Resignations at KA
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The logic really does escape me. "You can't have something because someone else can't have it."
SO?!
For example, we weren't allowed to jump seat on the freighter because it was a benefit another group weren't allowed.
I'm normally a dispassionate poster but do they really think we're daft?
BB
SO?!
For example, we weren't allowed to jump seat on the freighter because it was a benefit another group weren't allowed.
I'm normally a dispassionate poster but do they really think we're daft?
BB
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Market Forces
When B-Scales were introduced at Cathay in 1993, the term 'Market Forces' came to the fore. It suited the bean counters back then to blame the introduction of B-Scales on the rules pertaining to 'Market Forces'.
It appears that when 'Market Forces' come back to bite them as they are now, they look to disown the term with every excuse they possibly can.
They make the rules, they bend the rules they made, and then they flat out just seem to want to break them.
The guys leaving KA, (and the guys and girls leaving Cathay...), are showing the Company the true meaning of 'Market Forces' - but so far it appears that the Company doesn't really want to learn the lesson.
It appears that when 'Market Forces' come back to bite them as they are now, they look to disown the term with every excuse they possibly can.
They make the rules, they bend the rules they made, and then they flat out just seem to want to break them.
The guys leaving KA, (and the guys and girls leaving Cathay...), are showing the Company the true meaning of 'Market Forces' - but so far it appears that the Company doesn't really want to learn the lesson.
Last edited by BScaler; 24th Nov 2007 at 22:58.
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"Its been very quiet since some muppets got "free drinks" Boocs. Alas now the honeymoon is over. In the bible the Saviour healed the sick, In KA the one they believed was the saviour "sacked the sick". That was excellent timing Dick. As the Mai Tai`s et al were being savoured by the those who graced Dick with their presence, Pilots on long term sick leave were being terminated."
OCH
Get off your high horse.
Muppet
Fx
PS. has this not been discussed on the DPA site
OCH
Get off your high horse.
Muppet
Fx
PS. has this not been discussed on the DPA site
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View from across the water
Interesting to see that some of the BS that has afflicted us just on the west side of the PRD (mgmt, pay, no-growth strategy) has spread to the east side. We are up to 16% of pilots lost so far this year, so it sounds like we need to work a little harder to catch up with out traditional lead.
Admittedly the rostering here is not so bad, but we do have an abnormally high proportion of psychotics (both Capt and FO), so cockpit atmosphere is frequently abysmal. So dont bother coming, frankly.
And now to my point. We are replacing losses with endless supply of Aussie turboprop drivers, and are currently rapidly losing guys to Etihad (A320).
Conclusions:
1) KA will have no problem hiring guys (albeit with no Bus experience, but who cares so long as it flys, right?
)
2) If you cant stomach India (literally or not), then there is a big career airline with multiple types, routes, lengths, which is building up an A320 fleet. ...But you do have to live in the land of sand.
Admittedly the rostering here is not so bad, but we do have an abnormally high proportion of psychotics (both Capt and FO), so cockpit atmosphere is frequently abysmal. So dont bother coming, frankly.
And now to my point. We are replacing losses with endless supply of Aussie turboprop drivers, and are currently rapidly losing guys to Etihad (A320).
Conclusions:
1) KA will have no problem hiring guys (albeit with no Bus experience, but who cares so long as it flys, right?
)2) If you cant stomach India (literally or not), then there is a big career airline with multiple types, routes, lengths, which is building up an A320 fleet. ...But you do have to live in the land of sand.
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Dragonair. Don't come unless you have to ! Sad that an outfit with a good bunch of people at the coalface is spiralling so rapidly.
A newjoining FO is taking a considerable professional risk by joining. Why ? Command prospects are blowing out by years as more bad news follows. Classics going. 400F going. Expansion slowed. Flights cancelled with possible damage to the brand. Many more flights to be cancelled as attrittion hits hard and those left are demoralised and questioning their own reasons for staying.
The biggest risk is that Cathay, a few years down the track, absorbs the operation. Leaving the poor sods left with broken promises and " To the bottom of CX senioirty list you go ".
Cathay has shown nothing, absolutely nothing that suggests that KA pilots will get anything but a shafting. Their only concern is if resignitions become ridiculously disorderly. They may then have to write down the the embarassingly high price they have paid for Dragonair.
As much as we need folks at the moment. Be careful.
A newjoining FO is taking a considerable professional risk by joining. Why ? Command prospects are blowing out by years as more bad news follows. Classics going. 400F going. Expansion slowed. Flights cancelled with possible damage to the brand. Many more flights to be cancelled as attrittion hits hard and those left are demoralised and questioning their own reasons for staying.
The biggest risk is that Cathay, a few years down the track, absorbs the operation. Leaving the poor sods left with broken promises and " To the bottom of CX senioirty list you go ".
Cathay has shown nothing, absolutely nothing that suggests that KA pilots will get anything but a shafting. Their only concern is if resignitions become ridiculously disorderly. They may then have to write down the the embarassingly high price they have paid for Dragonair.
As much as we need folks at the moment. Be careful.
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Whats for lunch, while it may have been 'Capt or FO' earlier today, by now it is highly likely to be 'Capt & FO'. Today & every day this week I suspect. The great communicator seems to have adopted the KA standard very quickly- that is to communicate by rumour, a common trait of all dysfunctional organisations.
