice and in a democracy so be it. What I do not understand is unless you are starting a bigger and better association to do things how you want, what exactly are you on about ? What exactly do you want ?
Would you like the AOA gone ?
Would you like the AOA to do better ?
Would you like to leave your future solely in the hands of the management of the day ?
Or would you like to be a realist and accept that we can only change some things , massage policy a little, offer legal and income protection, represent Hong Kong on the international level, negotiate insurance and retirement packages, better your housing allowance, clarify rules and policy, represent you against the co. should you (heaven forbid) step wrong, monitor and implement safety procedures, gain input to rostering and lifestyle issues. All of which is well worth my dues. Dues which would be half what they are if everyone joined. Therefore the more that join the more value you get for your dues.
If you think that the representation has not favoured you now, how will it be when you must wait in line behind 3000 or 4000 other pilots to get your face time with the DFO in order to better your individual contract ?
It's pilots like you that shock me. You really do not have a grasp on industrial relations. You probably have never negotiated a deal for anything more than your last Porsche. If you had you would realise the ridiculousness of your position.
Peace out
Last edited by Five Green; 3rd Dec 2007 at 02:06. Reason: punctuation
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Militant non AOA, I don't see non AOA guys writing on public website stating that they won't give jumpseats away to AOA members, do you???
Giving my opinion is not being militant, nor are some of the AOA members that are giving their opinion. I find it a little disturbing that some of the posters here, ACMS and Apple Tree Yard etc are very openly militant regarding AOA membership, gobbing off about not giving away jumpseats and separating themselves from others due to the fact that some of the pilots in the company choose to be NON MEMBERS. Maybe it's guys like this in your AOA is why some guys choose to stay away!!!
Again, I don't see non members mouthing off about turning AOA members down for jumpseats.
Giving my opinion is not being militant, nor are some of the AOA members that are giving their opinion. I find it a little disturbing that some of the posters here, ACMS and Apple Tree Yard etc are very openly militant regarding AOA membership, gobbing off about not giving away jumpseats and separating themselves from others due to the fact that some of the pilots in the company choose to be NON MEMBERS. Maybe it's guys like this in your AOA is why some guys choose to stay away!!!
Again, I don't see non members mouthing off about turning AOA members down for jumpseats.
Last edited by badairsucker; 3rd Dec 2007 at 07:50. Reason: Spelling
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jump seats
Hmmmm, bad air sucker you have made me re-evaluate my policy on jump seats. I never used to differentiate between AOA/non AOA but your erudite contributions to this website will ensure I do in future!
In the meantime, would you mind telling me what pay offer YOU were able to negotiate with the company? We had one negotiated but it was rejected by our representatives. Also, what LOI and legal protections do you get in your non union? And should you ever find yourself in a D+G situation, what professional help will you seek?
You are like one of those 'conspiracy theorists' who argue that inoculation of their own children is unnecessary...it is only unnecessary thanks to the rest of us doing the right thing.
In the meantime, would you mind telling me what pay offer YOU were able to negotiate with the company? We had one negotiated but it was rejected by our representatives. Also, what LOI and legal protections do you get in your non union? And should you ever find yourself in a D+G situation, what professional help will you seek?
You are like one of those 'conspiracy theorists' who argue that inoculation of their own children is unnecessary...it is only unnecessary thanks to the rest of us doing the right thing.
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Meanwhile, going back to the original thread....
So the chances of Mr Tyler getting the jumpseat from anyone here on December 27th, as he japed about the coffer-filling loads in last weeks Friday Telex, is pretty slim?
PS - What fun to see a bunch of grown men and women brawling like a group of 6 year olds in the playground.
Now play nicely!
So the chances of Mr Tyler getting the jumpseat from anyone here on December 27th, as he japed about the coffer-filling loads in last weeks Friday Telex, is pretty slim?
PS - What fun to see a bunch of grown men and women brawling like a group of 6 year olds in the playground.
Now play nicely!
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Hmmmm, bad air sucker you have made me re-evaluate my policy on jump seats. I never used to differentiate between AOA/non AOA but your erudite contributions to this website will ensure I do in future!
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Originally Posted by Numero Crunchero
Hmmmm, bad air sucker you have made me re-evaluate my policy on jump seats. I never used to differentiate between AOA/non AOA but your erudite contributions to this website will ensure I do in future!
