vector801

Hi all,

This is my first post on PPRuNe so be gentle.

I have a problem. I have just recently re-applied for a Commission to join the RN as a Potential Pilot. This will now be my third application.

1st Application Failed the FATS

2nd Application Passed Pilot FATS with Very Good Score, Neglected to Put effort into Observer FATS as I was so obsessive about passing for Pilot, wouldn't have been an Observer if u'd paid me a £1,000,000. Then failed AIB on the grounds that I didn't read the right 'Newspapers' even though I passed all written tests very well as well as the group excercises.

Now at the age of 23 I realise that I will need to have started training by my 24th birthday in July. I have also been told by my Liaison Officer that I need to now Pass Observer FATS. Having sat them twice already I shouldn't be allowed another go.

Am I biting at the bit, do I leave the Application??

After all, I have just passed to become a Trainee Air Traffic Controller with NATS which I start in Sept.
On the other hand, in 2001 I went to South Africa and got my ICAO PPL in 18 days, was awarded a RN Gliding Scholarship in 2000 and flew with Ex-First Sea Lord. Admiral Sir Julian Oswold.

The Royal Navy have shown great interest in me over the course of the last 6 years. I really don't want to waste any more of their time or resources (or mine) on a lost course.

If there is anyone out there who can possibly point me in the right direction I would be extremely grateful.
A Flying Career in the RN has been my life long ambition, especially reading about all the exploits of Cmdr 'Sharkey' Ward and the Men of 801, Lt Nick Richardson and his adventures in Bosnia, as well as many other untold stories of RN Aircrew.

Like I said, am I still holding on to a Ship That Has Most Probably Sailed???

Regards, John

hyd3failure

Hey fella, welcome to the thread.

I have to say that the one comment from you that (as a recruiter) put me off was the What do you want?

Do you want to be a Naval Officer?
Do you want to be aircrew?
Do you want to be a pilot?
Do you want to be an Observer?


I'm afraid that comments like "wouldn't have been an Observer if u'd paid me a £1,000,000" will not get you in.

If you really want to be a member of the senior service. If you really want to be a part of the greatest fighting force of this country. If you really want to join the Navy then you have to be committed. It seems to me that you are not sure of your commitment. In the Royal Navy you are a Warfare Officer first and an Aviator second.

Your allegiance should be to the warfare of the ship, the combat of the vessel…and not to being a pilot.

Finally, when I attended the AIB I told them that I read “The Sun” as do half the population, and I got in. So reading the wrong paper is not the reason you failed the AIB.

My advice. Go back and tell them that you want to be a Naval Officer. Tell the truth. You never know what will happen. Stranger things have happened - they let me in for a starter

STANDTO

IF they have put up with you for six years, then there must be something in you they see. If you have been invited back again, there has to be hope. I think they would have told you to **** off by now.

Get the papers out, your ar$e in gear and GET ON WITH IT. you are nearly there. If you don't do it, you will, like me, regret it EVERY SINGLE DAY OF YOUR LIFE.

On the back of those inspirational words, if you make it, make sure STANDTO gets a jolly.

vector801

Thanks For The Reply,

Not wanting to be an Observer was what I thought when I took the FATS for the 2nd time. I have to admit that having failed the FATS first time I was adamant that I was going to pass them the Second time round. I was 19 at the time and very imature. I had this very nieve attitude that I new best.

I think I could pass the Observer FATS test if I were to take them again. After all, the NATS tests that I took were very similar to the Obserevr FATS and I passed those.

I have to say that I've grown up a lot over the past 3 years. I want more than anything to be a Naval Pilot, but in being that I will be also something else, A Naval Officer. In being this I no that I will be responsible for the many lives that an Officer holds sway as well as all his/her responsiblities.

Thanks Again, John


P.S. I have applied for the Commission again, usual Application Forms as well as a very detailed letter including all my past Naval Experiences and achievements as well as all those in civilain life. This has all been arranged in Chronological Order.

We'll have to wait and see what the Admiralty have to see eh.

J

hyd3failure

well it seems to me as though you have the correct attitude. If it was upto me you'd be in...... sadly though Im not on this years board and so you may need to impress some other people.

But, the best of luck to you ....Don't give in.... determination is a valuable attribute.

vector801

Hey,

Thanks again for your quick reply and encouraging message.


I have to admit that I seem to have left this 'growing up lark' a little late, but we all have a degree in in hindesight eh.
I'll give it my best shot if The Admiralty see fit for me to apply again.

I would like to thank you again and wish you all the very best.


