Resignations at KA
Sw re group, quick and much saver for quality guys to line.
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Sizematters
Enjoy your 3%. An educated guess tells me we will be given a lot more than 3%. Reason? Pilots leaving (many of them Captains) at a faster rate than they can be recruited and services cancelled.
Mini Cooper
New services to Busan, Fukuoka, Sendai and shortly Kathmandu are all operated by KA aircraft and KA crews. What are you talking about? It's you that doesn't get it. The whole CX strategy for HKG is based on sucking revenue i.e. transfer pax out of China and booking them through Hong Kong on to the CX network. That's why they bought Dragonair - not the slots. The brand is well known on the mainland and as long as they sort out the mess at KA the big plan will work. If they don't KA will implode within 3-9 months. At that point the price paid for KA would look a little over the top.
Now I'm sure in the long term CX would eventually mop up the mess and would be happy to start a shorthaul network in China. But why would the Swire group do that when they have just bought one?
The KA pilot group are quite happy to crack on with the job but only if we're getting a fair deal. If we don't get it we WILL leave. Reason? Most of us have got medium/heavy jet command time so it's easy. This isn't CX and we're not tied to a so called 'career'. We're here for one reason only - MONEY. At the moment the majority of the company are working on exit plans. I just hope for Cathay's sake it's not too little too late.
You lot over the road need to stop being so arrogant, you might find we are paid more than you shortly. After all, we work harder and fly to crap destinations in China - something you seem to aspire to........
Enjoy your 3%. An educated guess tells me we will be given a lot more than 3%. Reason? Pilots leaving (many of them Captains) at a faster rate than they can be recruited and services cancelled.
Mini Cooper
New services to Busan, Fukuoka, Sendai and shortly Kathmandu are all operated by KA aircraft and KA crews. What are you talking about? It's you that doesn't get it. The whole CX strategy for HKG is based on sucking revenue i.e. transfer pax out of China and booking them through Hong Kong on to the CX network. That's why they bought Dragonair - not the slots. The brand is well known on the mainland and as long as they sort out the mess at KA the big plan will work. If they don't KA will implode within 3-9 months. At that point the price paid for KA would look a little over the top.
Now I'm sure in the long term CX would eventually mop up the mess and would be happy to start a shorthaul network in China. But why would the Swire group do that when they have just bought one?
The KA pilot group are quite happy to crack on with the job but only if we're getting a fair deal. If we don't get it we WILL leave. Reason? Most of us have got medium/heavy jet command time so it's easy. This isn't CX and we're not tied to a so called 'career'. We're here for one reason only - MONEY. At the moment the majority of the company are working on exit plans. I just hope for Cathay's sake it's not too little too late.
You lot over the road need to stop being so arrogant, you might find we are paid more than you shortly. After all, we work harder and fly to crap destinations in China - something you seem to aspire to........
Vermin, Lowkoon, and a few other very vocal Ppruners,
You guys have been very very vocal for quite a long period of time now about how bad it is, particularly you Vermin. With all your talk of how bad it is, how there's jobs everywhere, how we can all walk at any time - just why are you guys still here????? You are easily the most vocal about how bad it is yet you're still here whilst other guys (12%) have just quietly gone off and voted with their hoofs. What ARE you waiting for???
You guys have been very very vocal for quite a long period of time now about how bad it is, particularly you Vermin. With all your talk of how bad it is, how there's jobs everywhere, how we can all walk at any time - just why are you guys still here????? You are easily the most vocal about how bad it is yet you're still here whilst other guys (12%) have just quietly gone off and voted with their hoofs. What ARE you waiting for???
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F-16
An average month would give us 7-9 days off. Most of the time before you have day off you will finish between 2000-2300. Not so many early starts.
On 320 you might do 4 sector days but not on A330. Usually you do 5-6 days on with a few rosterchanges 1-3 days off and then the same again.
On A330 you will spend more than 300 hours away from base with no OT. The roster will change almost every 2-3 days so you can never make any plans.
