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EASA licence and Aeros (again)

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EASA licence and Aeros (again)

Old 15th Oct 2012, 17:35
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EASA licence and Aeros (again)

Just had a member of a group I help out enquire about this, he is having to convert to EASA due to company requirements, he quoted CAP804 page Section 4 Part P page 33. (Page 515), this basically says he needs the 5 hours aeros in his log book and a statement by an aeros instructor (me) that he fits the requirements, this leads you to AMC1 in FCL800 page 263 setting out what needs to be covered. Think this is all that is needed and he can then have it included in licence or does anyone know more?
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Old 16th Oct 2012, 11:41
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If you are talking about having an EASA aerobatic rating issued, then that won't come into effect for another 3 years or so as the CAA have opted for a 3 year derogation for that and other non-JAR ratings, so approx. April 2015.
Of course plenty may change before then, like the shite about having to do 40 hours post-PPL before starting your EASA aeros course. Tossers.
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Old 16th Oct 2012, 16:20
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Whilst that is true, if you are getting an EASA licence issued the CAA have said that any ratings added at issue will have no charge, but to add them at a later date probably will incur an additional fee, the Aeros rating can be done on issue following the above procedure, I have just flown with my guy plus given him the grilling on the ground (under a suitable desk lamp pointing at his face of course) and sent him off with an appropriate letter, hopefully this will all go through smoothly, but I will await the result to confirm this.
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Old 16th Oct 2012, 18:48
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I'll be interested to see what happens. As I read it just now the aerobatic rating doens't exist yet - as there has never been a JAR equivalent - so it can't be added to a licence, EASA or not. However do let us know what happens as if it works I'll do the same thing!
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Old 16th Oct 2012, 21:33
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I'll be interested to see what happens. As I read it just now the aerobatic rating doens't exist yet - as there has never been a JAR equivalent - so it can't be added to a licence, EASA or not. However do let us know what happens as if it works I'll do the same thing!
It does exist - I have it on my EASA CPL. It may not be mandatory to have one yet, but the rating is there.
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Old 16th Oct 2012, 21:47
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DB6, perhaps you should read CAP 804 Section 4 Part P Page 32-33?
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 10:19
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Or in my case, first download the September update of CAP804 which until now I was unaware of....
Must have slipped past in the blizzard of email notices from the CAA. Foxmoth, ignore everything I said apart from the bit about EASA being tossers.
And now for some light reading.....where's the bogroll?
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 13:11
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where's the bogroll?
You've just downloaded it!
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 14:24
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Can anyone clarify this query? Can a G reg permit aircraft be flown on an EASA licence or is a UK National licence required...cannot find an answer in CAP804. thanks
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 16:24
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I may be wrong by I was unde the impression that an EASA licence was valid for both EASA and non EASA aircraft except those for which there is no equivalent class/type or additional rating under part FCL.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 19:14
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Nick thanks for that..but more specifically can a G reg NON EASA aircraft on a Permit to fly (non C of A )be flown on an EASA licence or is a national licence required??

CAP804 doesent cover this.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 20:37
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CAP804 doesn't cover this.
It wouldn't, try ORS4-894 and Article 50A of the UK ANO
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 21:11
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whopity..appreciate your input...despite having a copy of the ANO CAP393 it is a serious test of verbal reasoning ability to seek an answer to my original query within those documents. Nowhere in ORS4-894 or CAP 393 does it mention Permit to fly aircraft . Although the National licence continues to satisfy the Permit aircraft (and associated insurance liabilities)it is far from clear whether someone , for example , whose National licence expires and who elects to transfer to say a EASA PPL remains legally licenced and therefore Insured to fly the Permit aircraft.
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 22:08
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In pursuance of its powers under article 78(2) of the Air Navigation Order 2009 (“the Order”) the Civil Aviation Authority (“the CAA”) issues this validation for any Part-FCL licence, rendering valid for the purposes of article 50(1) of the Order any such licence and all ratings and certificates included in the licence for any non-EASA aircraft registered in the United Kingdom for which the holder of the licence has an aircraft rating in the licence and to which such ratings or certificates relate.
What is so difficult to understand? Any EASA licence is valid on any UK registered aircraft covered by the ratings included in it. Don't they teach English in school these days?
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Old 17th Oct 2012, 23:01
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Billie Bob, unfortunately not all NAAs see things the same way as the CAA and might not accept a visiting pilot flying a non-EASA aircraft on an EASA licence. This was hotly debated at EASA earlier in the week and I have asked the rulemakers (who do see things the same way as the CAA does!), to ensure that a statement is included somewhere which states unequivocally that an EASA licence may be used to fly non-EASA aircraft of the same Class as those included in the EASA licence.
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Old 18th Oct 2012, 06:35
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BEagle ..thank you for your measured and informative response which is helpful.Billie bob...the value of your post is diminished by your puerile and unecessary last words .......starting a sentence with the words "dont" hardly reassures me as to your command of English.
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Old 18th Oct 2012, 09:33
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unfortunately not all NAAs see things the same way as the CAA and might not accept a visiting pilot flying a non-EASA aircraft on an EASA licence.
That is undoubtedly true but, since the question related specifically to a "G reg permit aircraft" and the CAA have issued a clear and unambiguous statement covering exactly that subject, I struggle to see the relevance.

As an aside, it is difficult to see by what authority EASA is able to determine that their licence may be used on aircraft that they do not regulate. Whether an EASA licence may be used on a non-EASA aircraft is a matter solely for the state in which the non-EASA aircraft is registered.
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Old 18th Oct 2012, 14:23
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While chasing this up I see there have been two updates to CAP804 since I downloaded my version (May 12). I thought I had it covered in the CAA's email notification service, but it would seem not. Does anyone know what category they include CAP updates in?
I did have 'all' ticked but you know what happens then......
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Old 18th Oct 2012, 15:03
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That is undoubtedly true but, since the question related specifically to a "G reg permit aircraft" and the CAA have issued a clear and unambiguous statement covering exactly that subject, I struggle to see the relevance.
The IAA are not convinced that a UK pilot with a Part-FCL licence may legally fly a UK G-reg Annex II aircraft to Ireland.

That is the relevance; a shame you cannot see it....
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Old 18th Oct 2012, 19:44
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Beagle...once again an informative post which only confirms my original point that the whole issue of Annex 2 aircraft lacks clarity and surely it is far better to clarify this issue at the flight planning stage rather than potentially carry out an illegal flight. This dialogue proves that BB avidly devours the ANO etc yet has obviously no Instructing or Examining experience ......how does the phrase go?There are no stupid questions..only stupid answers!
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