Aren't you bored to death as SO?
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Sure, just like the pensions...
It sure seems like you have a lot of faith in UA. Why is that, given your apparent hatred for CX? UA's got the poisionous management/labor relations, the eroding pay and benefits, and the declining level of service. The training environment can't be as confrontational as CX because there is virtually no training going on over there - no new hires in the better part of a decade.
Now, in a vain attempt to get back on topic: One thing about UA that I'll vouch for is the relations between the pilots themselves. Even the people that got screwed by UA have great things to say about the crews they flew with. Do S/Os at CX get vaguely human-level treatment from the primary pilots, or is it pretty much a no-respect station? With management being what it is there, I imagine life as an S/O would be pretty bad if you're taking mountains of crap from the other pilots as well.
It sure seems like you have a lot of faith in UA. Why is that, given your apparent hatred for CX? UA's got the poisionous management/labor relations, the eroding pay and benefits, and the declining level of service. The training environment can't be as confrontational as CX because there is virtually no training going on over there - no new hires in the better part of a decade.
Now, in a vain attempt to get back on topic: One thing about UA that I'll vouch for is the relations between the pilots themselves. Even the people that got screwed by UA have great things to say about the crews they flew with. Do S/Os at CX get vaguely human-level treatment from the primary pilots, or is it pretty much a no-respect station? With management being what it is there, I imagine life as an S/O would be pretty bad if you're taking mountains of crap from the other pilots as well.
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Mr. Potato,
If you don't like the "poisonous management/labor relation", then maybe you should not pursue CX as you will be sorely disappointed.
I'll add you to the list of UA haters...I, for one never worked for them but enjoyed incredible benefits as one of the UAL feeders. So no, I don't have anything bad to say. The UA crews have always been class act.
I really don't care about what's going on with their pay and/or pensions, like mentioned above, I never did and will never work for them.
If you don't like the "poisonous management/labor relation", then maybe you should not pursue CX as you will be sorely disappointed.
I'll add you to the list of UA haters...I, for one never worked for them but enjoyed incredible benefits as one of the UAL feeders. So no, I don't have anything bad to say. The UA crews have always been class act.
I really don't care about what's going on with their pay and/or pensions, like mentioned above, I never did and will never work for them.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to imply any unfounded optimism about a future of dealing with CX management in my previous post. My only point was that "poisionous management/labor relations" have become par for the course in more places than one might think. UA management essentially ran the company into the ground as fast as they could post-9/11 in order to take advantage of the freedoms allowed managers under bankruptcy protection, such as tearing up all of the employee contracts. They did such a great job of it that their plan became the model for management crews all around the US airline industry, until the feds caught on and made it clear that other managers would not get carte blanche to the extent that UA's did.
So you know where I'm coming from, my father retired against his will from UA in 2003. He has lost his pension, stock fund, and medical benefits, and is now at the age of 63 desperately seeking employment in India, which is getting harder for old American pilots than one would think. UA management's political maneuvering has ensured that fictional 500000USD-a-year senior captains and pensioners took the lion's share of the blame for the bankruptcy, and the other labor groups and the flying public still believe the story to some extent. I watched the decay and collapse of the company starting in the mid-90's, and my friends among the current line pilots see no signs of improvement. The UA of today is a shell of what it once was - a situation to which unhappy CX pilots can probably relate. I think any hope for improving conditions at UA in the immediate future is optimistic, probably even more so than at CX. I don't imagine I'll be too disappointed with management at CX if I should ever make it there. Despite my age and inexperience, my expectations are already pretty low.
I don't think you're right in adding me to a list of UA haters, I simply have first-hand dealings with the current incarnation of the company, which is something I'm glad you've managed to avoid. You are dead on about UA crews being class acts, as their pilots, mechanics, and flight attendants are still some of the best in the industry despite all that's happened. I grew up emulating them, and I would be the last person here to say anything bad about them - part of why I have problems with their management. You're not at all obligated to care about the pay and/or pensions at UA, but I'm sad to say that the company you remember doesn't really exist any more. I would even be inclined to think that it's now making CX look decent by comparison, but I know I'm speaking from a position of no real experience.
So you know where I'm coming from, my father retired against his will from UA in 2003. He has lost his pension, stock fund, and medical benefits, and is now at the age of 63 desperately seeking employment in India, which is getting harder for old American pilots than one would think. UA management's political maneuvering has ensured that fictional 500000USD-a-year senior captains and pensioners took the lion's share of the blame for the bankruptcy, and the other labor groups and the flying public still believe the story to some extent. I watched the decay and collapse of the company starting in the mid-90's, and my friends among the current line pilots see no signs of improvement. The UA of today is a shell of what it once was - a situation to which unhappy CX pilots can probably relate. I think any hope for improving conditions at UA in the immediate future is optimistic, probably even more so than at CX. I don't imagine I'll be too disappointed with management at CX if I should ever make it there. Despite my age and inexperience, my expectations are already pretty low.