Usually days are fairly long between 8-13 hours. Nightstops are bad with strange hotels in suburbs around in Asia with Cabin crew that don't want to meet up.
Overall the KA gig when it comes to roster is probably one of the worst but we do have more than 10 weeks leave a year. Most guys use some sickleave to balance lifestyle also.
Money is not so good any longer and thats why most guys are planning their exit.
An average month would give us 7-9 days off. Most of the time before you have day off you will finish between 2000-2300. Not so many early starts.
On 320 you might do 4 sector days but not on A330. Usually you do 5-6 days on with a few rosterchanges 1-3 days off and then the same again.
On A330 you will spend more than 300 hours away from base with no OT. The roster will change almost every 2-3 days so you can never make any plans.
Usually days are fairly long between 8-13 hours. Nightstops are bad with strange hotels in suburbs around in Asia with Cabin crew that don't want to meet up.
Overall the KA gig when it comes to roster is probably one of the worst but we do have more than 10 weeks leave a year. Most guys use some sickleave to balance lifestyle also.
Money is not so good any longer and thats why most guys are planning their exit.
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Another for the wish list. The things that cost nothing. Is an end to the 'special rostering' for some. The guys that get the least overnights but somehow blessed with more standby days. Overtime is far from consistent.
I hear it is worse on the 320.
1- J Class ID 90
2- Equitable rostering and no special favours.
And everything the DPA asked for.
I want to help.
I hear it is worse on the 320.
1- J Class ID 90
2- Equitable rostering and no special favours.
And everything the DPA asked for.
I want to help.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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Trevor, its sweet that you want to get to know me more intimately, but trust me big fella, Im not your type! 
In all seriousness though, my family and friends know my plans for the future very well. If I have flown with you, then you probably know it too. I appreciate that your observations of life at Ka may differ from mine, feel free to post them here, give potential new hires a balanced perspective if you think thats what is missing from a thread titled "Resignations at KA".
If you dont like it you can leave right Trev? Sounds vaguely familiar...
In all seriousness though, my family and friends know my plans for the future very well. If I have flown with you, then you probably know it too. I appreciate that your observations of life at Ka may differ from mine, feel free to post them here, give potential new hires a balanced perspective if you think thats what is missing from a thread titled "Resignations at KA".
If you dont like it you can leave right Trev? Sounds vaguely familiar...
Lowkoon,
1. What the hell are you on about, what is this "want to get to know you better rubbish." Just where have you dredged up that pearl from?
2. Thank you that you appreciate that I may have a different opinion to you regarding life at KA. I don't actually (which is why I at least have resigned) I didn't insinuate that. I AM insinuating that for a long time you have told the world how bad it is, but unlike me, you seem to be stickin' around. Of course you may be digging a tunnel out, that's not for me to know, but bloody hell, its taking a freakin long time.
As I said, I agree with most of the comments about KA, and I for one do not have any opinions to "balance" against these.
3. Yes, that old line, if you don't like it you can leave - the circle is complete, it gets back to the question to you on my post - for soooooooo long now you have told the world how bad it is and how we can all walk in the job rich environment, but you are still here.
4. I am sure we have flown together, or at least know each other well - and I am equally sure we probably like each other and get on like a house on fire.
Trev
1. What the hell are you on about, what is this "want to get to know you better rubbish." Just where have you dredged up that pearl from?
2. Thank you that you appreciate that I may have a different opinion to you regarding life at KA. I don't actually (which is why I at least have resigned) I didn't insinuate that. I AM insinuating that for a long time you have told the world how bad it is, but unlike me, you seem to be stickin' around. Of course you may be digging a tunnel out, that's not for me to know, but bloody hell, its taking a freakin long time.
As I said, I agree with most of the comments about KA, and I for one do not have any opinions to "balance" against these.
3. Yes, that old line, if you don't like it you can leave - the circle is complete, it gets back to the question to you on my post - for soooooooo long now you have told the world how bad it is and how we can all walk in the job rich environment, but you are still here.
