Leaving CX.
Living with Tourettes
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A lot of people talk about leaving. Until you have actually done it, talk is cheap and is what Cathay does best. Blow hot air. Unfortunately they are not aware that their is a hole in the top of their baloon!
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Of course everyone is happy in the cockpit. If it showed they were unhappy we would Cat B the F/O or S/O’s in question. You see, we have the control and that is what we are good at. Living in fear of being terminated is a great motivator.
As an F/O or S/O, would it be wise to put it on paper or tell someone you are not happy with a Trainer or Checker. Ask the pilots who disagreed with some of our C&T’s. They are now Cat B’d for 3 years for an attitude adjustment. Of course everyone is happy. Keeps the pilot’s inline. How many are those 3 year Cat B pilots complaining now.
Rule by intimidation and fear.
As for more terminations, it is coming. We will do it different this time to avoid the legal battle. It is very simple to target someone and roster a termination simulator. Our Flying Managers are only too happy to carry out this duty.
It is trouble-free to hire a Private Investigator as we have done in the past. The dividends that pay off when we terminate someone is enormous with regard to having a compliant workforce. Very simple to select someone who has had an argument with staff travel or over a housing issue, which in itself is cause for termination, so beware.
Conduct unbecoming is open to OUR interpretation.
Nothing is changing for the better. We will have you down to the contract that we want in the near future.
As for a pay rise, we are willing to give a pay rise based on 50 hours and an hourly rate above that threshold to the usual 84 hours. Overtime will be paid above 84 hours but on a reduced rate. It is coming. If you fly 50 hours you get the base rate. If you fly 60, you receive pay for 50 hours and 10 hours of our hourly rate, 70 hours, etc.
Keep smiling in the cockpit and keep your head down, if not, you will pay.
We have the best Check & Trainers in the industry at The Cathay Pacific Group. It is a very sought after position with very good pay and benefits which only attracts the best. Those that complain about the Checking and Training system are most likely the mediocre pilots that slipped through our system. If those pilots wish to leave, we are only too happy. We usually are able to convince some of these resignees to maintain their employment with The Cathay Pacific Group.
We have many applications and will be hiring 250 pilots this year in various positions and bases. Many lower time pilots are very keen to join The Cathay Pacific Group. So we lose some pilots but more join on lower conditions, we win. Our Training Staff are more than willing to train these new pilots.
We are not concerned if we lose pilots from all positions (Captains, F/O’s or S/O’s). It will not force us to increase your package as some may think (pilot forces). It’s only going to get worse for the pilot group, not better.
The Management
As an F/O or S/O, would it be wise to put it on paper or tell someone you are not happy with a Trainer or Checker. Ask the pilots who disagreed with some of our C&T’s. They are now Cat B’d for 3 years for an attitude adjustment. Of course everyone is happy. Keeps the pilot’s inline. How many are those 3 year Cat B pilots complaining now.
Rule by intimidation and fear.
As for more terminations, it is coming. We will do it different this time to avoid the legal battle. It is very simple to target someone and roster a termination simulator. Our Flying Managers are only too happy to carry out this duty.
It is trouble-free to hire a Private Investigator as we have done in the past. The dividends that pay off when we terminate someone is enormous with regard to having a compliant workforce. Very simple to select someone who has had an argument with staff travel or over a housing issue, which in itself is cause for termination, so beware.
Conduct unbecoming is open to OUR interpretation.
Nothing is changing for the better. We will have you down to the contract that we want in the near future.
As for a pay rise, we are willing to give a pay rise based on 50 hours and an hourly rate above that threshold to the usual 84 hours. Overtime will be paid above 84 hours but on a reduced rate. It is coming. If you fly 50 hours you get the base rate. If you fly 60, you receive pay for 50 hours and 10 hours of our hourly rate, 70 hours, etc.
Keep smiling in the cockpit and keep your head down, if not, you will pay.
We have the best Check & Trainers in the industry at The Cathay Pacific Group. It is a very sought after position with very good pay and benefits which only attracts the best. Those that complain about the Checking and Training system are most likely the mediocre pilots that slipped through our system. If those pilots wish to leave, we are only too happy. We usually are able to convince some of these resignees to maintain their employment with The Cathay Pacific Group.
We have many applications and will be hiring 250 pilots this year in various positions and bases. Many lower time pilots are very keen to join The Cathay Pacific Group. So we lose some pilots but more join on lower conditions, we win. Our Training Staff are more than willing to train these new pilots.
We are not concerned if we lose pilots from all positions (Captains, F/O’s or S/O’s). It will not force us to increase your package as some may think (pilot forces). It’s only going to get worse for the pilot group, not better.