I don't think you're right in adding me to a list of UA haters, I simply have first-hand dealings with the current incarnation of the company, which is something I'm glad you've managed to avoid. You are dead on about UA crews being class acts, as their pilots, mechanics, and flight attendants are still some of the best in the industry despite all that's happened. I grew up emulating them, and I would be the last person here to say anything bad about them - part of why I have problems with their management. You're not at all obligated to care about the pay and/or pensions at UA, but I'm sad to say that the company you remember doesn't really exist any more. I would even be inclined to think that it's now making CX look decent by comparison, but I know I'm speaking from a position of no real experience.
Last edited by thepotato232; 5th Mar 2007 at 06:03.
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Jimothy,
to answer your question, no the SO isn't burned up on long haul. For night flights the rest is usually split into 2 halves. If it is a day flight, usually split up into 4 bits...movie, movie, rest, rest ;-)
Someone else asked how are SOs treated. Mostly OK. I think on the 400 not as well as on the bus, but they may be a function of the age difference. Most -400 captains are probably late 40s, early 50s whereas on the bus there is a greater age range down to early 30s.
I am sure regretcx/cannot will post here to tell you how it 'truly' is in CX as I only know from flying with SOs for the last decade or so.
to answer your question, no the SO isn't burned up on long haul. For night flights the rest is usually split into 2 halves. If it is a day flight, usually split up into 4 bits...movie, movie, rest, rest ;-)
Someone else asked how are SOs treated. Mostly OK. I think on the 400 not as well as on the bus, but they may be a function of the age difference. Most -400 captains are probably late 40s, early 50s whereas on the bus there is a greater age range down to early 30s.
I am sure regretcx/cannot will post here to tell you how it 'truly' is in CX as I only know from flying with SOs for the last decade or so.
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Yo-nited feeder? That explains it!
Mate, take a long look in the mirror before you suggest any of us "yanks" are coming to CX with low experience. Last I checked, not even the RAAF/RAF homos had more than 1500 to 2000 hours of experience when they joined CX.
An average "yank" coming to Cathay these days have upwards of 6000+ hours.
I have noticed a lot of you get visibly nervous when flying into such places as JFK, LAX, etc. etc.. I know our massive ATC system and the volume of traffic is a big intimidation to you, I am sorry.
Last edited by CAN-NOT!!; 5th Mar 2007 at 16:22.
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I wish I flew a "light-twin" into the big bad JFK like you! It must have been so much more challenging then the years of flying combat aircraft. 
If I've seen one CRJ driver like you, I've seen a hundred. You know it all, you have it all and know one else knows anything. No wonder you're so unhappy...no one else measures up to your high standard!
PS. I'm from the same side of the pond as you knucklhead!
If I've seen one CRJ driver like you, I've seen a hundred. You know it all, you have it all and know one else knows anything. No wonder you're so unhappy...no one else measures up to your high standard!
PS. I'm from the same side of the pond as you knucklhead!
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cannot,
you have the biggest ego I have seen in a while. Hours is a rudimentary and imprecise measure of someones ability. I have met new joiners with thousands of hours of "hauling rubber dog **** from hong kong'. Would you rather have a guy with 1000hrs of short flights, lots of airfields, variable weather, lots of time pressues OR the guy with 5000hrs all on 747-400 flying SYD-LAX vv only?
I have flown with guys that had low hours but they did scary stuff. SOme flying around New Guinea, some flying in Africa for the red cross getting shot at regularly.
So I look beyond the total hours figure...I like to know what type of flying he/she did before jumping to conclusions. RPT hours are easy...night freight is dangerous, hill flying in NG even more so.
Oh by the way, us ex military 'homos' had considerably more hours than you indicated. I think I had the lowest total of my intake at almost 4000hrs. A friend of mine has joined recently...he has in excess of 5000hrs.
Why do the yanks we get have so many hours? Is it because that is around the furloughed level? Or is it because CX is a great option for US pilots who only have 6000hrs?
I dont know who gets nervous going to those US cities. I know they could learn to do proper ATC from the boys and gals at Heathrow. The US controllers keep you guessing as to when you can approach, which runway and they often give you late descent clearance. LHR never seems to have any of those problems.
