COS 08 - new info just in
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COS 08 - new info just in
Ladies and Gentlemen
COMPANY PROPOSALS ON PAY AND CONDITIONS OF SERVICE
After careful consideration of the recent pay and COS offer, the General Committee has by a majority voted against recommending ratification of the proposals.
The DFO has been informed of the outcome of the GC vote. We will advise you of any response in due course.
A more detailed explanation of the GC decision will follow shortly.
Regards
Steve Turner
President
14 August 2007
COMPANY PROPOSALS ON PAY AND CONDITIONS OF SERVICE
After careful consideration of the recent pay and COS offer, the General Committee has by a majority voted against recommending ratification of the proposals.
The DFO has been informed of the outcome of the GC vote. We will advise you of any response in due course.
A more detailed explanation of the GC decision will follow shortly.
Regards
Steve Turner
President
14 August 2007
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The Way Forward
This is great news IF it is true but I can't see any announcement on the AOA website yet??? Call me cynical but this is PPRuNe after all!!!
Hopefully it is and it is an indication that the GC now realise the divisive and corrosive effect that our inequitous pay structure is having upon the morale of its membership.
The way forward should involve each and every one of us letting our representatives know what our realistic expectations are for the next round of 'negotiations'. Here are mine:
1. A-scale and B-scale merged at CN1 - Same seat, Same salary!
2. B-scale for all FOs including DEFOs - Same seat, Same salary!
3. NO Freighter scale - Same seat, Same salary!
Simple really.
Remember this IS it, there will be NO later!
Hopefully it is and it is an indication that the GC now realise the divisive and corrosive effect that our inequitous pay structure is having upon the morale of its membership.
The way forward should involve each and every one of us letting our representatives know what our realistic expectations are for the next round of 'negotiations'. Here are mine:
1. A-scale and B-scale merged at CN1 - Same seat, Same salary!
2. B-scale for all FOs including DEFOs - Same seat, Same salary!
3. NO Freighter scale - Same seat, Same salary!
Simple really.
Remember this IS it, there will be NO later!
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Giggleswick, have you taken that suggestion to the AOA? If so what did they say, if not let us know when you do and what they say. Looks like a good start and may actually get a unified pilot body, the last thing the company wants! I'm all for it!!!
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SMOC
No I haven't put this forward to the GC yet as I figure they get regular feedback from this site already. I would however like to see them canvas the membership for their opinions before entering the next 'round' of negotiations . I believe the 'cloak of secrecy' surrounding this fiasco has backfired upon us. It has excluded the membership from the process and created an uneasy feeling of complicity between the two sides. I for one felt like we were about to be 'sold out' even before the shocking details emerged! This is NOT how it should be. The GC should first and foremost put OUR interests ahead of a desire to maintain a cosy, collegiate relationship with the company. The GMA's hitman, STENgun, and his ilk are employed to cultivate this 'for the greater good' atmosphere and then exploit it ruthlessly. These guys are as cunning as jailhouse rats! If you don't believe me consider this glimpse into the future:
Transcription of conversation between the President of the AOA and NR sometime towards the end of 2009!
President: "...thanks Nick, now with the end of our two year pay deal rapidly approaching don't you think we should set aside some time to gather around the table and 'thrash' out another?
NR: "....doesn't time fly while one's 'hedging' one's bonus Mr President. Sorry, you're right of course, we are approaching THAT time again but there are some ISSUES which we need to address first"
President: "..But these are simply pay talks Nick, I thought we dealt with all the ISSUES back in 2007."
NR: " ..you're right of course we certainly resolved SOME back then but I'd really like to RE-VISIT Housing, Education and ROSTERING PRACTICES. I think there are some major concessions which you could offer us which would smooooooth the way forward towards scheduling talks"
President: ".. thanks Nick, I'll talk with the GC then canvas the membership to find out what they are willing to accept"
NR: "..don't waste your time Mr President, just tell me what you can bring to the table this time around"
President: "...umm, well let me see Nick, back in 2007 we GAVE you RA65, we GAVE you the FACA and we GAVE you our DEFO agreement in return for a 10% payrise over eight years ('01-'09). We don't have anything left to give except our kidneys of course!"
NR: "..I figured that Mr President, let me talk with CAD Medical and see if we can get a dispensation for these. Be in touch."
Sound credible?!
Same Seat, Same Salary, No Compromise!
Transcription of conversation between the President of the AOA and NR sometime towards the end of 2009!
President: "...thanks Nick, now with the end of our two year pay deal rapidly approaching don't you think we should set aside some time to gather around the table and 'thrash' out another?
NR: "....doesn't time fly while one's 'hedging' one's bonus Mr President. Sorry, you're right of course, we are approaching THAT time again but there are some ISSUES which we need to address first"
President: "..But these are simply pay talks Nick, I thought we dealt with all the ISSUES back in 2007."
NR: " ..you're right of course we certainly resolved SOME back then but I'd really like to RE-VISIT Housing, Education and ROSTERING PRACTICES. I think there are some major concessions which you could offer us which would smooooooth the way forward towards scheduling talks"
President: ".. thanks Nick, I'll talk with the GC then canvas the membership to find out what they are willing to accept"
NR: "..don't waste your time Mr President, just tell me what you can bring to the table this time around"
President: "...umm, well let me see Nick, back in 2007 we GAVE you RA65, we GAVE you the FACA and we GAVE you our DEFO agreement in return for a 10% payrise over eight years ('01-'09). We don't have anything left to give except our kidneys of course!"
NR: "..I figured that Mr President, let me talk with CAD Medical and see if we can get a dispensation for these. Be in touch."