4. I am sure we have flown together, or at least know each other well - and I am equally sure we probably like each other and get on like a house on fire.
Trev
Lowkoon,
As you know verbal intent is lost with the written word. I wasn't trying to impy if you don't like it leave - not at all. I was actually trying to get at your reasons for still being here - ie, kids two years to go in school, 500 more wide body command hours. Everyone does have their reasons.
Dan Buster,
Great post mate!
As you know verbal intent is lost with the written word. I wasn't trying to impy if you don't like it leave - not at all. I was actually trying to get at your reasons for still being here - ie, kids two years to go in school, 500 more wide body command hours. Everyone does have their reasons.
Dan Buster,
Great post mate!
We get 6 weeks a year with the option to append days off to these periods.
The combination can then be approx 10 weeks max.
Nothing is free as we all know, and going without your days off for the remaining period can leave you wrecked prior to your leave. The company also has an unwritten policy of cramming a months work into the remaining weeks further adding to the fatigue levels.
The combination can then be approx 10 weeks max.
Nothing is free as we all know, and going without your days off for the remaining period can leave you wrecked prior to your leave. The company also has an unwritten policy of cramming a months work into the remaining weeks further adding to the fatigue levels.
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I thought that was the case as I had heard a Dragonair guy saying they could take a week off every month by taking 4 days leave and then appending 3 days off (G days) to it.
The CX guys in the conversation all looked at the bottom of their glasses as they had visions of an 8 day pattern followed by 3 days off followed by 4days leave and then a further 8 day pattern..... no wonder you guys are leaving.
Whilst not knocking the ability to append G-days to leave; G days can easily become leave days in the company's eyes.
The CX guys in the conversation all looked at the bottom of their glasses as they had visions of an 8 day pattern followed by 3 days off followed by 4days leave and then a further 8 day pattern..... no wonder you guys are leaving.
Whilst not knocking the ability to append G-days to leave; G days can easily become leave days in the company's eyes.
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Liam,
Just to clarify the leave question, you should note that KA crews can bid for up to 10 lots of leave of 4 days to which the company will append 3 G (no duty) days. If one bids and is awarded this leave we can expect we will get roughly an additional 4 G days off for the remainder of the month.
That means a total of about 11 days off, inlcuding your 1 weeks leave, in a month, and you will still do either 70+ hours (320) or be away for 10 nights (330) for the remainder of the month.
And realise the fact that to be eligible to get this 'generous' leave you must bid for it prior to September the previous year. They then
allocate according to fleet/seat/seniority and a points system. Senior guys get around 6 or 7 periods approved while the junior guys get 2 or 3 approved, if lucky.
Oh yeah, and if you happen to miss out on bidding, or are employed after September so are unable to place bids, then your leave is allocated at their discretion, and usually with no consultation. In some cases the first you know of it is when it appears on your roster. Some guys only get 7 days notice!
And any leave can be used as part of the recovery and min rest periods between flights. And there is no guarantee of additional G days appended to any leave allocated you.
Still sound OK??
Don't just take passing comments around the bar as Gospel, and look into the claims fully before you make any grandoise judgement.
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
Just to clarify the leave question, you should note that KA crews can bid for up to 10 lots of leave of 4 days to which the company will append 3 G (no duty) days. If one bids and is awarded this leave we can expect we will get roughly an additional 4 G days off for the remainder of the month.
That means a total of about 11 days off, inlcuding your 1 weeks leave, in a month, and you will still do either 70+ hours (320) or be away for 10 nights (330) for the remainder of the month.
And realise the fact that to be eligible to get this 'generous' leave you must bid for it prior to September the previous year. They then
allocate according to fleet/seat/seniority and a points system. Senior guys get around 6 or 7 periods approved while the junior guys get 2 or 3 approved, if lucky.
Oh yeah, and if you happen to miss out on bidding, or are employed after September so are unable to place bids, then your leave is allocated at their discretion, and usually with no consultation. In some cases the first you know of it is when it appears on your roster. Some guys only get 7 days notice!