Lets just hope the more astute non-AOA members dont follow your puerile thought process and start denying AOA members jumpseats. Its not like the membership has the majority; it goes both ways.
To briefly answer your other questions:
In the meantime, would you mind telling me what pay offer YOU were able to negotiate with the company?
Also, what LOI and legal protections do you get in your non union? And should you ever find yourself in a D+G situation, what professional help will you seek?
If I ever needed any professional help, I would do the smart thing and hire a real professional with the money I have saved in dues, and not rely on a broken Association with a horrific track record in every respect.
PX
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Well, at least he's finally come out & admitted his real reason for not being a member ........ $$$$$$$
Just like all of 'em.
"Honey, if you don't become a member of the AOA, I could buy another handbag this month, please, please, please ....."
Just like all of 'em.
"Honey, if you don't become a member of the AOA, I could buy another handbag this month, please, please, please ....."
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finally some help!
Hello iluvpx,
I tried to click on the real professional link you attempted to provide us.
It did not work so if you could please re-post with the correct link.
I'm sure your professional will obtain significantly more from the company.
Also do you think he/she could arrange a jumpseat for me over Chinese New Year?
I'm in the AOA, but willing to quit.
Thanks for all your help.
I tried to click on the real professional link you attempted to provide us.
It did not work so if you could please re-post with the correct link.
I'm sure your professional will obtain significantly more from the company.
Also do you think he/she could arrange a jumpseat for me over Chinese New Year?
I'm in the AOA, but willing to quit.
Thanks for all your help.
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Holy crap, you guys are brutal.
I joined the AOA for one main reason. Alot of the places we fly too can throw you and your crew in jail for some perceived offense. How much do you think a good, competent aviation lawyer is going to cost you out of pocket? Cheap insurance...do you buy insurance for your car because you know that you are going to crash it into a tree after drinking all f-ing night.
We are not invincible.
Mayday
I joined the AOA for one main reason. Alot of the places we fly too can throw you and your crew in jail for some perceived offense. How much do you think a good, competent aviation lawyer is going to cost you out of pocket? Cheap insurance...do you buy insurance for your car because you know that you are going to crash it into a tree after drinking all f-ing night.
We are not invincible.
Mayday
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Well, at least he's finally come out & admitted his real reason for not being a member ........ $$$$$$$
Just like all of 'em.
Just like all of 'em.
oh dear!!!!!
It's statements like that which gives me the biggest smile.....
You really think it's all about the money don't you, how narrow minded you are.
help me out here AACE!
Pay into an organization which is in tatters and your a good bloke or don't pay into that organization which is in tatters and you not a good bloke. Am I correct?????????
My monthly investments in the stock market is based on some key facts such as past performance, growth, ability to adapt to a changing market and future goals. With this in mind I have done fairly well regarding investments, so money for me in terms of 1.5% of my salary is not really an issue, but read the first paragraph again and the things I look for in an organization seem to be missing in your AOA. Just my two cents worth mate.
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All this banter about whether someone is an AOA member or not, subject to whether or not he/she is given a jumpseat ? If One feels so strong about this belief, why doesn't One refuse to operate a flight, RT/PC or even attend the same Annual Emergency Training with the 'accused' ?
The last time I checked, we all wore the same uniform, and shook hands at Despatch as well as in the arrival hall....the thought never came across the mind to ask "oh by the way, are you an AOA member ?"
Well, should any pilot need my jumpseat, I'll be happy to help any fellow aviator first priority, be it commuter or non-commuter. IMHO, "in the unlikely event" of mutiple EICAS/ECAM messages illuminating the flightdeck like a Christmas tree, I would rather have another fellow aviator to assist us, than some ground staff who typically assigns me a middle seat with that entertainment box under my feet in Y class, or a couple of cabin crew that sit and talk loud enough to be heard at the 80kt call on the roll, despite having been briefed the rules, that SHOULD be taught in their ground school as well.
.......and I am not concerned whether someone is or is not an AOA member, because, "at the end of the day" we all have similar stories of hurdles in getting where we are today, and we all are subject to the same operational control and fury of Mother Nature - both entities don't differentiate between members and non-members.
I pay my monthly dues for my reasons, those that chose not to be a part of the AOA have theirs - that's what democracy is about.
