Low Viz Risk takers!?
Thread Starter
Senis Semper Fidelis
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,288
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From: Lancashire U K
Low Viz Risk takers!?
Good evening Rotorheads,
Thats the nice way to say hello, its actually very very misty and we have heavy dense drizzel at the mo, my location is 450 ft above sea level, within 1000yds of my office(from where I type this stuff) the land rises to 850ft well into the murky stuff, my ground level vision is about 500 to 600 ft then nothing but grey, and somebody has just flown a two tone grey R44 past my house at no more than 100 ft above me. Now it might be that this is some pilot who can fly with his eys shut, but even with my little experience I think this WX is a no go area for anyone but the highly experienced, I witnessed this guy come within a whisker of blatting my local electricity companies pylon, I stood transfixed and found myself waiting for the boom, I actually felt sick at what I have witnessed, if this pilot is a Pprunner, PLEASE get a life, and value the one you already have! My location is the outskirts of Blackurn in Lancashire UK, so if you read this you know its you, is your last name PRATT!
Thats the nice way to say hello, its actually very very misty and we have heavy dense drizzel at the mo, my location is 450 ft above sea level, within 1000yds of my office(from where I type this stuff) the land rises to 850ft well into the murky stuff, my ground level vision is about 500 to 600 ft then nothing but grey, and somebody has just flown a two tone grey R44 past my house at no more than 100 ft above me. Now it might be that this is some pilot who can fly with his eys shut, but even with my little experience I think this WX is a no go area for anyone but the highly experienced, I witnessed this guy come within a whisker of blatting my local electricity companies pylon, I stood transfixed and found myself waiting for the boom, I actually felt sick at what I have witnessed, if this pilot is a Pprunner, PLEASE get a life, and value the one you already have! My location is the outskirts of Blackurn in Lancashire UK, so if you read this you know its you, is your last name PRATT!
Scalextric for Men
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 277
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From: Southern England outside the M25
Now The Flying Lawer should be involved in this.
One.
Supposing the R44 was photographed and the
picture downloaded and shown on the pprune forums.
Q1 does that infringe privacy laws.
Q2 would that invalidate any action by the CAA.
Q3 would the moderator bar the individual that
submitted the photo: for not having submitted the picture
via the moderator.
Q4 accepting that a safe landing has taken place. Could any
passengers have a legal arguement in that, the weather and
conditions were those that a proffessional pilot: would consider
this flight foolhardy.
Q5 can the pilot concerned have any recourse to what
may be written about he/she.
SO THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS - WHAT ARE YOUR ANSWERS
AND FURTHERMORE DEAR READERS WHAT ARE YOUR QUESTIONS.
Best wishes
One.
Supposing the R44 was photographed and the
picture downloaded and shown on the pprune forums.
Q1 does that infringe privacy laws.
Q2 would that invalidate any action by the CAA.
Q3 would the moderator bar the individual that
submitted the photo: for not having submitted the picture
via the moderator.
Q4 accepting that a safe landing has taken place. Could any
passengers have a legal arguement in that, the weather and
conditions were those that a proffessional pilot: would consider
this flight foolhardy.
Q5 can the pilot concerned have any recourse to what
may be written about he/she.
SO THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS - WHAT ARE YOUR ANSWERS
AND FURTHERMORE DEAR READERS WHAT ARE YOUR QUESTIONS.
Best wishes
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 67
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From: Chelmsford
Well could this be the same numbscull who recently appeared between a cloud layer a few weeks ago over Preston.
Whilst I was in reciept of a Radar service flying one of HM Forces Gazelles (Yes single engine, none stab in IMC conditions).
The said R-44 proceded to decend through the cloud into very poor conditions below. It seems that we have a rather dangerous robbo driver in the North West of the UK who no doubt will appear in the statistics!!.
Whilst I was in reciept of a Radar service flying one of HM Forces Gazelles (Yes single engine, none stab in IMC conditions).
The said R-44 proceded to decend through the cloud into very poor conditions below. It seems that we have a rather dangerous robbo driver in the North West of the UK who no doubt will appear in the statistics!!.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 112
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From: Northern England
Doesn't sound clever, does it?? It seems to be a regular cause of crashes, with pilots not wanting to turn around or land when faced with worsening weather. We have all been there, and it's never an easy decision.
Remember that if you know the registration number of the machine, you can trace the owner through the CAA website
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/aircraft_re...nfo/search.asp
I think that there is a two-tone grey R44 based at sherburn.
Remember that if you know the registration number of the machine, you can trace the owner through the CAA website
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/aircraft_re...nfo/search.asp
I think that there is a two-tone grey R44 based at sherburn.