And any leave can be used as part of the recovery and min rest periods between flights. And there is no guarantee of additional G days appended to any leave allocated you.
Still sound OK??
Don't just take passing comments around the bar as Gospel, and look into the claims fully before you make any grandoise judgement.
Cheers
Drunkenair (hic)
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Drunkenair
"Don't just take passing comments around the bar as Gospel, and look into the claims fully before you make any grandoise judgement"
Just so we understand each other... no grandoise judgement, but one of your colleagues (KA-life) stated he gets 10 weeks leave, which on first pass, sounds good. Clearly, his view of what constitutes leave is different from mine (and I suspect yours).
Whilst the scheme assists people to get a block of days off per month, (which I applaud) it comes at a heck of a cost.
"Still sound OK?" It didn't sound OK the first time I heard of it, hence the reason myself and the others looked into the bottom of our beer glasses and the reason our astute friend The Management has shown some interest.
Just so we understand each other... no grandoise judgement, but one of your colleagues (KA-life) stated he gets 10 weeks leave, which on first pass, sounds good. Clearly, his view of what constitutes leave is different from mine (and I suspect yours).
Whilst the scheme assists people to get a block of days off per month, (which I applaud) it comes at a heck of a cost.
"Still sound OK?" It didn't sound OK the first time I heard of it, hence the reason myself and the others looked into the bottom of our beer glasses and the reason our astute friend The Management has shown some interest.
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No Bank Holidays
And don't forget that the 42 days a year leave includes the bank holidays which pilots are rostered for like any other day, what, 10 a year? So 32 days is less than 5 weeks. As with everything in life it depends how you look at it.
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abc1....So how many of you guys would actually do something about it and leave....
Oh, about 12% of the pilot workforce in the last 3 months with more to come.
Is that enough for you?
Oh, about 12% of the pilot workforce in the last 3 months with more to come.
Is that enough for you?
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Its been very quiet since some muppets got "free drinks" Boocs. Alas now the honeymoon is over. In the bible the Saviour healed the sick, In KA the one they believed was the saviour "sacked the sick". That was excellent timing Dick. As the Mai Tai`s et al were being savoured by the those who graced Dick with their presence, Pilots on long term sick leave were being terminated.
Next step, retire the clasic freighter fleet 11 months earlier than planned. Crews were told by an email confirming a "Rumour". For the FE's, years of loyal service thanked with a "rumour confirmed".
Now the "new Dawn" has been realised. There is no magic bullet. There is no Roster improvement, There is no pay offer on the table. There is just talk, stalling, playing for time and the last few scraps of meat being sliced from the KA Carcass.
And lets not forget the freindly advice being meted out out by KA senior managers "Whatever you guys do, dont turn down the companies offer". Realisation is sinking in amongst the troops, resignations are gearing up again.
Next step, retire the clasic freighter fleet 11 months earlier than planned. Crews were told by an email confirming a "Rumour". For the FE's, years of loyal service thanked with a "rumour confirmed".
Now the "new Dawn" has been realised. There is no magic bullet. There is no Roster improvement, There is no pay offer on the table. There is just talk, stalling, playing for time and the last few scraps of meat being sliced from the KA Carcass.
And lets not forget the freindly advice being meted out out by KA senior managers "Whatever you guys do, dont turn down the companies offer". Realisation is sinking in amongst the troops, resignations are gearing up again.
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CX did not go to fix Dragon, they only went to "Find Out why they are leaving". It is rumored that after 3 weeks they still cannot figure it out!!!
They cannot believe that someone is not prepared to work for nothing just because they are Cathay!!!
Nick has spoken at Kitty city saying that if we give them a big raise we are going to have to give one to everyone else.
So guys do not expect CX to come with a better offer because they will not...cannot set the precedent!!!
They cannot believe that someone is not prepared to work for nothing just because they are Cathay!!!
Nick has spoken at Kitty city saying that if we give them a big raise we are going to have to give one to everyone else.
So guys do not expect CX to come with a better offer because they will not...cannot set the precedent!!!