fo/fo's sacked?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets get them on the same fleet, roster them together and force them to share accommodation down route! And whilst we are at it, they could share laundry allowance as well. Could up load less bedding for the bunk too, its all win win for the company, they should be encouraging it not punishing?
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: the zone
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Five Green said 'They are both collecting what every other pilot gets.'
The four hundred Locally Employed Pilots at Cathay Pacific Airways on a Hong Kong Base receive $0 Housing Allowance.
So what you said is not true.
The Locally Employed pilots do exactly the same job as the Expat Pliots, so they are working to pay the Housing Allowance of Expat Pilots.
To complain about paying tax on housing, or not being able to fiddle the system when the rules are clear is a bit rich if you ask me.
The four hundred Locally Employed Pilots at Cathay Pacific Airways on a Hong Kong Base receive $0 Housing Allowance.
So what you said is not true.
The Locally Employed pilots do exactly the same job as the Expat Pliots, so they are working to pay the Housing Allowance of Expat Pilots.
To complain about paying tax on housing, or not being able to fiddle the system when the rules are clear is a bit rich if you ask me.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 966
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The four hundred Locally Employed Pilots at Cathay Pacific Airways on a Hong Kong Base receive $0 Housing Allowance
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: the zone
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not true.
This is not a Housing Allowance, but a Special Allowance.
And it is only 24k, less than a year 3 S/O receives.
This is not a Housing Allowance, but a Special Allowance.
And it is only 24k, less than a year 3 S/O receives.
Last edited by Colonel W E Kurtz; 6th Dec 2006 at 02:08. Reason: spelling
The Local Pilots don't get a housing allowance because....................................................t hey are local Pilots
I don't get a housing allowance on a base either. Nor do I get travel allowance( and a lot of HKG expats don't get that either ), 13th month, Priority 4 FOC's etc etc. Because I'm not an expat living in HKG.
Not really a hard thing to come to grips with.
The Local Captains get 24,000 month, which is extra money on top of their salary, call it what ever you like.
what????????????
I don't get a housing allowance on a base either. Nor do I get travel allowance( and a lot of HKG expats don't get that either ), 13th month, Priority 4 FOC's etc etc. Because I'm not an expat living in HKG.
Not really a hard thing to come to grips with.
The Local Captains get 24,000 month, which is extra money on top of their salary, call it what ever you like.
The Locally Employed pilots do exactly the same job as the Expat Pliots, so they are working to pay the Housing Allowance of Expat Pilots.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pot stiring
Col.:
You are right to be upset but do not take it out on fellow pilots. Put the blame where it belongs....on the company.
Also do not try and justify one wrong by holding up another.
FG
You are right to be upset but do not take it out on fellow pilots. Put the blame where it belongs....on the company.
Also do not try and justify one wrong by holding up another.
FG
Last edited by Five Green; 6th Dec 2006 at 06:29. Reason: speillin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember reading a newsletter Nigel put out called Remuneration and Benefits back in 2000/1. Basically there wasnt a pilot in the company that isn't hard done by. There is nothing to be gained from attacking each other.
What I find annoying about this housing issue is that they were a de facto couple..I believe they had kid/s? Yet try getting benefits for a de facto spouse with CX...CANNOT! So how is it rorting the system if two unmarried individuals live together and collect 2 lots of allowances. Maybe we should ban pilots getting involved with other pilots...or anyone else in HKG that gets any sort of housing benefit...or travel benefit...or medical benefits.
Now if they were truly renting out the 2nd place...well, that was stupid. I hope they weren't...both good people and would be a shame for them to have to leave becuase of of managements arbitrary interpretation of rules!
What I find annoying about this housing issue is that they were a de facto couple..I believe they had kid/s? Yet try getting benefits for a de facto spouse with CX...CANNOT! So how is it rorting the system if two unmarried individuals live together and collect 2 lots of allowances. Maybe we should ban pilots getting involved with other pilots...or anyone else in HKG that gets any sort of housing benefit...or travel benefit...or medical benefits.