Last edited by Draco; 1st July 2002 at 10:14.
There are no limits
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 506
Likes: 2
From: Shrewsbury, England.
This is possibly the same aircraft that I saw going West/East over Windy Hill/Saddleworth following the M62 at about 100 ft (how high are those lamp standards?).
The weather was 200m in Fog at the time. I did try to trace this via Leeds and Manch ATC but no radio contact was made.
BTW, I was driving along the Motorway at the time!
The weather was 200m in Fog at the time. I did try to trace this via Leeds and Manch ATC but no radio contact was made.
BTW, I was driving along the Motorway at the time!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 41
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From: cheshire
Two tone grey R44 (G-OLOW, unfortunte call sign for this thread or what) that was based at Sherburn is now based at Hawarden where it has been in the hangar for the last few months (and I believe still is) with no main rotors. I think that discounts that one.
The new R44 at Sherburn is a hydraulically assisted one with, I think, green stripes.
I'll keep an eye out for him as I go through Manc low level route and then towards Sheepshire, sorry Yorkshire, quite a bit.
Hopefully he wil be reading this thread, be embarassed and hopefully safer.
NigD
The new R44 at Sherburn is a hydraulically assisted one with, I think, green stripes.
I'll keep an eye out for him as I go through Manc low level route and then towards Sheepshire, sorry Yorkshire, quite a bit.
Hopefully he wil be reading this thread, be embarassed and hopefully safer.
NigD
Thread Starter
Senis Semper Fidelis
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,288
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From: Lancashire U K
Gentlemen,
Well, after your comments it seems that we may have a dare-devil pilot in the Northern area, I hope I dont sound like some bleeding heart type, but to stand in the drizzle and wait for a dull thud made the hairs on my back stand up, not a nice feeling at all, the problem is, pilots like this chap will come unstuck in a big way, but at the point of no return he/she may also cause the loss of some totally innocent px or person on the ground, not to mention the damage to any property that could be involved.
It takes immense skill to fly a Helicopter, its is just a pity that some pilots treat this skill with such disdain, I would have no hesitation in turning this pilot in, just for that incident alone!
Sadly, I had some connection with R44 G-TLME that hit Winter hill, that was bad , so hence my anger at this guy!!
Well, after your comments it seems that we may have a dare-devil pilot in the Northern area, I hope I dont sound like some bleeding heart type, but to stand in the drizzle and wait for a dull thud made the hairs on my back stand up, not a nice feeling at all, the problem is, pilots like this chap will come unstuck in a big way, but at the point of no return he/she may also cause the loss of some totally innocent px or person on the ground, not to mention the damage to any property that could be involved.
It takes immense skill to fly a Helicopter, its is just a pity that some pilots treat this skill with such disdain, I would have no hesitation in turning this pilot in, just for that incident alone!
Sadly, I had some connection with R44 G-TLME that hit Winter hill, that was bad , so hence my anger at this guy!!
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 27
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From: Leeds, Yorkshire, UK
The Sherburn R44 is indeed silver with dark green stripes, G-BZMG
I sincerely hope it wasn't one of our lot...
Vfrpilotpb - since it was so low did you not see any hint of the reg? Probably over too quick?
I sincerely hope it wasn't one of our lot...
Vfrpilotpb - since it was so low did you not see any hint of the reg? Probably over too quick?
Thread Starter
Senis Semper Fidelis
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,288
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From: Lancashire U K
Rotor Nut,
Yes it was over too quick but it was also very misty, and he was in it to the point were I knew what it was with the sound of the engine but could not make out the rotor disk let alone the Reg number, then when about 400/600 yds past my house he came into view just about were the pylon is, missed it and dissapeared again heading this time in the direction of the high ground. Despite all my worry about this chap it has just occured to me that could he possibly be instrument rated enough to fly a 44 in such bad viz, after all I may be worrying over nothing!
Yes it was over too quick but it was also very misty, and he was in it to the point were I knew what it was with the sound of the engine but could not make out the rotor disk let alone the Reg number, then when about 400/600 yds past my house he came into view just about were the pylon is, missed it and dissapeared again heading this time in the direction of the high ground. Despite all my worry about this chap it has just occured to me that could he possibly be instrument rated enough to fly a 44 in such bad viz, after all I may be worrying over nothing!
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
Ahhhhhh.....sounds like the good ol' days on the North Sea.....when men were men and sheep were nervous! My how times are a'changing.....how many old time pilots want to share some of their "VFR" arrivals to Teeside...Aberdeen....or Sumburgh in the days of yore? Ever "hover-mosey" back in all the while claiming good vis.....ever shake the tiles on the steeple at Peterhead on the way in.....dance with the pylons on the way into Teeside.....nah......not me! Do the ILS to Teeside on an Airshow Saturday.....single pilot in the 58T......only to breakout to remember about the airshow.....nah, not me!
