Two Large Bags - No Passenger
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Yes - thanks for that. I see that the TSA website has a “Report Security Violations and Concerns” email address. I certainly do feel strongly about the possibility of another Lockerbie. Essentially Continental at Newark are inviting anyone to ship a large bag or bags on a packed passenger plane, and no, you don’t actually have to travel with it.
If anyone wants to counter that modern security screening makes that highly unlikely, just google “Newark airport security” and settle down for a long read…
If anyone wants to counter that modern security screening makes that highly unlikely, just google “Newark airport security” and settle down for a long read…
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Hmm...it is VERY unusual for bags to travel without the pax (Not Rush bags), but not completely unheard of.
At my airline we've actually called aircraft back on stand after push back in this situation!
Very bad of CO!
At my airline we've actually called aircraft back on stand after push back in this situation!
Very bad of CO!
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All the more interesting when you consider that Continental failed to help the inexperienced passenger catch the flight, then flew the bags without the passenger, then demanded £40 to reunite the passenger with the bags as they “failed to collect” the bags from the carousel. You would have to be a very clever pax to collect bags with the Atlantic between you and them.
We had to pay the £40 under duress of them keeping the bags, but obviously we will be pursuing all their failures. (I'm not sure who deals with that sort of problem) I predict a complete waste of our time and effort however, as in my experience, companies that act like this are usually right all the time, and customers are usually wrong all the time.
We had to pay the £40 under duress of them keeping the bags, but obviously we will be pursuing all their failures. (I'm not sure who deals with that sort of problem) I predict a complete waste of our time and effort however, as in my experience, companies that act like this are usually right all the time, and customers are usually wrong all the time.
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Hmm...it is VERY unusual for bags to travel without the pax (Not Rush bags), but not completely unheard of.
It's not a daily occurence, but certainly at leat once a week both from Newark and Houston!
We have alerted Continental's Head Office at Houston, even once writing directly to Larry Kellnher, their CEO, but our letters remain unanswered.
Last edited by bealine; 17th Aug 2006 at 08:00.
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Well, thanks everyone for all of the the detailed information. I will definitely post back on how this goes. Obviously these procedures have been in place for a long time, and of course this incident has now happened during “heightened security”.
10th March 2006, Marcus Arroyo, head of security at Newark was sacked - so whoever took over from him obviously cannot get it right either!
10th March 2006, Marcus Arroyo, head of security at Newark was sacked - so whoever took over from him obviously cannot get it right either!
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An update:
As I said here a while ago, companies that act like this are usually right all the time, and customers are usually wrong all the time. My letter of complaint to Houston addressed the issues: 1) Continental staff at more than one location failed to help the inexperienced passenger catch the flight, even when known to be late running into Newark, 2) Continental were happy, in the high alert state, to then fly the bags without the passenger, 3) Continental then demanded £40 to reunite the passenger with the bags.
I suppose it will come as no surprise in this day and age that Continental have completely ignored this written complaint, sent twice now. Interesting to see their claims with regard to “low levels of customer complaints”. That low level will be complaints they deal with, presumably.
I will continue to pursue all their failures until I get an answer, or get bored. I will however, for many many years of course, relate the story of their dismal performance to fellow travellers.
As I said here a while ago, companies that act like this are usually right all the time, and customers are usually wrong all the time. My letter of complaint to Houston addressed the issues: 1) Continental staff at more than one location failed to help the inexperienced passenger catch the flight, even when known to be late running into Newark, 2) Continental were happy, in the high alert state, to then fly the bags without the passenger, 3) Continental then demanded £40 to reunite the passenger with the bags.
I suppose it will come as no surprise in this day and age that Continental have completely ignored this written complaint, sent twice now. Interesting to see their claims with regard to “low levels of customer complaints”. That low level will be complaints they deal with, presumably.
I will continue to pursue all their failures until I get an answer, or get bored. I will however, for many many years of course, relate the story of their dismal performance to fellow travellers.
Maybe slightly off topic - but am i the only one to notice that on arrival at LHR T1 and in the baggage reclaim hall there are are a considerable about of baggage "unclaimed" that quite frankly lay around the reclaim belts (not on the belts but on the ground) where many do not even have "rush" tags on them. This has been curious to me in the past and more recently worrying. Is this just missing bags and if so - its not very confidence building to know that they just sit there awaiting say following morning movement to airlines to carry to destination. And i do want to re-iterate - this is not one or two bags - but a significant number and quite frankly they do get in the way of all pax trying to reclaim their own bags.
Nivsy
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I was surprised to hear a news item on Sunday saying that some passengers had checked in baggage at LHR and that they had then got held up at security and the flight had gone with their luggage and without them. This seems to negate the existing rules re unaccomapined baggage and fly in the face of the stringent security measures now in place.
If it happens due to reasons over which the pax has no control (rush bags, stuck in security etc.) and could not have predicted then it's hard for me to envision a threat situation under the circumstances. You may feel differently of course.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
It seems to me that you'd have to be pretty confident that the passenger had been involuntarily stuck in security, rather than contrived a reason to be held up in the queue or at the screening point - or, indeed, not actually been held up where he claimed to have been held up.
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If a passenger doesn't make it to the aircraft and the captain decides they are not waiting any longer, then the pax AND their bags are offloaded. At no time should an aircraft be dispatched knowingly with unnacompanied bags on board(Rush bags being the exception).
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nivsy I think it’s entirely relevant that you bring up apparent breaches of security, that’s what this thread is essentially about. It’s just a pity that the security bods are too busy taking paperbacks and Oil of Ulay off people in a huge queue not so far away, and haven’t got the time or resources for abandoned bags in the airport.
PaperTiger Sorry, what is a PPBM thing?