Regards, John


P.S. Bloody Good Forum they got goin here

Pielander

My strategy was that I desparately wanted to be a pilot, but failing that, I'd settle for engineer just to get me in. That covered the 'officer first, pilot second' angle whilst enabling me to show no interest whatsoever in being an observer.

Like yourself, I've done a fair bit of flying already, so if I'd been given a hard time about not wanting to be an observer, then I could have spouted off about my love of hands-on flying ad-nauseum. However; in spite of the fact that I had equal P and O scores and the fact that I had on observer on my board, the question never came up. Needless to say, I never ticked the observer box on the application.

After AIB, they give you a form on which you can say which branches you would or would not accept. From then on, you can afford to be a bit more blunt. I also called the selection officer when I got my confirmation letter. He suggested that I might be offered observer because of my age (25) and my ropey AIB score. Again, I just said I'd hold out for pilot. One week later, that's what I was offered.

vector801

Congrats,

Thats what determination gets you eh!

I certainly have the determination to go all the way, as well as the desire to succed.

Fact of the matter though is that I may have all these attributes, yet they are useless to me if the Admiralty deems me unworthy to take the FATS again. If i'm granted this, I have to pass all 3 batteries of FATS again. How many people do you no that have been allowed to sit the FATS 3 times.

I don't even think they let you do that. But if you don't ask or try, you'll never no.

J

Pielander

"If you don't ask, you'll never know"

Precisely. You've nothing to lose. Plus I'm sure it could be argued that your mental arithmetic scores (which I believe count for both) could have legitimately improved since the last time if you had practised a lot.

Pester 'em until they tell you to leave, then pester 'em a bit more! They're desparate for pilots anyway.

Best of luck

airborne_artist

RN aircrew age on entry is still 26, not 24?

vector801

Hey all,

From what my Liaison Officer told me on Mon 24/01/05 Top Brass are reducing age limitaion to 24 sometime this year, probably around Summer time.

Guess it's the right thing for them to do. If it takes around 6 years to fully train a guy/gal to fly a fast jet, they'd better start recruiting. With the introduction of 150 RN F35's in 2012 there gonna need to fill them places fast............. Hopefully saving one for ME

amb_211085

With regards to Aircrew, I was diagnosed in 1999 as having exercise induced asthma, only ever had the symtoms then and never again. Later the doctor decided it was most probably acute bronchitis inducd wheezing, most definately not asthma. Is this likely to pose a problem?

If so, my second choice if pilot is a medical no no is to try for mine clearance diving officer, does anybody know of the medical restrictions on this as I can't seem to find any details?

Ta

Pielander

Steady on, vector. I don't think they're giving us all 150! (We'll have to share them with the Crabs).

vector801

Wouldn't it be a nice thought though eh?

Here's a question, do the RN still allow some Rotary Wing Pilots to cross over to Fast Jet if they have the right aptitude (if that is even the reason they allow them to cross)??

If they still do, what are the numbers if anyone knows???

J

P.S. With regards to the question about the Breathing Problem, I couldn't tell you the answer to that. I had my aircrew medical at RAF Cranwell in 1999 and they got very nervous when you mentioned any sort of breathing disorder eg. Hayfever and Asthma. Whether it was a limited medical because it was for a RN Gliding Scholarship I don't no. If you could get in touch with the Central Air Medical Centre at HMS Sultan they might be able to give you some information. As far as I know, once you pass AIB (literally minutes after) you are sent there to have your Aircrew Medical. Am probably wrong about that now because of the time difference since I was last at HMS Sultan.

Regards, John

bad livin'

OK, Vector801...

First and foremost, and I tell you this from personal experience - if you care more about being a pilot than an officer, and I don't say this to discredit the RAF (I was in it and chopped as a pilot) then join them. This is NOT what the AIB want. They want you to be keen to be, and able to be, a good Royal Naval Officer first and foremost. The pilot part is a long way off. Divisional work, and a hundred other things which are vital to life at sea come first.

If I were you, and I hope you are successful, I'd make this very clear. There's an awful lot of time at sea when you're not flying on an FF/DD tour, as I'm sure many far older and bolder than me will attest. You really need to want to be in the mob beyond just flying. Also, being an Observer is an outrageously challenging role. So much so in fact that of the 11 or 12 on my entry at Dartmouth who got as far as the BOC, only 2 made it to OFT and I believe one has been recoursed. There's a reason for that - it's damn difficult. Don't discount it out of hand.

Best of luck to you - hope to see you around the Andrew some time.

BL

hyd3failure

Well said Bad Livin....




God yeah...big time...and not just Pilots..Observers as well. In particular the RN is looking to start training JSF pilots and are recriuting heavily for that aircraft.