The Management
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I'll start this with the old, "..watching for a while, new to post" quote. H23: you've made your point. I understand you don't like it here and therefore you're leaving. That's fine. Please do so, it's your right. You are going on a bit though. BusyB: I've read a lot of your posts. You are way above getting dragged into a scrap with H23. Remember in the battle of wits, he appears unarmed and quite emotional. It's not fair of you two to engage.
I've been here 10 years plus. I consider myself easy going and I really can't imagine I've upset any of my crew. As far as I'm concerned, all we're trying to do is take an airplane from A to B, safely and have a good time in the process. In my previous life that phase was called domestics. The meat was using the airplane to do a job (air to air etc).
However, I'm no happy camper either. I'm a bit entrenched with family commitments and am not as flexible as most. I've also not made a war chest of money in my time, so a move is not an easy decision. But, I find for the first time that I've started cruising other airline websites for employment information. I've let my previous licences expire so I hold only a HKATPL. I guess my question is: can I apply directly to carriers such as Korean/JAL etc without having to go through brokers (they appear to want a huge commission)? Are there any other airlines or Netjet equivalents who want a 40 year old, 12000 hour Skipper with Airbus, Classic, Herc and fighter time.
I feel this company isn't up to par with most any more and they won't change until a few us start to leave. Of course it would be nice if others did the leaving so that I can reap the benefit, but I think I'm due a change anyway. Sorry for the drivel; I'm sure I'll get the hang of posting. Just voicing my dissatisfaction without the whinging.
Ta!
I've been here 10 years plus. I consider myself easy going and I really can't imagine I've upset any of my crew. As far as I'm concerned, all we're trying to do is take an airplane from A to B, safely and have a good time in the process. In my previous life that phase was called domestics. The meat was using the airplane to do a job (air to air etc).
However, I'm no happy camper either. I'm a bit entrenched with family commitments and am not as flexible as most. I've also not made a war chest of money in my time, so a move is not an easy decision. But, I find for the first time that I've started cruising other airline websites for employment information. I've let my previous licences expire so I hold only a HKATPL. I guess my question is: can I apply directly to carriers such as Korean/JAL etc without having to go through brokers (they appear to want a huge commission)? Are there any other airlines or Netjet equivalents who want a 40 year old, 12000 hour Skipper with Airbus, Classic, Herc and fighter time.
I feel this company isn't up to par with most any more and they won't change until a few us start to leave. Of course it would be nice if others did the leaving so that I can reap the benefit, but I think I'm due a change anyway. Sorry for the drivel; I'm sure I'll get the hang of posting. Just voicing my dissatisfaction without the whinging.
Ta!
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Busdude,
I have been trolling options too of late, with a view to getting out.
It seems you have to go through a recruitment agency for all contract jobs.
These are links to some of the sites that offer info:
http://www.hawaiiaviation.com/positions.htm
http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/index.htm
http://www.wynnwith.com/
http://japanpilots.19.forumer.com/
http://www.wasinc.net/employment.aspx
http://www.iac-global.com/vac.htm
http://gapaviation.com/home.html
http://www.contractair.net/public/index.html
http://www.directpersonnel.com/
Other one is Rishworth, though they seem to get a bad rap.
The highest paying package I have seen has been Korean which was something like USD13,000 and the "best" I have seen is ANA which offered a 10 day on, 20 day off contract for something like USD7,000
I have been trolling options too of late, with a view to getting out.
It seems you have to go through a recruitment agency for all contract jobs.
These are links to some of the sites that offer info:
http://www.hawaiiaviation.com/positions.htm
http://www.ifalpa.org/jobs/index.htm
http://www.wynnwith.com/
http://japanpilots.19.forumer.com/
http://www.wasinc.net/employment.aspx
http://www.iac-global.com/vac.htm
http://gapaviation.com/home.html
http://www.contractair.net/public/index.html
http://www.directpersonnel.com/
Other one is Rishworth, though they seem to get a bad rap.
The highest paying package I have seen has been Korean which was something like USD13,000 and the "best" I have seen is ANA which offered a 10 day on, 20 day off contract for something like USD7,000
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Hostile23,
Mate keep going, dont be bothered by what other people think about your concistentsy - most of them prob. havnt got - just that. You've put of with **** for long - now its only fair that you take your time for a bit of ventilation - and its all so very true, what you say. The chicken ****s can duck there heads down from now on and till forever. You've taken a decision - to go for the greener grass - and you know what you came from. A lot of the ones that think you have proven you point have prob never ev been through another proper airline and are the ones who would be much better of keeping quiet. At least you know what you are talking about. Keep going. Its all good mate.
