Resignations at KA
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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I wouldn't knock back A scale pay either, no one would, but having spoken to most, if not all the guys leaving, most of them stated they wouldn't stay even for A scale if there was no improvement on lifestyle,and the beligerant bully boy management style that exists. How much harder are you prepared to work for no improvement in rostering and late finishes and early starts surrounding single g days, and unlimited ability to extend your duty on arrival back in hong kong? Considering any payrise will be erroded by inflation and currency depreciation easily by the end of the term of the next agreement, if not already. Would this get you out of CC?
You will be ok if you are prepared to buy food from wet markets grown in the mainland. Oh hang on, their inflation is running at 4% per quater too, thanks to some pig ear disease. Delightful.
Merry Christmas everyone!
You will be ok if you are prepared to buy food from wet markets grown in the mainland. Oh hang on, their inflation is running at 4% per quater too, thanks to some pig ear disease. Delightful.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 71
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I voted with my feet in 2005... four years was all I could stand of KA's management delivery. The schoolmaster told me even then that I couldn't expect any improvement to my own 'percieved' crap lifestyle; night after night of transporting rubber dogsh1t between Shanghai and Honkers... interspersed with more nights out of bed between Taipei and Honkers; a schedule that was supposed to return into HKG at 0055L. Only about 10% of my TPE trips got back on schedule, but it was OK to carry on continuously with being late returning because it didn't count as a night sector! Yeah, right... add to that recipe some rest periods of 18 to 30 hours and you very quickly discover how tired you are. I did go sick and my doc gave me a week off, but management insisted upon a second opinion... that second opinion from the senior medical man in HKG sent me away for up to six months! True to form, crewing delighted in telling me that as per the Vol.8 that I couldn't leave the country whilst on sick leave! The senior doc soon sorted that out for me and shipped me home for some R&R. However, I had to agree to providing a weekly update to the company (KA) as to my own considered fitness to fly! CC telephoned me every other day to quiz me about my considered fitness to return to flight status... all that with a sick-note from the senior HKG medical man; it beggars belief? I happened to be in a remote area for several days where my mobile wouldn't recieve any service; however, when I did get back with signal range... I got a bollocking for missing my weekly diagnostic report!
By all accounts... nothing much has changed since my departure; however, even considering that I took a flying job that paid me 20% less than KA and that I had to pay a considerable hike in income tax... wild horses (and a payrise) wouldn't drag me back to KA.
I've had a fantastic flying job back here in the UK where my manager's have been both considerate and polite. I've had every weekend off (public holidays included) and I've worked with a bunch of great people. I'm relaxed, fit, and well, and, I look forward to going to work on a Monday morning; whatever the weather! I've now hung-up my flying jacket, but I'm about to make a move to a sunnier (tax free) climate and export some of my aviation knowledge to pilots with 'L' plates... maybe see some of you guys in DXB?
I've never regretted my exodus; there is a life beyond HKG!
Take care 'yall. Oh, yes, and I don't have to keep the Vol.8 down the back of my trousers anymore!
By all accounts... nothing much has changed since my departure; however, even considering that I took a flying job that paid me 20% less than KA and that I had to pay a considerable hike in income tax... wild horses (and a payrise) wouldn't drag me back to KA.
I've had a fantastic flying job back here in the UK where my manager's have been both considerate and polite. I've had every weekend off (public holidays included) and I've worked with a bunch of great people. I'm relaxed, fit, and well, and, I look forward to going to work on a Monday morning; whatever the weather! I've now hung-up my flying jacket, but I'm about to make a move to a sunnier (tax free) climate and export some of my aviation knowledge to pilots with 'L' plates... maybe see some of you guys in DXB?
I've never regretted my exodus; there is a life beyond HKG!
Take care 'yall. Oh, yes, and I don't have to keep the Vol.8 down the back of my trousers anymore!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: asia pacific
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The reasons people are leaving are wide and varied. There seems to be 3 core reasons 1) Salary 2) Lifestyle/rostering 3) Pollution.
