COS 08 - new info just in

[CYRILJGROOVE]

BLUNDERBUS my dear chap,

I agree with the vast majority of what you have said recently, the delivery is a bit rough, but it is honest and in the main pretty accurate. However you are wrong regarding the member input prior to negotiations. There are many forums open on the AOA website on all kinds of topics, its just that they are not available to non members and I think I read you quit based on some single issue that ticked you off some time ago.

The company apparantly insisted that the CG recommend the deal and that was a pre condition, personally I think that is a bit odd but hey thats CX mismanagements method of negotiation, so now they can blame the GC and offer the deal individually, probably watered down just to jam it in a little because they cannot help themselves.

I hope as many crew as possible join the union to have a collective say in our destiny, but one thing is for sure those not in the union have no influence or in particular a vote on what is of vital importance to all our futures.

[Peebee and Jay]

I hope as many crew as possible join the union to have a collective say in our destiny, but one thing is for sure those not in the union have no influence or in particular a vote on what is of vital importance to all our futures.

Well said. We have to get the membership numbers up. This affects all of us and everyone that plans to join CX in the future. Forget the past ("mistakes" made by the AOA) and think about the future. Our GC needs the support of the MAJORITY of the pilot body. We give them the power they need to negotiate.

To the guys that are willing to fall on their swords i.e look for better employment at EK or wherever, sit on your hands and think carefully. If it is for personal reasons and not to punish or spite CX, then go for it and best of luck to you. If you're doing it to spite CX, think again. It will take a mass exodus to get their attention.

Well done to the GC.
Keep the applications coming.

[BusBusBus]

The GMA just issued a statement that the 'conditions of the talks included agreement/ratification from the GC before an offer was made public'?????

The company apparantly insisted that the CG recommend the deal and that was a pre condition, personally I think that is a bit odd but hey thats CX mismanagements method of negotiation, so now they can blame the GC and offer the deal individually, probably watered down just to jam it in a little because they cannot help themselves.

I think the company want the GC to recommend the deals before it is made public because it is part their negotiating strategy. If the GC accept the deal and let the members vote, the members will blame GC for accepting such a crappy deal (ie: smash the credibility of the GC). If the GC rejects the deal before voting, the company can now go to the world of public opinion and tell the world that all these rich spoil pilots and their union are still complaining even though we offer them a 11.5% pay increase over two years (Base + HDP 84 hrs max, and mind you this is what the company will quote to the press if they have to, and they could possibly quote more. The company can quote more if you consider A-scale over 55 salary now vs after the deal). Either way, it will hurt the AoA and bonus point for the company. Think about it guys, Swire and CX managements are good at what they do, that's how they make so much money. CX and Swire is very good at making themselves look good while painting a bad picture for others. They are also very good at the divide, crush and conquer strategy. Based on the current pilot demographic, with A-scale, B-scale, Freighter scale, and everyone on different base with different salary scale, AoA members, non-AoA members, Local Pilots, old A-scaler over 55 that at now on B-scale, etc... This makes it very difficult for us to negotiate because everyone want something different, the company knows this (they created this system). When one group is happy, the others are not, it is almost impossible to satisified everyone. In order to have any reasonable starts, the GC need to figure out what is the priority for each group and base the negotiations around these priorities. This way, everyone will get something and it will probably increase the AoA practicipation rate in the future, thus allow the AoA to have a better negotiating power. To be honest guys, I really don't think we will be able to squeeze too much from the company at this negotiations, but if we are smart about what we do this time and fix some of the problems, we might be able to get more down the road in two years time.

bus

[XCX-SOHAPPY]

All this talks about VOTING?? What VOTING are you guys talking about? You have no union, no rights...what exact power do you think you guys have that could force the company to agree to anything? If CX wants to pay you fellas less money, that's what they'll do. Why moan about it? They'll just fire some people to make examples then all will follow suit.

This is not to make anyone upset, but isn't that the fact of life in Hong Kong? When was the last time the AOA got you guys anything, except for paycuts and lost jobs?

[cpdude]

I think the GC did a wonderful job and saved us two months of waiting to determine the same outcome.

Good on ya GC!

[Frogman1484]

I thank the GC for rejecting this offer...now I can still say that the GC is looking after the majority of the crew and not only the most senior.

[Rice Pudding]

Thanks to the HKAOA

This offer was simply the best that company were prepared to present at the present time. Great to all those who saw it for what it was and wrote to the union. Thanks to the HKAOA firstly for presenting it to the members, and secondly for responding to our requests to have it binned.

This offer was about crewing new airplanes, not about the pay rise that we asked for.

Extending A scalers is an effective way to increase the work force, whilst meeting employment laws, and getting the pilots to ratify it also cunningly does away with bypass pay.

Lets now get back to negotiating the pay raise that is long overdue. When thats finished (and when we're all happy with it) there will be plenty of time to negotiate other company wish lists.

[Peebee and Jay]

Well done to the GC

To the GC, I thank you for rejecting the "offer". Can't believe that NR is surprised and "disappointed"? The negotiation was supposed to be about our salary. NOT about crewing aircraft and retirement age (thrown in to cloud the negotiations). We have to stick to the topic. We have to avoid a repeat of RP07, and not allow them to get what they want by offering something worse and "forcing" us to accept the first deal. We have talked about housing and RP's, the time has come to talk about money. The retirement age will be enforced at a later stage ... but not now.

Show me the money!

"Hans! Bring the steamroller!"