All the best.
Mate keep going, dont be bothered by what other people think about your concistentsy - most of them prob. havnt got - just that. You've put of with **** for long - now its only fair that you take your time for a bit of ventilation - and its all so very true, what you say. The chicken ****s can duck there heads down from now on and till forever. You've taken a decision - to go for the greener grass - and you know what you came from. A lot of the ones that think you have proven you point have prob never ev been through another proper airline and are the ones who would be much better of keeping quiet. At least you know what you are talking about. Keep going. Its all good mate.
All the best.
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No one has really disagreed with what I've had to say have they?
That's because most of us who fit into CX don't spend as much time complaining about things on pprune. Every company will have people who can't fit in and they tends to be those who post negative thoughts on different forums. This is a fact of life that people love to complain, so there's really no point for us who disagree with you to try to change your thought or start a fight on pprune.
bus
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hostile23,
at least it takes some courage and determination for your decision.
Many pilots complain but only few take consequences like you. Most keep on going the comfortable way of not changing anything. If there were more decisions like yours some bad developments in aviation mainly based upon abusing pilot’s passion for their job had not taken place, e.g. this ridiculous paying for type ratings, and enduring the deterioration of their working conditions in general.
Unfortunately, the best times in aviation are gone, and this decay in general applies for all aviation companies I have heard about. The pioneer times in aviation are history and today it is all about cost cutting and shareholder value.
In some European countries surveys have taken place about young people’s ambitions for their favourite job. For many years becoming a pilot was always amongst the top three for male teens. In the latest surveys it was not even in the top ten. Obviously the reputation of a pilot job is diminishing just as the working conditions.
Nevertheless, I really hope that you will be happy with your decision and meanwhile things haven’t worsened in your former company, too.
Good luck man!
at least it takes some courage and determination for your decision.
Many pilots complain but only few take consequences like you. Most keep on going the comfortable way of not changing anything. If there were more decisions like yours some bad developments in aviation mainly based upon abusing pilot’s passion for their job had not taken place, e.g. this ridiculous paying for type ratings, and enduring the deterioration of their working conditions in general.
Unfortunately, the best times in aviation are gone, and this decay in general applies for all aviation companies I have heard about. The pioneer times in aviation are history and today it is all about cost cutting and shareholder value.
In some European countries surveys have taken place about young people’s ambitions for their favourite job. For many years becoming a pilot was always amongst the top three for male teens. In the latest surveys it was not even in the top ten. Obviously the reputation of a pilot job is diminishing just as the working conditions.
Nevertheless, I really hope that you will be happy with your decision and meanwhile things haven’t worsened in your former company, too.
Good luck man!
Living with Tourettes
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Just want to say thanks for all the PM's expressing support. I have had at least 20 so far including from wives of pilots. I really don't care what you pro Cathay types have to say, my priority is to convince others not to make the same mistake that I and many others have made by joining this abomination of an airline. After reading some of the PM's these b@stards really have got a lot to answer for. I've often thought the comment that "Cathay ruins lives" was going a bit far. After reading some of these messages I am now convinced. Cathay management is a disgrace, end of story.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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hostile23
So, if you, as you have told us, are going back to your previous employer and it is all fixed up, why are you asking questions about Flybe?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=274774
Has Easy sent you a 'No thanks'?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=274774
Has Easy sent you a 'No thanks'?
Living with Tourettes
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Ah, no they haven't. But I'm still looking at all options. I only wish I took more time and did better research 6 years ago! I wouldn't be here now working for this bunch of losers. I suggest you spend more time organising your own life. Oh and thanks for the link to my own thread numb nuts. Very useful.
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Irrelevant. h23 has presented some particularly grounded and well thought out reasons for leaving cx. Why are some of you (not necessarily you para) on his case? Maybe he is hedging his bets, maybe not, and if so, so what? I would certainly be looking at all the variables and not necessarily the hip pocket ones. What an enormous decision h23 made. I take my hat off to him and wish him luck in feathering his nest elsewhere. What a shame cx management interfere with previously motivated staff. This guy really appears to be trying to please everyone - in equal order - himself for his career and career related self esteem - his wife who wasnt overly fond of HK (happy wife, happy life) - and his kids with pollution related illnesses. Those of us who ignore these are mainly ruled by the dollar. And finally, to quote my mother - if you haven't anything nice to say, dont say it all. Let's give this guy the thumbs up and support him in something most of us would be way too gutless to even consider, let alone walk the mile. Dont justify your own sorry existence in HK (a select few) and denial about pollution by bagging the sh#t out of this chap's career change. All the best h23.