Inventive Invoicing.
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Inventive Invoicing.
True story.
I run a small training school in the South-West. About 6 weeks ago a recently qualified PPL pitched up on a Sunday morning to fly, it was perhaps his 3rd flight since licence issue. It was obvious that he was looking for some kind of guidance( we all know what its like to have just left the safe haven of the training environment), so we discussed a few options. He expressed an interest in flying and landing at a local airfield not more than 20 mins away. No problem say i, but because the a/c is needed again in 2 hours he should consider doing it another day because time would be tight after weather, planning, notams, phone calls etc....
But he was a man on a mission and asked if there was any way he could fly there but not land. I said of course, fly to the o/head speak to them, turn around and come back to base. But he wanted something a bit more challenging, so, while calling the airfield before departing he asked if he may do an overhead join, make an approach to go around and then return to base. The response was in the affirmative, " absolutely no problem at all, just call on the RT".
The end result was a very happy pilot returning from what was for him a challenging flight, perfectly planned and executed.
Last week i received an invoice from the above airfield for a "circuit charge" plus an administration fee. The total of which came to more than if the chap had landed and taken off again. I have not passed on this charge to the pilot.
The airfield is uncontrolled, has no IAP's,no navaids, and is in uncontrolled airspace.
I am flabbergasted....
Interested to here anyone's comments.....discuss.
I run a small training school in the South-West. About 6 weeks ago a recently qualified PPL pitched up on a Sunday morning to fly, it was perhaps his 3rd flight since licence issue. It was obvious that he was looking for some kind of guidance( we all know what its like to have just left the safe haven of the training environment), so we discussed a few options. He expressed an interest in flying and landing at a local airfield not more than 20 mins away. No problem say i, but because the a/c is needed again in 2 hours he should consider doing it another day because time would be tight after weather, planning, notams, phone calls etc....
But he was a man on a mission and asked if there was any way he could fly there but not land. I said of course, fly to the o/head speak to them, turn around and come back to base. But he wanted something a bit more challenging, so, while calling the airfield before departing he asked if he may do an overhead join, make an approach to go around and then return to base. The response was in the affirmative, " absolutely no problem at all, just call on the RT".
The end result was a very happy pilot returning from what was for him a challenging flight, perfectly planned and executed.
Last week i received an invoice from the above airfield for a "circuit charge" plus an administration fee. The total of which came to more than if the chap had landed and taken off again. I have not passed on this charge to the pilot.
The airfield is uncontrolled, has no IAP's,no navaids, and is in uncontrolled airspace.
I am flabbergasted....
Interested to here anyone's comments.....discuss.
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If the other airfield didn't tell your customer there would be a charge for the approach when he called them, then they can't levy a fee, as a contract wasn't formed.
I'd check this point with your chap, if only to prevent him repeating the trip in the future!
Understanding the need for goodwill between neighbours, perhaps it would be as well to ring the principle of the other airfield to discuss the charge. If they still want to make a charge, a compromise might be to send them the landing fee only.
Sounds like a bit of sharp practise, but if you explain that your chap wasn't told there would be a charge, they may back straight down.
I'd check this point with your chap, if only to prevent him repeating the trip in the future!
Understanding the need for goodwill between neighbours, perhaps it would be as well to ring the principle of the other airfield to discuss the charge. If they still want to make a charge, a compromise might be to send them the landing fee only.
Sounds like a bit of sharp practise, but if you explain that your chap wasn't told there would be a charge, they may back straight down.
Originally Posted by tacpot
If the other airfield didn't tell your customer there would be a charge for the approach when he called them, then they can't levy a fee, as a contract wasn't formed.
That said, it would be difficult to argue that an aircraft making an approach without landing at an uncontrolled aerodrome was making use of the services of the aerodrome.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Have you tried calling the airfield and having a polite chat with whoever is in charge?
First things first.
VFE.
First things first.
VFE.
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If it was a VFR flight to an airfield outside controlled airspace not making use of any of their navigation aids (if they had any) then the aerodrome can not charge.
Should you pay that fee then you leave yourself open to paying every time you call that airfield on the radio or pass through the ATZ or the overhead if they have no ATZ.
The aerodrome can only charge is a movement occured and in this case it did not.
Do not pay because I and everyone else is entitled to safely fly in the vicinity of that aerodrome without having to pay the owner for the privelege. The pattern we fly makes little difference as does the height provided it is legal.
What next? Farmers charging for making PFLs over their land?
Contact AOPA ASAP and have this stamped out before it gains momentum.
Regards,
DFC
Should you pay that fee then you leave yourself open to paying every time you call that airfield on the radio or pass through the ATZ or the overhead if they have no ATZ.
The aerodrome can only charge is a movement occured and in this case it did not.
Do not pay because I and everyone else is entitled to safely fly in the vicinity of that aerodrome without having to pay the owner for the privelege. The pattern we fly makes little difference as does the height provided it is legal.
What next? Farmers charging for making PFLs over their land?
Contact AOPA ASAP and have this stamped out before it gains momentum.
Regards,
DFC
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Have you ever refused to pay at the end of a journey in a car with a large sign marked "TAXI" on the roof, on the basis that the driver didn't explain at the beginning of the trip that there would be a fare to pay?
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The airfield in question does have an ATZ and is licensed. It has at least 3 clubs/schools that i know of. I have used this airfield(and many others) on numerous occasions for "on the hoof" training scenarios including PFL's(after checking with the FISO's that i won't upset their traffic of course), unplanned diversions, low level bad wx precautionary landing type diverts and have not been charged unless we've actually landed.
I have opened a dialogue with the management but as yet have no satisfactory conclusion. If this remains the case then i shall name and shame; not because i enjoy slinging mud around but if only to avert what may become a common practice.
I have opened a dialogue with the management but as yet have no satisfactory conclusion. If this remains the case then i shall name and shame; not because i enjoy slinging mud around but if only to avert what may become a common practice.
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Originally Posted by baraka
The airfield in question does have an ATZ and is licensed. It has at least 3 clubs/schools that i know of. I have used this airfield(and many others) on numerous occasions for "on the hoof" training scenarios including PFL's(after checking with the FISO's that i won't upset their traffic of course), unplanned diversions, low level bad wx precautionary landing type diverts and have not been charged unless we've actually landed.
A FISO may not provide an ATC Service, and there can be no navigation charges.
Firstly, ask them what they are charging for! Then if it states any of the services they cannot provide, send a copy to the CAA.
Do not pay the bill under any circumstances, so long as the pilot did not land touch and go etc.
Firstly, ask them what they are charging for! Then if it states any of the services they cannot provide, send a copy to the CAA.
Do not pay the bill under any circumstances, so long as the pilot did not land touch and go etc.
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I am pleased to announce that a positive outcome has been reached and all charges have been waived, a credit note should be winging its way to me as i write. Still not sure how this happened, wether it was a genuine clerical error. an over zealous employee or something more ominous i do not know. Thankfully i do keep my finger on the pulse as it were when it comes to invoices moving through the office otherwise it would have just steamed through the system with the hundreds of others i seem to get nowadays!
Thanks for your responses and opinions people, some interesting ideas there.
bye now...
Thanks for your responses and opinions people, some interesting ideas there.
bye now...