Now if they were truly renting out the 2nd place...well, that was stupid. I hope they weren't...both good people and would be a shame for them to have to leave becuase of of managements arbitrary interpretation of rules!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: europe
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They were definately not renting out a place that CX was funding, that has not even been suggested by management.
He was renting ( ie not making a cent ) and she had a mortgage on another place which whilst pregnant was staying with him
Question - How many of you have stayed with mates ect whilst having your new pad reno'd- thats what they were both fired for
He was renting ( ie not making a cent ) and she had a mortgage on another place which whilst pregnant was staying with him
Question - How many of you have stayed with mates ect whilst having your new pad reno'd- thats what they were both fired for
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
managements arbitrary interpretation of rules
Unfortunately, the two pilots are been made examples.
Just demonstrates that Cathay Pacific Airways preferred method of discipline is “Termination”. Termination is justified from “throwing peanuts” to “working to rule”.
Why do we have Discipline and Grievance procedure? It is rarely used. Was it used in this case?
Just a reminder, giving up a job in your home country for Cathay Pacific Airways can end at any moment.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Asia
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another very nasty chapter unfortunately and tragic for the young family, I wish them all the best and hope they will be able to sort out the mess.
A nightmare for the individuals, but also very bad for the company reputation. The disgusting behaviour displayed by the managers involved is in total contradiction to the companies stated aspiration to be “the most admired airline in the world” and just serves to continually let down and disillusion its workforce, not exactly what you’d want to be exposed to for a lifelong career. Wonder if it will EVER change.
Point above well made, that’s why Cathay pays above industry average.
(It is what you call a health, career and morale risk premium)
A nightmare for the individuals, but also very bad for the company reputation. The disgusting behaviour displayed by the managers involved is in total contradiction to the companies stated aspiration to be “the most admired airline in the world” and just serves to continually let down and disillusion its workforce, not exactly what you’d want to be exposed to for a lifelong career. Wonder if it will EVER change.
Point above well made, that’s why Cathay pays above industry average.
(It is what you call a health, career and morale risk premium)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Asia
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CX salary is a good industry average, and somewhat better than what I earn now, but I guess there are other considerations not so easily quantifiable…
I now have considerably less cost than I had in Hong Kong.
I fly more, i.e. landings per DAY than the average CX pilot gets in a whole month.
I fly the airplane I actually enjoy flying on an everyday basis.
I fly daytime only on a stable roster and I am home most nights which means I feel good in my free time.
I am secure from being subjected to arbitrary bullying by my employer and I no longer have to tolerate this happening to my friends and peers.
I actually like and respect my managers, as they lead and motivate by example.
I enjoy turning up for work, being myself and having a good day with my colleagues.
I feel although my airline has its own acute problems that I am a valued part of a more holistic organisation which fosters rather than represses team spirit, a big problem for me in Hong Kong.
All non monetary rewards and perhaps non-essential to some out for a widebody job and a big paycheck, but part of my personal equation.
To the little family who will struggle this Christmas I sincerely hope that they will cope with what lies ahead and move on to a more secure future. To the managers responsible, although highly unlikely, I hope that they will be held accountable.
I now have considerably less cost than I had in Hong Kong.
I fly more, i.e. landings per DAY than the average CX pilot gets in a whole month.
I fly the airplane I actually enjoy flying on an everyday basis.
I fly daytime only on a stable roster and I am home most nights which means I feel good in my free time.
I am secure from being subjected to arbitrary bullying by my employer and I no longer have to tolerate this happening to my friends and peers.
I actually like and respect my managers, as they lead and motivate by example.
I enjoy turning up for work, being myself and having a good day with my colleagues.
I feel although my airline has its own acute problems that I am a valued part of a more holistic organisation which fosters rather than represses team spirit, a big problem for me in Hong Kong.
All non monetary rewards and perhaps non-essential to some out for a widebody job and a big paycheck, but part of my personal equation.
To the little family who will struggle this Christmas I sincerely hope that they will cope with what lies ahead and move on to a more secure future. To the managers responsible, although highly unlikely, I hope that they will be held accountable.
@CruisingSpeed,
do you mind telling for who you are flying now? Maybe PM me if you don´t feel like putting it here.