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
Cor,
They were the S-58GT's with PT-6-6's....we had the caravan on the tarmac....lived in the hotel for the longest time....and enjoyed every minute I was there. There is a story behind the GT remark.....blew the doors off a Puma one morning on the way to the Ekofisk.....and DE got dubbed a GT instead of a mere T.
Nick Lappos would have been proud of me over that one!
They were the S-58GT's with PT-6-6's....we had the caravan on the tarmac....lived in the hotel for the longest time....and enjoyed every minute I was there. There is a story behind the GT remark.....blew the doors off a Puma one morning on the way to the Ekofisk.....and DE got dubbed a GT instead of a mere T.
Nick Lappos would have been proud of me over that one!
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
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From: the dark side
Capt Notarious
Think I might be able to help with some answers:
Q1: No not an invasion of privacy, if the pic was taken in a public place, or i think from a place with unrestricted public access. Recent example from memory is photos of Anna Ford (ex BBC news Anchor) taken on public beach and published. She claimed invasion of privacy, finding was 'well you were in a public place, you should have thought of that before'.
Q2:Not sure, I dont think so, it would depend on the content of the picture, and possibly the medium (ie celluloid or digital). Perhaps a legal eagle can assist with this. The catch might be the words/comments submitted with or about the picture.
Q3: Dont know, I dont see why they should ban, as they currently allow links to sites pictures under Pprunes current terms of use, so long as the link meets those terms and conditions.
Q4:I think you would first have to determine whether the flight taken was sold/given as being provided by a professional helicopter pilot. My guess is that you would have to prove a breach of regulations/licenses, rather than whether a 'professional' would have taken the flight, as a 'professional' can make a misjudgement. What would pax sue for, stress?
Q5:Yes, if it were libelous/slanderous or untrue. He may however need a big bank balance to afford said case, depending on where the information appeared.
Think I might be able to help with some answers:
Q1: No not an invasion of privacy, if the pic was taken in a public place, or i think from a place with unrestricted public access. Recent example from memory is photos of Anna Ford (ex BBC news Anchor) taken on public beach and published. She claimed invasion of privacy, finding was 'well you were in a public place, you should have thought of that before'.
Q2:Not sure, I dont think so, it would depend on the content of the picture, and possibly the medium (ie celluloid or digital). Perhaps a legal eagle can assist with this. The catch might be the words/comments submitted with or about the picture.
Q3: Dont know, I dont see why they should ban, as they currently allow links to sites pictures under Pprunes current terms of use, so long as the link meets those terms and conditions.
Q4:I think you would first have to determine whether the flight taken was sold/given as being provided by a professional helicopter pilot. My guess is that you would have to prove a breach of regulations/licenses, rather than whether a 'professional' would have taken the flight, as a 'professional' can make a misjudgement. What would pax sue for, stress?
Q5:Yes, if it were libelous/slanderous or untrue. He may however need a big bank balance to afford said case, depending on where the information appeared.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 500
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From: London
Capt Notarious
Q.1 No. And besides which, what privacy laws? Ain't really any such things in the UK.
Q.2 No. Although sometimes there are reporting restrictions imposed by the contempt of court act, these relate largely to comment or prejudicial reporting. If you think about it, why are all those videos shown on crimewatch in an attempt to identify suspects if their showing would prevent a subsequent prosecution?
Q.3 Don't know.
Q.4. They might but to what end? Do you mean could they sue the pilot? Unlikely because negligent or not it's difficult to see what their loss or damage would be. On the other hand, subject to the precise details, the CAA might well have a case for prosecuting for negligently or recklessly endangering the safety of an aircraft.
Q. 5 See jumpseater's post above
Q.1 No. And besides which, what privacy laws? Ain't really any such things in the UK.
Q.2 No. Although sometimes there are reporting restrictions imposed by the contempt of court act, these relate largely to comment or prejudicial reporting. If you think about it, why are all those videos shown on crimewatch in an attempt to identify suspects if their showing would prevent a subsequent prosecution?
Q.3 Don't know.
Q.4. They might but to what end? Do you mean could they sue the pilot? Unlikely because negligent or not it's difficult to see what their loss or damage would be. On the other hand, subject to the precise details, the CAA might well have a case for prosecuting for negligently or recklessly endangering the safety of an aircraft.
Q. 5 See jumpseater's post above
Last edited by Legalapproach; 7th July 2002 at 17:53.