spork

Would it dismay or concern pax and air crew to know that in this time of heightened security alerts, baggage flew Newark to Gatwick on Friday night unaccompanied by the passenger? This is a bags loaded, passenger no-show situation. I can and will provide more information on this.

I thought that there are security regulations in place to always offload unaccompanied bags? I’ve certainly seen this procedure on UK TV programmes, where the flight is delayed while this happens.

I’m not at all happy that this should happen (while stupidity like confiscating passengers’ paperbacks is going on) and I’m prepared to follow through with a complaint (and proof) to whoever should know about this.

knobbygb

As a pax I was always under the impression that this was an everyday occurance and that the "rule" of no accompanied bags was just another attempt to reassure the less well informed public. I could list possibly 12 or more occasions when my bags have travelled on a different aircraft than me - usually when they've been "left behind" and arrive a few hours later but twice, both in the US, when they've actually arrived before me on an earlier flight (where I'd allowed extra connecting time, which obviously wasn't needed). Yep, I know that it'd be hard for someone with ulterior motives to actually plan this, but still makes you think!

Maybe it's just accepted as a fact these days that the 'bad guys' really don't give a toss if they go down in flames with the aircraft.

spork

Thanks for the response. I too have always suspected that this happens, but this is the first time I have positive proof. I wonder though, whose rule it is?

I seem to recall that Lockerbie was the result of “bags with no passenger”, and I think that was when the rule was created, but maybe my memory fails me. BUT, in this very high alert status it surprises me that two large bags were happily left on a US to UK flight. The airline definitely knew the passenger was not on board.

Strepsils

Be very sure on the specifics of this.

Bags can and often do travel without the accompanying passenger, as knobbygb says usually when they've been left behind. They are then known as "Rush" bugs and undergo extensive screening to ensure the contents are acceptable and are marked as such. How else could your bag be returned to you should it go missing.

If a bag has remained onboard when a passenger has no showed then it is a very different matter, and there will be consequences. Even if the dispatcher at origin does not spot the bag count discrepancy, it will be spotted on arrival and there are severe penalties.

Are you 100% certain it was not a rush bag?

TSR2

Any bag left off a flight that a passenger travels on, must travel unaccompanied on another flight for it to be reunited with the passenger.
This must be a daily occurance. Makes one wonder !

spork

I am.

Presume they’ve refers to the bags not the passenger?

So pax flies, bags left somewhere, they then become “Rush” bugs. That all makes sense.

This applies. Two large bags, no-show passenger, as in my first post above. So whose rule is it? And what are the consequences/severe penalties?

Going by the above definition of a rush bag, yes.

Yes – I think that is obvious, but it clearly is not the question in this thread. See my first post.

SXB

Spork
I'm no expert but I'd think there is a "huge" difference between a rush bag and one where a passenger has simply not shown up after checking in for a flight. I think we've all spent time waiting on planes while baggage has been offloaded for a pax that has disappeared. I think everyone treats this as suspicious.

Rush bags are different, the pax can't really predict when a piece of luggage will miss a flight and, normally, they may not be able to predict which flight would subsequently carry such a bag. I still travel to places where baggage is dumped on the tarmac and you then have to point to your bag which is then chalk marked, I'm assuming it's an extra check and they still reconcile baggage to the passenger manifest...

spork

I fully understand that rush bags are different; although until tonight I did not know they had a cute name assigned like that.

I agree that there is a huge difference between a rush bag and one where a passenger has simply not shown up after checking in for a flight. If everyone treats this as suspicious, why did it happen, especially on heightened alert like that? And where do I deal with it/report it?