Thanks
do you mind telling for who you are flying now? Maybe PM me if you don´t feel like putting it here.
Thanks
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: America Baby! Yeah!
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps someone could address what is truly amazing about this situation?
Never mind if said FO’s were in the wrong, perhaps they were, perhaps they weren’t. I truly do not know.
My concern is the utter hypocrisy of Cathay management. Albeit it should come as no surprise…
My concern is this: Why is it permissible for so many “A” scale captains to appropriate their rental scheme to properties that are registered in the name of ghost companies or relatives.
It’s a wonderful ploy. They utilize the rental scheme to pay off an additional mortgage via the guise of leasing from an independent landlord. All the while the money is going into a company that they or a relative essentially owns. How that is considered unworthly of a PW tirade is beyond me? What's even more interesting: it's not uncommon knowledge (forgive my grammar, I never went to "university"). I guess it's just another inconvenient truth...
Sooooo... Why have two “B” scalers been sacked while the old salts, many of them management, slyly place the XXK a month they are not legally entitled too into their own wallets, no questions asked?
Just curious…
Never mind if said FO’s were in the wrong, perhaps they were, perhaps they weren’t. I truly do not know.
My concern is the utter hypocrisy of Cathay management. Albeit it should come as no surprise…
My concern is this: Why is it permissible for so many “A” scale captains to appropriate their rental scheme to properties that are registered in the name of ghost companies or relatives.
It’s a wonderful ploy. They utilize the rental scheme to pay off an additional mortgage via the guise of leasing from an independent landlord. All the while the money is going into a company that they or a relative essentially owns. How that is considered unworthly of a PW tirade is beyond me? What's even more interesting: it's not uncommon knowledge (forgive my grammar, I never went to "university"). I guess it's just another inconvenient truth...
Sooooo... Why have two “B” scalers been sacked while the old salts, many of them management, slyly place the XXK a month they are not legally entitled too into their own wallets, no questions asked?
Just curious…
The Reverend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wombat, I'm not sure you know what you are talking about? I was A scale and bought my own property that CX paid for three times over in rent allowance. I wasn't cheating, not like some of the guys who came to a sticky end by claiming the maximum rent allowance and living rent free by shacking up with a "friend".
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: America Baby! Yeah!
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I am talking about is very specific, and clearly contrary to the intent of the allowance.
I am talking about Captains who utilize the "Rental Allowance" for Captains scheme which is currently AAK for a mortgage vice utilizing the "Owner Occupier" scheme which only BBK a month. They do this by "leasing" from an entity they legidly have no connection to.
But you know what, I am going to remove myself from this conversation. The stakes are too high. It's easy to throw mud about two lowly Fo's, but an entirely different thing to question the senior folks within the company.
Good afternoon.
I am talking about Captains who utilize the "Rental Allowance" for Captains scheme which is currently AAK for a mortgage vice utilizing the "Owner Occupier" scheme which only BBK a month. They do this by "leasing" from an entity they legidly have no connection to.
But you know what, I am going to remove myself from this conversation. The stakes are too high. It's easy to throw mud about two lowly Fo's, but an entirely different thing to question the senior folks within the company.
Good afternoon.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easy !
Wombat;
As has been said before don't take this out on other pilots, be they A scale or Local or whatever.
All of the policies come from management.
As long as someone is not taking more than the allowed allowance (ie max rental or owner occupier) then in my books it is up to them how they structure their tax issues etc. It is not a case of de-frauding CX at all.
It is more a case of what is taxable and what is not. Similar to what you would try and right off in other tax rich enviroments !
Try not to get to worked up about what someone else is up to. Get worked up about your COS and your job related issues and stay involved with the process.
Cheers
As has been said before don't take this out on other pilots, be they A scale or Local or whatever.
All of the policies come from management.
As long as someone is not taking more than the allowed allowance (ie max rental or owner occupier) then in my books it is up to them how they structure their tax issues etc. It is not a case of de-frauding CX at all.
It is more a case of what is taxable and what is not. Similar to what you would try and right off in other tax rich enviroments !
Try not to get to worked up about what someone else is up to. Get worked up about your COS and your job related issues and stay involved with the process.
Cheers