With regards to the breathing problem...I think you'll find that the medical criteria for MCD are way way more stringent than for aircrew. If they won't allow you to be aircrew due to a wheeze, then there is no way they will allow you to be an MCD Officer.

Jucky

Vector801,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I would suggest it is very unlikely that you will be given the opportunity to have a third go at FAT's. It is unusual to be given a second chance. When I was an ACLO, I enquired about getting some of my candidates at the time a second chance a FAT's, CDR AIR at AIB said no and suggested that they go for Warfare. The problem with FAT's is that once you have done them once or even twice you know what they are all about and are therefore they are not achieving their aim. People are also very unlikley to improve on their scores if they go again. You either have it or you don't. You also need to have a time period of 12 months between doing both FAT's and AIB again(6 months in exceptional circumstances in the case of AIB). If you have failed AIB you only have one more shot at it. If you pass and don't get in for the entry you want, the pass lasts 12 months and you are automatically put on the list for all the subsequent entries during that period.

In terms of crossing over from rotary wing to fixed wing in the RN, it is called the AIR 309 Course. You need to be pretty good at flying helicopters and have passed your Certificate of Competence (CofC), had a good trap ride and be recommended by your squadron. They also look back at your EFT reports and you need to have averaged 3.8 or more to be in with a chance, less than 3.5 and you can forget it. They look at this because they reckon these scores have a good correlation with the numbers that get through Valley and onto Harrier OCU.

However don't let any of what I have said put you off. If you are really serious about being Aircrew in the RN, I would stick another application in and keep at it. Times change and policies change. The above was the policy when I was an ACLO which is a while ago now. The RN is going on a major recruitment drive for aircrew at the moment and they will pretty much take anybody who passes all three FATs and AIB, which was not the case 12 months ago. However this has a few ramifications later in the training pipeline and I would not be surprised if the chop rate increases again, as standards in flying training have not dropped. It requires a lot of determination and hard work to become a Naval Aviator, but if you are serious about a career in the RN get your head down, grit your teeth and crack on, it will be well worth it in the end.

I wouldn't do anything else!

FLY NAVY!

Jucky

vector801

Hey Jucky,


Thanks for the reply.

Like I said, if I don't try I'll never know. All is not lost though as I have a Brilliant Job lined up in Sept as a Trainee Air Traffic Controller with Nats.

If I had a choice though, I would definitely go with my childhood ambition of being a Royal Navy Fighter Pilot.
I have the Shar Pilot and his wonderful display to thank for that at RNAS Culdrose's Airshow on my 3rd birthday.

My early years are a little hazy but I'll never forget that.


Thank You all for your advice and positive support. I should hear back from the Admiralty on their decision sometime this week so I’ll post the outcome.


Regards, John

Raffles01

Hi guys, some great info on here and on the forum in general. Much appreciated.

Anyway, I have a question about applying for the FAA that I've not been able to find through a search on Pprune and was wondering if anyone could help. (Sorry for hijacking your thread Vector!)

I am in the early stages of applying to hopefully 'Fly Navy', basically waiting to have the interview to see if they're willing to send me down to AIB. I'm also applying for the RAF at the same time as to be officer aircrew in the Forces is something I really want to do after having left University.

I'm applying for both pilot and observer but my problem is that I have had absolutely zero contact with the Navy apart from an interview with an SCLO when I was in school! At that time I was going for AAC flying, which I have passed the tests for, but after thinking hard about it I realise the Army is not the best service for persuing a flying career as an officer.

Therefore my problem is that, although I am now totally committed to a possible career in the Senior Service, how the hell do I convince them of this after no previous contact?! I realise that a Station visit will go down well (quite a trek from NW England to deepest Cornwall but I'm prepeared to do it!) and I know a fair amount about the history of the FAA etc, but is it literally just a case of saying 'It's something I never thought of until now but....'

Sorry to prattle on about such a small point, and I realise other areas are far more important such as aptitude and leadership, but I think the whole motivation thing would be an important aspect of joining, and when I get to such a stage as FATS and AIB 'Every Little Helps', to coin a phrase!

Any help would be greatly appreciated chaps! Thanks for your time.

bad livin'

Well mate you've started well - now READ, READ, READ!!!! Go to the AFCO and beg to be sent on every acquaint course going, and not just the air ones - you'll learn an awful lot more about the RN. Many aircrew I know found a visit to Faslane and the SSN/SSBN community very interesting, along with MCD and lots of other branches. Keep asking questions and be seen to be keen as mustard and the AFCO will do their best for you - mine were terrific and I met some good people.

Best of luck, go for it - I saw about 20 countries in my first 8 months after Dartmouth!!