Still, I really enjoy doing the Caranasi approach onto 13L after 15hr flight...reminds me of the good old days doing the IGS onto 13 in HKG.
A question for you cannot. How many permanent FOs do we have here at CX? Maybe 10, 20...more??? So out of 600 to 800captains, we have less than 5% that couldn't make the grade. I am sorry that a 95%+ chance of becoming a captain here is so intimidating..but unfortunately we can't make it 100% for you to take away those nasty night tremors and wet beds, cause bloody old CAD said we had to have minimum standards. Maybe we can ask for dispensation on those standards just for you...will that make you happy, precious one!
you have the biggest ego I have seen in a while. Hours is a rudimentary and imprecise measure of someones ability. I have met new joiners with thousands of hours of "hauling rubber dog **** from hong kong'. Would you rather have a guy with 1000hrs of short flights, lots of airfields, variable weather, lots of time pressues OR the guy with 5000hrs all on 747-400 flying SYD-LAX vv only?
I have flown with guys that had low hours but they did scary stuff. SOme flying around New Guinea, some flying in Africa for the red cross getting shot at regularly.
So I look beyond the total hours figure...I like to know what type of flying he/she did before jumping to conclusions. RPT hours are easy...night freight is dangerous, hill flying in NG even more so.
Oh by the way, us ex military 'homos' had considerably more hours than you indicated. I think I had the lowest total of my intake at almost 4000hrs. A friend of mine has joined recently...he has in excess of 5000hrs.
Why do the yanks we get have so many hours? Is it because that is around the furloughed level? Or is it because CX is a great option for US pilots who only have 6000hrs?
I dont know who gets nervous going to those US cities. I know they could learn to do proper ATC from the boys and gals at Heathrow. The US controllers keep you guessing as to when you can approach, which runway and they often give you late descent clearance. LHR never seems to have any of those problems.
Still, I really enjoy doing the Caranasi approach onto 13L after 15hr flight...reminds me of the good old days doing the IGS onto 13 in HKG.
A question for you cannot. How many permanent FOs do we have here at CX? Maybe 10, 20...more??? So out of 600 to 800captains, we have less than 5% that couldn't make the grade. I am sorry that a 95%+ chance of becoming a captain here is so intimidating..but unfortunately we can't make it 100% for you to take away those nasty night tremors and wet beds, cause bloody old CAD said we had to have minimum standards. Maybe we can ask for dispensation on those standards just for you...will that make you happy, precious one!
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Last I checked, not even the RAAF/RAF homos had more than 1500 to 2000 hours of experience when they joined CX
RAF, 2,000 hrs Tornado, 2,800 hrs TT. Takes a while to build our hours up though - a 200 hour year is not unusual, my 'best ever' was 240 hrs, my worst 155 hrs. I guess that this does not make us the best pilots, and I'm sure that your 10,000 hrs+ will stand you in a better position than someone of my background.
First time at JFK certainly opened my eyes btw - but I guess that once you have done it a couple of times it's not too much of a drama. Anyway C-N thanks for the insightful comment so far, and I'm really pleased that you were able to move on to something that you are more suited to.
Don't think that I'm a "homos" btw - I'm not even homo I don't think - although it might have been cheaper in divorce costs!
Last edited by psy clops; 5th Mar 2007 at 21:06. Reason: sucked in by a moron - should have known better
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I really wish you CX types would stop bringing up "standards" when speaking of how Cathay Pacific operates.
I don't think a single person who packed up and bailed out of Hong Kong was "afraid" of the Cathay "standards" (there goes that word again). What we didn't appreciate is the "political" system that some of the extremely prejudice games that managers/checkers play when it's time to sack/fail and/or demote someone. It had happened far too frequent in times past.
I am sorry but us "yanks" have too many options back home to have to put up with that. Why did Cathay NOT hire from the U.S for a long time? Is it because us "yanks" are not standardized, unprofessional (like saying "good morning" on the radio or asking for turbulence reports),...or simply because most will end up leaving in the middle of the night as soon as a good job back home arrives?
Most that are in Hong Kong for long term are some that come from places with very poor aviation industry (You know where). Some of you..should I dare say....ARE STUCK!! and you have no option but to like it.
The truth does hurt sometimes and I once again....am sorry.
I don't think a single person who packed up and bailed out of Hong Kong was "afraid" of the Cathay "standards" (there goes that word again). What we didn't appreciate is the "political" system that some of the extremely prejudice games that managers/checkers play when it's time to sack/fail and/or demote someone. It had happened far too frequent in times past.