Sound credible?!
Same Seat, Same Salary, No Compromise!
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Giggleswick
You have advanced a very clear proposal (with the implication that pay should be dealt with, independently), and I commend you. The strength of your plan is that it puts the spirit of unity into practice
I have one question, however: by including DEFO pay, across the board, are you not, inadvertantly, introducing a (yet unresolved) CoS item into your pay proposal? My concern is the negative impact (on advancement) on our SO's. If we are to aim for unity for the pilot group, best to include everyone, no?
Have I misunderstood?
ColdWar
I have one question, however: by including DEFO pay, across the board, are you not, inadvertantly, introducing a (yet unresolved) CoS item into your pay proposal? My concern is the negative impact (on advancement) on our SO's. If we are to aim for unity for the pilot group, best to include everyone, no?
Have I misunderstood?
ColdWar
Giggles
you see things with a wonderful clarity...sounds like the plan to me 
just incidentally when the company want to discuss flight time limits,cos or housing (or anything at all) they REFUSE to lump pay scales or anything we'd like to see changed into the argument.....how is it we have to consider changes to just about everything when they feel like talking?
just incidentally when the company want to discuss flight time limits,cos or housing (or anything at all) they REFUSE to lump pay scales or anything we'd like to see changed into the argument.....how is it we have to consider changes to just about everything when they feel like talking?
New Offer Just In
We have reconsidered our offer and have amended the terms.
All current A-scale will be allowed to retire and fade away at 55.
The money we save will fund a massive DEFO recruitment
Future Command promotions will be DE for freighters onto a base or from the DEFO pool already on the base...experience level requirements amended from 'time to time'
All hong kong based crew remaining after A scalers are gone will be forced onto a base and allowed to continue to 65 on current pay.(-20% basing cut)
All hkg crews reaching 55 will have to resign.
All pay and conditions frozen.
We already have 49 names picked out if you don't like it.
Have a nice life.
All current A-scale will be allowed to retire and fade away at 55.
The money we save will fund a massive DEFO recruitment
Future Command promotions will be DE for freighters onto a base or from the DEFO pool already on the base...experience level requirements amended from 'time to time'
All hong kong based crew remaining after A scalers are gone will be forced onto a base and allowed to continue to 65 on current pay.(-20% basing cut)
All hkg crews reaching 55 will have to resign.
All pay and conditions frozen.
We already have 49 names picked out if you don't like it.
Have a nice life.
Quote Harbour Dweller: 'Congratulations to the GC for rejecting what has to be one of the worse deals ever offered to a pilot body.'
You obviously haven't seen the KA offer then!
You obviously haven't seen the KA offer then!
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To be honest, even though the CoS08 is crap, I got this feeling that we will not get any improved offer or even any more offer at all, especially now that we have rejected the company initial proposal. But I could be wrong.
bus
bus
Last edited by BusBusBus; 16th Aug 2007 at 08:44.
Negotiations Process
I'm a bit confused(as usual) about how this process has been developed.
The GC and the company bang heads for 2-3 months but the union membership have no prelim. input as to what gets talked about.And of course neither 'side' can utter a peep..'oh no' while talks are going on.. to protect what exactly?Why can't members have a say all along the way and stop all the time being wasted discussing any option that is already totally unacceptable?
Why does the GC have to ratify anything?Why not pass on the deal for a vote and just shut up..let the members ratify it..or not.Duh.."it's the best we could get" duh "there's only so much money in the bucket"...hello! close to 7 BILLION this year alone after tax.
The GMA just issued a statement that the 'conditions of the talks included agreement/ratification from the GC before an offer was made public'?????
And now..without any reference to the union membership at all..the GC 'pulls the plug' ..based on what exactly....two weeks of speculative comment on pprune?
The members know very well what is ball park acceptable and now everyone is grossly pissed off before the game has really even begun...with a crap deal(did you really expect anything else)offered.
This is not gamesmanship..it's just a waste of time and the only winners are the company dragging everyone along on pay issues that should have been addressed 10 years ago.
The lesser ranks only want pay to catch up they're not asking for the moon.And protection of current employees against being outranked/outpaid and promoted over by direct entry el cheapo's once again...not to mention them nicking all our basings that we've worked years to go on ourselves.
How f**king simple is that???
Get on with it.
The GC and the company bang heads for 2-3 months but the union membership have no prelim. input as to what gets talked about.And of course neither 'side' can utter a peep..'oh no' while talks are going on.. to protect what exactly?Why can't members have a say all along the way and stop all the time being wasted discussing any option that is already totally unacceptable?
Why does the GC have to ratify anything?Why not pass on the deal for a vote and just shut up..let the members ratify it..or not.Duh.."it's the best we could get" duh "there's only so much money in the bucket"...hello! close to 7 BILLION this year alone after tax.
The GMA just issued a statement that the 'conditions of the talks included agreement/ratification from the GC before an offer was made public'?????
And now..without any reference to the union membership at all..the GC 'pulls the plug' ..based on what exactly....two weeks of speculative comment on pprune?
The members know very well what is ball park acceptable and now everyone is grossly pissed off before the game has really even begun...with a crap deal(did you really expect anything else)offered.
This is not gamesmanship..it's just a waste of time and the only winners are the company dragging everyone along on pay issues that should have been addressed 10 years ago.
The lesser ranks only want pay to catch up they're not asking for the moon.And protection of current employees against being outranked/outpaid and promoted over by direct entry el cheapo's once again...not to mention them nicking all our basings that we've worked years to go on ourselves.
How f**king simple is that???
Get on with it.