Each will use one, or all of the above depending on how they feel on the day. For example, one poor chappy cited pay as the main reason for going back to Oz, but then decided that it was actually for the sake of his childrens health. I'm not saying for a minute that your families health is not important, but I think some get a bit confused with the exact reason for them leaving. The same guy said he'd probably stay if they gave us all A scale! In fact, many have said the same thing, going as far as saying that they would do anything that the company asked them!
The same guy above has hated HKG from day one, but thought it was ok to keep his family here long enough to get his gratuity! All for your families health? Yeah right...
Each will use one, or all of the above depending on how they feel on the day. For example, one poor chappy cited pay as the main reason for going back to Oz, but then decided that it was actually for the sake of his childrens health. I'm not saying for a minute that your families health is not important, but I think some get a bit confused with the exact reason for them leaving. The same guy said he'd probably stay if they gave us all A scale! In fact, many have said the same thing, going as far as saying that they would do anything that the company asked them!
The same guy above has hated HKG from day one, but thought it was ok to keep his family here long enough to get his gratuity! All for your families health? Yeah right...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fantasyland
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Each resignee has his/her own reasons for leaving.
But if you look at the resignation rate of A scale against B scale you will see a much higher percentage of resignations in the latter. I would suggest a B scale resignation rate of around 1500% greater than A scale (15-1).
So, if the companies do wish to reduce their crew losses then all they have to do is pay. That will also attract more experienced crews to apply for vacancies so that crewing numbers can be incresed, and we can all get that long sought Rostering Agreement.
Only then will all be fixed.
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
But if you look at the resignation rate of A scale against B scale you will see a much higher percentage of resignations in the latter. I would suggest a B scale resignation rate of around 1500% greater than A scale (15-1).
So, if the companies do wish to reduce their crew losses then all they have to do is pay. That will also attract more experienced crews to apply for vacancies so that crewing numbers can be incresed, and we can all get that long sought Rostering Agreement.
Only then will all be fixed.
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
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Yes Drunkenair exactly correct. Fixes aren't that hard for the 3 core problems Pay, Rosters and Pollution
1) Increase the pay. Pay or Park.
2) Fix the rostering. No more single sectors to crap hotels for hours on end, with crap transport in awful locations.
3) Have a proper basings/commuting package. Even Air China recognise they need to do this to get the correct crew.
1) Increase the pay. Pay or Park.
2) Fix the rostering. No more single sectors to crap hotels for hours on end, with crap transport in awful locations.
3) Have a proper basings/commuting package. Even Air China recognise they need to do this to get the correct crew.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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I'm amazed there are any A scalers left! Considering there is no unfair dismissal in Hong Kong as long as they give you your 3 months notice I am surprised they haven't sacked all of the A scalers!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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Time to crank this one up again, with a couple of senior captains pulling the pin this week, and quite a few more to go. Good luck gents, who's going to train the new blokes? Cathay?
Cathay?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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The departures from the freighter are about to get into high gear, with all the leaks and rumours going around. Most guys are very unhappy with the uncertainty about the future, combined with a poor pay increase and no lifestyle improvement. 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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With the managers leaping off the freighter at the rate they are, cant be too comfortable for the line guys... As usual, they are the first to know, and the first to jump. Plenty of slots on the bus. All the freighter guys coming back to hkg will be interesting. That will have the senior FOs who havent dusted off their resumes yet, off to buy printer cartridges.
Nothing like suddenly dropping another 50 - 100 seniority numbers from a command overnight to have you looking elsewhere. Especially when you realise there are no new airframes until 2012, "but only if we can crew them." Suddenly 4 years away from a narrow body command. WOOOOHOOO! Think what you could do with that 320 command on the open market! Plenty of LCCs dying to snap you up.