I am sorry but us "yanks" have too many options back home to have to put up with that. Why did Cathay NOT hire from the U.S for a long time? Is it because us "yanks" are not standardized, unprofessional (like saying "good morning" on the radio or asking for turbulence reports),...or simply because most will end up leaving in the middle of the night as soon as a good job back home arrives?
Most that are in Hong Kong for long term are some that come from places with very poor aviation industry (You know where). Some of you..should I dare say....ARE STUCK!! and you have no option but to like it.
The truth does hurt sometimes and I once again....am sorry.
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not true
we know that's not true with me being here. They don't nick name me the woolly mammoth for no reason... j/k!
With all joking aside, let's get bcak on topic - the SO way of life and if it is really boring as some say it is?
also, word on the street says upgrade time from SO to JFO is faster than 4years if ability allows. is this simply a mythical belief?
also regarding to a post made by CAN-NOT. http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpos...2&postcount=35
i would have hoped that a flight back home would cost less than 500 USD :| if that is really the truth, it's gonna hurt.
is it really the case?
With all joking aside, let's get bcak on topic - the SO way of life and if it is really boring as some say it is?
also, word on the street says upgrade time from SO to JFO is faster than 4years if ability allows. is this simply a mythical belief?
also regarding to a post made by CAN-NOT. http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpos...2&postcount=35
i would have hoped that a flight back home would cost less than 500 USD :| if that is really the truth, it's gonna hurt.
is it really the case?
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energie...believe little of what CAN-NOT posts. He is an angry little man looking for company.
I paid a little less than that a short while ago for a Business Class seat. Not sure what an economy seat costs but it's much less than that!
Remember, it's 90% off full fare plus taxes/fees.
I paid a little less than that a short while ago for a Business Class seat. Not sure what an economy seat costs but it's much less than that!
Remember, it's 90% off full fare plus taxes/fees.
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i guess it's only if you choose to fly J class.
one of my cx FA friend flew back to HK from NA recently and i think paid less than 200 for a stand by
thanks cpdude.
talk about learn to walk before you run i'll go back to studying for my cadet interview 
one of my cx FA friend flew back to HK from NA recently and i think paid less than 200 for a stand by
thanks cpdude.
talk about learn to walk before you run
i'll go back to studying for my cadet interview
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Why do the yanks we get have so many hours? Is it because that is around the furloughed level? Or is it because CX is a great option for US pilots who only have 6000hrs?
Why else would anyone go there, much less stay there?
I don't know what others are coming to CX with...I've read the various interview reports, and the numbes seem to go up or down. I don't concern myself with what others have done...if CX calls, CX calls, and it's not my call. I just wait. Personally, I consider myself a little underqualified, and I believe I'll be fortunate to hear from CX at all. All I'm saying there is that if one doesn't see CX as a benifit in one's life, why remain? Life is far too short.
I hear about the long hours the pay, etc....last year I had two engine failures and one force landing, one cockpit fire, and a brake failure under what I felt to be some fairly trying conditions. It was a bad year, relatively speaking. I've had better. I will say this...long "boring" hours in the company of professionals in an aircraft such as the equipment that CX flies, look pretty good to me. One man's ceiling is another man's floor, perhaps. Perhaps some like CXregret are merely a higher caliber of person, a better man, who deserves better than what CX can provide, while some of us lesser folks will just be grateful to go to work. Who knows?
I've seen some great employers in aviation, and I've seen some very, very poor ones. With CX, from the outside looking in, I see a couple of highly disgruntled individuals who are far out of step with the attitudes of nearly everyone else...which paints a clear picture to me regarding to whom I may lend credibility. Nothing to do with cool-aid, but some people seem to find something to whine about while being fitted for wings at the pearly gates...they'll never be happy. We all know such individuals. Then there are others who are able to see life as a balance, and be happy where they are instead of always looking beyond the mark. I'd like to think I'm in that category...because for at least two of you here, life must really be hell.
When I'm unhappy, I move on. What about you?
regretCX,
You really have got a complex haven't you? You must be one of the 5% who got the rough end of the stick and can't see anything in context.
If you feel that strongly about CX the best thing you can do is leave and forget about it, if you keep dwelling on it its going to kill you one way or another.
Your wild accusations that anyone who disagrees with you must be management or training only goes to show that you'd be perfectly qualified to sit in the star chamber.
Good luck, you need it.
You really have got a complex haven't you? You must be one of the 5% who got the rough end of the stick and can't see anything in context.
If you feel that strongly about CX the best thing you can do is leave and forget about it, if you keep dwelling on it its going to kill you one way or another.
Your wild accusations that anyone who disagrees with you must be management or training only goes to show that you'd be perfectly qualified to sit in the star chamber.
Good luck, you need it.