As mentioned in post #1, these bags flew Newark to Gatwick on Friday night unaccompanied by the passenger, who no-showed.

daz211

are you sure it was not a chk-in or gate error and the passenger was
onboard and the problem was sorted before departure ?

spork

Absolutely sure. As already stated, the airline definitely knew the passenger was not on board.

apaddyinuk

As someone who used to work in the Baggage Tracing department of an airline I think I should be able to answer this one.
A bag can be what is known in the aviation world "Rushed" to a destination when it has been seperated from its owner for whatever reason. In order for the bag to be "rushed" unaccompanied a note is placed in the computer system so that the dispatcher AND the flight crew are aware. This bag will then be thouroughly screened before loading and then it will be put on the flight to ensure delivery to the owner.
NOW...If as I suspect your thread is about bags travelling on a flight which their owners missed or were offloaded then I assume that because all bags are now 100% screened in the USA for explosives and whatever else, the dispatcher and captain both decided that it was an "acceptable" risk to take the bags instead of creating a costly and frustrating delay considering they had been fully screened.
Im not sure if it does happen still in my airline but to be honest considering the current security situation I doubt it will happen again. However I personally would not be too worried leaving the states with an unattended bag, other countries however I would be very worried about it.
But this is just my sypnosis so please dont shoot the messenger!

apaddyinuk

Sorry, I should have read the rest of the posts before I went into the whole "Rush" bag thing!!!

spork

To return to post #1.
Dismay, concern, or any other response?

Well are there?

This sounds completely wrong to me, especially in light of Thursday’s high alert state.

We have other problems of customer service (or rather total lack of) with the US airline, that we will be addressing, but the key issue to me is the above important security issue. Maybe it’s not important. Would everyone be happy flying the Atlantic with (effectively) the baggage hold containing whatever no-show pax decided to ship?

A2QFI

I was surprised to hear a news item on Sunday saying that some passengers had checked in baggage at LHR and that they had then got held up at security and the flight had gone with their luggage and without them. This seems to negate the existing rules re unaccomapined baggage and fly in the face of the stringent security measures now in place. As an aside - when a call is made asking 2 named passengers to rush to Gate?? where their flight is closing and their luggage will be offloaded if they don't get there, how long would it take to identify and off load 2 items of hold luggage?

spork

And those rules or regs are????

RevMan2

Time to identify? Instantaneous
Time to offload? Depends on where the bag is

The baggage reconciliation applications currently in use identify the passenger who's checked in luggage but hasn't boarded, the container in which the bag is loaded and (pretty roughly) the location within the container.
Sod's Law states that the bag will be at the back of the most inaccesible container....

apaddyinuk

Spork, May I suggest you write a letter to the airline asking them what the policy is? Then you will find the answer that you are looking for.
The bags may have travelled for any number of reasons and every airline has different procedures. You cant just assume one airlines rules and regs are practiced at another airline.
Things like this can and do happen and there is very little you will be able to do about it.

Strepsils

In the UK it's not down to the airline to set and enforce the rules. The rules regarding bags, pax and security are set by the Department of Transport with input from the CAA.

Best chance of a response would be to ask in the Flight Ops, Crewing and Dispatch forum.

spork

Well thanks to Strepsils for the answer that in the UK it’s the Department of Transport with input from the CAA that have formed the rules. I guess as this happened at Newark, it will be the US equivalent, possibly the Port Authority? I’ll keep pursuing this, and eventually I will find out who to report it to.

Some more googling this afternoon has shown that a couple of years ago (post 9-11 of course) the Newark screeners were missing one in four explosives and weapons in undercover tests. In December 2004, screeners lost a fake test bomb; it wound up on a plane to Amsterdam. Apparently, for nearly a year-and-a-half, Newark Airport failed to meet a congressional deadline to electronically screen all checked luggage. Following FOUR YEARS of security breaches, on 10th March 2006 Newark airport's security chief was axed. It doesn’t say if that axe was one of the weapons they missed in their screening. (info courtesy of WCBS News Radio website)

So this, coupled with Continental Airlines failure on Friday evening, tells us what?

Thanks apaddyinuk, I will certainly be contacting Continental about various matters, especially the non-existent customer service. I suspect however, they will make light of the no-show bags. That is why I’d like to know who WILL be interested. I usually find the perpetrators of the misdeed will do anything to make you believe it wasn’t an issue. I too believe at times there is very little one can do about something, but I never let that stop me from trying.

Overall then, this episode gives us reassurance that we are in safe hands in these dangerous times. Not!

apaddyinuk

Spork if you feel that strongly about it...not that I really blame you, I would suggest you contact the TSA and the FAA in the States with an email or letter. At least then you have contacted the people who should (i think) be regulating this! Just an idea!

Let us know what the outcome is wont you?