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This thread has been quiet for some time as we give "the new boys" time to digest what is required to fix the problems at KA. Their offer is due this week.
We will just have to wait and see if they are smart enough to fix it.
That being said, I know a lot of work is still being done by the lads in looking at other options. EK still high on the list of prospective employers as are the stretched Oz operators.
Stay tuned!
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
We will just have to wait and see if they are smart enough to fix it.
That being said, I know a lot of work is still being done by the lads in looking at other options. EK still high on the list of prospective employers as are the stretched Oz operators.
Stay tuned!
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
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50 commands you think?... 8 advertised for April... Wont even cover the captains leaving in January... What am I missing here? Are we going to not renew some aircraft leases or something? Or are they expecting the FCS guys to come flooding back to KA, after they reject going across to CX? Surely there is a plan somewhere? What do they have to review with the cancelled command courses? Whether there will be any FOs left to upgrade? EK must be thanking TW for the boost in their applications recently... Enjoy the sandpit guys, at least they have plans to move forward, not reduce services in the fastest growing market on earth. God help us. 
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Sandpit??
Hi Lowkoon!
Just curious, since I read some of your posts recently. Because there is nothing good about HKG and KA just wondering for whom do you work? And if it is KA/CX arenīt you leaving for something way better???
Cheers Sergiokl
Just curious, since I read some of your posts recently. Because there is nothing good about HKG and KA just wondering for whom do you work? And if it is KA/CX arenīt you leaving for something way better???
Cheers Sergiokl
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Sergiokl, feel free to pm me if you are that interested in my personal details. I dont see too many people laying out their personal details and plans for the future on prune. I dont intend to be the first.
There are a couple of ways you can effect change. You can quit, or you can work within the system to make it better. For KA to improve, we need both of these. The guys that stay, owe those that left, or are leaving, alot. Without those guys voting with their feet, nothing would happen. Be under no illusion though, those guys that left, all stand to gain from leaving too. Either in quality of life, or getting to see there families, or avoiding a divorce, or just getting to go home. Not even going to touch on the health aspects, this is about resignations at KA, not the **** we have to breathe here. see other posts for that.
Also, if there weren't guys working to improve terms and conditions from within the company, the efforts of the guys leaing would be in vain, we would probably just get the same as CX. 3%, take it, like it all lump it style. Thanks to the hard work of a lot of guys who want it to change, but want to stay, we will see improvements. It is very short sighted to infer that the only course of action available to us is to leave.
Feel free to point out where my observations of KA and HKG are wrong, and we can have an open, unemotional, impersonal constructive discussion.
There are a couple of ways you can effect change. You can quit, or you can work within the system to make it better. For KA to improve, we need both of these. The guys that stay, owe those that left, or are leaving, alot. Without those guys voting with their feet, nothing would happen. Be under no illusion though, those guys that left, all stand to gain from leaving too. Either in quality of life, or getting to see there families, or avoiding a divorce, or just getting to go home. Not even going to touch on the health aspects, this is about resignations at KA, not the **** we have to breathe here. see other posts for that.
Also, if there weren't guys working to improve terms and conditions from within the company, the efforts of the guys leaing would be in vain, we would probably just get the same as CX. 3%, take it, like it all lump it style. Thanks to the hard work of a lot of guys who want it to change, but want to stay, we will see improvements. It is very short sighted to infer that the only course of action available to us is to leave.
Feel free to point out where my observations of KA and HKG are wrong, and we can have an open, unemotional, impersonal constructive discussion.
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Hey Lowkoon
It seems we will have a lot of people to thank for voting with their feet. My intel tell me that the offer was so poor that the committee could not endorse it which is why KA went back to the drawing board and we are still waiting for the "back on board" offer.
This poor effort by management will only escalate the need and want of crews to get out of here.
Who knows we may even have to thank oursleves!
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
It seems we will have a lot of people to thank for voting with their feet. My intel tell me that the offer was so poor that the committee could not endorse it which is why KA went back to the drawing board and we are still waiting for the "back on board" offer.
This poor effort by management will only escalate the need and want of crews to get out of here.
Who knows we may even have to thank oursleves!
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
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A Knight Templar had been done in..what better offer do you think the Round Table is going to offer? Remember, it wasn't the money in the first place ..according to the training captain that resigned...
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And that training captain was right. The money wont stop people leaving. Guys will leave if the pay is increased it for A scale. The guys are leaving because they hate the job, and they are leaving for lifestyle improvements. FOs are also leaving because the company is shrinking in the most dynamic business environment that aviation has ever seen. Not a healthy sign. Locals are leaving because they are treated like second class citizens.
KA have to up the money to attract new hires. Thats there real problem. People leaving, and no one applying to replace them.They are offering an average package for a job with no growth pospects, thats the issue they need to fix.
KA have to up the money to attract new hires. Thats there real problem. People leaving, and no one applying to replace them.They are offering an average package for a job with no growth pospects, thats the issue they need to fix.
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Sorry guys, but I tend to disagree.'A scale' salary will resolve many of my problems, and those of other crew. No-one objects to working hard if getting paid enough.
Show me the Money.
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)