Globaliser Yes, that was my immediate thought too. The unattended baggage rules were put in place to protect travellers and crew. We pax have to obey, why don’t airlines? Why are the rules being ignored? Because it’s a bit inconvenient to have to offload a bag or two, that’s why. Much rather depart the gate on time and hope…
Strepsils Totally agree! One is a terrier with a bone on this one. The more Continental decide to ignore me on this security complaint the longer it will go on.
Worse still, it is clear from this thread that Continental are in the habit of doing this.
PaperTiger Sorry, what is a PPBM thing?
Globaliser Yes, that was my immediate thought too. The unattended baggage rules were put in place to protect travellers and crew. We pax have to obey, why don’t airlines? Why are the rules being ignored? Because it’s a bit inconvenient to have to offload a bag or two, that’s why. Much rather depart the gate on time and hope…
Strepsils Totally agree! One is a terrier with a bone on this one. The more Continental decide to ignore me on this security complaint the longer it will go on.
Worse still, it is clear from this thread that Continental are in the habit of doing this.
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You shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet 
If you've got documentary evidence of everything you allege together with evidence you have mailed the letters, I'd simply hit them in the small claims court for the £40. A letter from a court is always more likely to get an airline's attention than a letter from a disgruntled customer.
If you've got documentary evidence of everything you allege together with evidence you have mailed the letters, I'd simply hit them in the small claims court for the £40. A letter from a court is always more likely to get an airline's attention than a letter from a disgruntled customer.
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If it happens due to reasons over which the pax has no control (rush bags, stuck in security etc.) and could not have predicted then it's hard for me to envision a threat situation under the circumstances. You may feel differently of course.
Try this one.
Passenger has "medical emergency" jus before departure, e.g. panic attack at last minute, plane departs sans pax.
30 mins later pax, recovered, leaves airport and disappears.
60 mins later "boom."
Try this one.
Passenger has "medical emergency" jus before departure, e.g. panic attack at last minute, plane departs sans pax.
30 mins later pax, recovered, leaves airport and disappears.
60 mins later "boom."
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Originally Posted by spork;2862544[b
PaperTiger[/b] Sorry, what is a PPBM thing?
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If it happens due to reasons over which the pax has no control (rush bags, stuck in security etc.) and could not have predicted then it's hard for me to envision a threat situation under the circumstances. You may feel differently of course.
Try this one.
Passenger has "medical emergency" just before departure, e.g. panic attack at last minute, plane departs sans pax.
30 mins later pax, recovered, leaves airport and disappears.
60 mins later "boom."
Try this one.
Passenger has "medical emergency" just before departure, e.g. panic attack at last minute, plane departs sans pax.
30 mins later pax, recovered, leaves airport and disappears.
60 mins later "boom."
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I have often wondered about this, as the airline I fly most frequently often likes to put my bags on an earlier flight. I fly a lot of A class (since I am a large person, and need the space), and so there is an all coach flight that leaves my connecting city earlier than my actual flight. My bag is usually on the all-coach flight, which means my bag gets to the destination about 1 1/2 hours before I do.
Was once on a non-stop flight (same airline) that was oversold. I took the bump (with all the requisite freebies) and then watched my luggage get on the plane I was just bumped from. Mentioned it to the gate agent, who didn't seem to stressed about it.
I guess it's a pattern with this particular airline.
Now, it begs the question. "What if..."
Was once on a non-stop flight (same airline) that was oversold. I took the bump (with all the requisite freebies) and then watched my luggage get on the plane I was just bumped from. Mentioned it to the gate agent, who didn't seem to stressed about it.
I guess it's a pattern with this particular airline.
Now, it begs the question. "What if..."
Too mean to buy a long personal title
If the philosophy is that you prevent the pax from choosing to travel without his bag, then neither of those situations really falls foul of it (although both seem pretty close to the line, IMHO).
In the first case, you will never know whether the bag's on your flight or has been sent on ahead; in the second, when you packed and checked it in, you wouldn't have known whether there would be an opportunity to volunteer to fly on a different flight or whether your offer would be accepted. In either case, for all you knew you might have been on the same flight as your bag; ergo, no risk.
If, however, you'd asked to be positively offloaded in the second case, rather than just volunteering to be bumped at the airline's option if they needed it, then it seems to me that you would have been on the other side of the line.
In the first case, you will never know whether the bag's on your flight or has been sent on ahead; in the second, when you packed and checked it in, you wouldn't have known whether there would be an opportunity to volunteer to fly on a different flight or whether your offer would be accepted. In either case, for all you knew you might have been on the same flight as your bag; ergo, no risk.
If, however, you'd asked to be positively offloaded in the second case, rather than just volunteering to be bumped at the airline's option if they needed it, then it seems to me that you would have been on the other side of the line.
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Romeo Delta Have you ever wondered where your bags might get to? I've often thought that at the carousel one could purloin an extra bag if one felt inclined. (generic black nylon holdalls for example) If your bag regularly arrives hours before you, what route has it taken at the airport, and how do you locate it?
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You shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet
If you've got documentary evidence of everything you allege together with evidence you have mailed the letters, I'd simply hit them in the small claims court for the £40. A letter from a court is always more likely to get an airline's attention than a letter from a disgruntled customer.
If you've got documentary evidence of everything you allege together with evidence you have mailed the letters, I'd simply hit them in the small claims court for the £40. A letter from a court is always more likely to get an airline's attention than a letter from a disgruntled customer.
Can I put an American (Houston) address in a UK CC claim?
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No, but the judge will want to see evidence. CO must have a place of business in the UK, who did you give the £40 to? Go after them in your local small claims court, you can do it on the web, google "small claims court england".