The last time I checked, we all wore the same uniform, and shook hands at Despatch as well as in the arrival hall....the thought never came across the mind to ask "oh by the way, are you an AOA member ?"
Well, should any pilot need my jumpseat, I'll be happy to help any fellow aviator first priority, be it commuter or non-commuter. IMHO, "in the unlikely event" of mutiple EICAS/ECAM messages illuminating the flightdeck like a Christmas tree, I would rather have another fellow aviator to assist us, than some ground staff who typically assigns me a middle seat with that
entertainment box under my feet in Y class, or a couple of cabin crew that sit and talk loud enough to be heard at the 80kt call on the roll, despite having been briefed the rules, that SHOULD be taught in their ground school as well........and I am not concerned whether someone is or is not an AOA member, because, "at the end of the day" we all have similar stories of hurdles in getting where we are today, and we all are subject to the same operational control and fury of Mother Nature - both entities don't differentiate between members and non-members.
I pay my monthly dues for my reasons, those that chose not to be a part of the AOA have theirs - that's what democracy is about.
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Finally got someone who talk like a civilised professional.
To get the situation improved, I believe it's not a jump seat/no jump seat, or putting a pin on the tie or not problem. There must be reasons for people choose not to join AOA. Will that be $$? Will that 1.5% really means a lot to a pilot? Or will it be some other reasons?
All that we are talking here is just getting things worse, separating fellow pilots into 2 groups, without any help at all. Will the union try to understand why people not willing to join the union, for whatever the reason will be?
To get the situation improved, I believe it's not a jump seat/no jump seat, or putting a pin on the tie or not problem. There must be reasons for people choose not to join AOA. Will that be $$? Will that 1.5% really means a lot to a pilot? Or will it be some other reasons?
All that we are talking here is just getting things worse, separating fellow pilots into 2 groups, without any help at all. Will the union try to understand why people not willing to join the union, for whatever the reason will be?
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All this banter about whether someone is an AOA member or not, subject to whether or not he/she is given a jumpseat ? If One feels so strong about this belief, why doesn't One refuse to operate a flight, RT/PC or even attend the same Annual Emergency Training with the 'accused' ?
The last time I checked, we all wore the same uniform, and shook hands at Despatch as well as in the arrival hall....the thought never came across the mind to ask "oh by the way, are you an AOA member ?"
Well, should any pilot need my jumpseat, I'll be happy to help any fellow aviator first priority, be it commuter or non-commuter. IMHO, "in the unlikely event" of mutiple EICAS/ECAM messages illuminating the flightdeck like a Christmas tree, I would rather have another fellow aviator to assist us, than some ground staff who typically assigns me a middle seat with that entertainment box under my feet in Y class, or a couple of cabin crew that sit and talk loud enough to be heard at the 80kt call on the roll, despite having been briefed the rules, that SHOULD be taught in their ground school as well.
.......and I am not concerned whether someone is or is not an AOA member, because, "at the end of the day" we all have similar stories of hurdles in getting where we are today, and we all are subject to the same operational control and fury of Mother Nature - both entities don't differentiate between members and non-members.
I pay my monthly dues for my reasons, those that chose not to be a part of the AOA have theirs - that's what democracy is about.
The last time I checked, we all wore the same uniform, and shook hands at Despatch as well as in the arrival hall....the thought never came across the mind to ask "oh by the way, are you an AOA member ?"
Well, should any pilot need my jumpseat, I'll be happy to help any fellow aviator first priority, be it commuter or non-commuter. IMHO, "in the unlikely event" of mutiple EICAS/ECAM messages illuminating the flightdeck like a Christmas tree, I would rather have another fellow aviator to assist us, than some ground staff who typically assigns me a middle seat with that
entertainment box under my feet in Y class, or a couple of cabin crew that sit and talk loud enough to be heard at the 80kt call on the roll, despite having been briefed the rules, that SHOULD be taught in their ground school as well........and I am not concerned whether someone is or is not an AOA member, because, "at the end of the day" we all have similar stories of hurdles in getting where we are today, and we all are subject to the same operational control and fury of Mother Nature - both entities don't differentiate between members and non-members.
I pay my monthly dues for my reasons, those that chose not to be a part of the AOA have theirs - that's what democracy is about.