Nothing like suddenly dropping another 50 - 100 seniority numbers from a command overnight to have you looking elsewhere. Especially when you realise there are no new airframes until 2012, "but only if we can crew them." Suddenly 4 years away from a narrow body command. WOOOOHOOO! Think what you could do with that 320 command on the open market! Plenty of LCCs dying to snap you up.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Don't know yet
It's still all rumour, nothing has been passed down to the troops yet.
A robust defence of our rights by the DPA appears to be stalling things.
Big problems re seniority and who ends up where and in what fleet and in what company and in what seat etc etc.
We had a nice happy little base at MAN until TW demonstrated his management skills. New man then shows how much better CX are at the job!!
A robust defence of our rights by the DPA appears to be stalling things.
Big problems re seniority and who ends up where and in what fleet and in what company and in what seat etc etc.
We had a nice happy little base at MAN until TW demonstrated his management skills. New man then shows how much better CX are at the job!!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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And to top it all off, TW gets a newly created T/IRE position in MAN (the shrinking base) on the B744 fleet (the state it is in being largely attributable to his incompetence). It appears Cx have still not fully grasped the problems at KA.
Be interesting to see whether the A scalers being sent back to the Airbus fleet keep their training positions- wouldn't want to upset them by taking that away despite their being some of the poorest trainers KA have in their ranks.
Be interesting to see whether the A scalers being sent back to the Airbus fleet keep their training positions- wouldn't want to upset them by taking that away despite their being some of the poorest trainers KA have in their ranks.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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I think TW will have a lot of companionless meals down route on the freighter. He will not find many friends.
No need to send the A scalers back to the Bus, I hear the scramble to run back has already started !
No need to send the A scalers back to the Bus, I hear the scramble to run back has already started !
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The rumors are very close to the truth.
CX do not want the classic boys to come to HKG and want to put them at the bottom of the CX list and allow them to keep their basing. It will put every FO back by around 8 - 10 yrs as they will need to start climbing the SNY list again. Capts will be offered rapid uprade to command, but that has not worked well for many in the past, with high failure rates in the CX system.
And consider that many MAN based guys want to come to HKG to get a bus rating. But they will then promptly dissapear back to the EU when they have that rating, earning as much or more than what they could in CX.
The new management, supported by the AOA Pres (who desperatley needs a win) simply want the DPA to accept the deal and roll over.
Well guess what - THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. And if they try to force thier hand then the only ones to win will be the lawyers. Oh yeah, and the other airlines who are short of crews.
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
CX do not want the classic boys to come to HKG and want to put them at the bottom of the CX list and allow them to keep their basing. It will put every FO back by around 8 - 10 yrs as they will need to start climbing the SNY list again. Capts will be offered rapid uprade to command, but that has not worked well for many in the past, with high failure rates in the CX system.
And consider that many MAN based guys want to come to HKG to get a bus rating. But they will then promptly dissapear back to the EU when they have that rating, earning as much or more than what they could in CX.
The new management, supported by the AOA Pres (who desperatley needs a win) simply want the DPA to accept the deal and roll over.
Well guess what - THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. And if they try to force thier hand then the only ones to win will be the lawyers. Oh yeah, and the other airlines who are short of crews.
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Fact of the matter is that all FCS guys (no more gals there..) have the right to bid (and have to be rewarded) for an Airbus rating whether CX/KA like it or not... And yes, of course they will bugger off to a (decently) paid European job if they wish so, so?
The CX seniority list is great (not) but that would mean that KA airbus drivers will be junior to the freighter boys when they are send over to the dark side in a matter of years... Now THATS interesting........
I don't think this will be an easy one AND the DPAC won't roll over.....
Cheers boys, shame the era of 3 men 0.84 comes to an end.......
The CX seniority list is great (not) but that would mean that KA airbus drivers will be junior to the freighter boys when they are send over to the dark side in a matter of years... Now THATS interesting........
I don't think this will be an easy one AND the DPAC won't roll over.....
Cheers boys, shame the era of 3 men 0.84 comes to an end.......
