Feeling eternally trapped as a FI.
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Feeling eternally trapped as a FI.
Ive been an FI for more than 3 years- doing all ratings, I have more than 1600 hours, 29 years old, but just over the last 6 months ive been feeling trapped and wonder how much longer it will take me to get that first break into the airlines.
Cant seem to find any real opportunities out there even though you are constantly told that the market is brilliant. Dont get me wrong still enjoy instructing and its far better to be on the other side of the fence compared to those plane spotters!!
Do any of you guys feel the same?
Cant seem to find any real opportunities out there even though you are constantly told that the market is brilliant. Dont get me wrong still enjoy instructing and its far better to be on the other side of the fence compared to those plane spotters!!
Do any of you guys feel the same?
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wonder how much longer it will take me to get that first break into the airlines.
When I started (someone swing the lamp for me) no one expected to go straight from instructing into the airlines, the normal route was from instructing into an Aztec/Seneca or similar on Air Taxi, then into something like a Kingair befoe a RH seat Turboprop Airline Job.
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All very well but even getting a break with air charter companies is still a challenge. They all want commercial experience and Twin hours so back to the same old catch 22 situation. As instructors there are not many schools teaching on twins, the exceptions being the commercial schools so not much chance of getting free twin time and I'm afraid I can't afford the best part of £150-£200 per hour to build my twin time.
I would be more than happy to go this route but still pretty difficult.
I would be more than happy to go this route but still pretty difficult.
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IMC007
You say that you have experience of teaching all levels so am I correct in assuming that you have an IR ?
If you do then there are a number of job openings at the moment with large commercial academies teaching JAR CPL/ME/IR which will allow you to build multi- time while you teach
This will also provide a "reasonable" level of income
Suggest you start sending out the CV and follow up with telephone / visit
You say that you have experience of teaching all levels so am I correct in assuming that you have an IR ?
If you do then there are a number of job openings at the moment with large commercial academies teaching JAR CPL/ME/IR which will allow you to build multi- time while you teach
This will also provide a "reasonable" level of income
Suggest you start sending out the CV and follow up with telephone / visit
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I would be more than happy to go this route but still pretty difficult.
Without paying money out persistance is the only way I am afraid!
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I've also been instructing for just over three years, didn't get a sniff of an interview for then first two years, in the last year i've had three and am currently swimming in the BACon holding Pool. PPL CFI approaching 1200 hours as I seem to be flying my desk a lot recently and don't always have the time to do too much flying. Just keep your head up mate you will get there in the end. Make sure that your CV and covering letter are up to scratch if you haven't already that might make all the difference.
Hope this helps,
Han.
Hope this helps,
Han.
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Feeling eternally trapped as a FI.
Feel the same quite often. But given good wx, aircraft servicable, punter turns up on time, atc in a good mood, looking down at the endless traffic jams in rush hour remembering how life used to be before you did this for a living......things could be alot worse couldn't they?
Money's still crap mind!!Hang in there my friend...
Money's still crap mind!!Hang in there my friend...
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99,
I totally understand what you are going through.
In my opinion you have enough hours for the airlines. All you need is a break and/or contacts. Have you thought of giving up full-time flying, then getting a job in an airline operations department; whilst maybe instructing part-time?
This idea would both get your foot in the door and allow you the opportunity to keep flying part-time. Operations jobs normally work on a 4 days on, 4 days off basis - and of course you would be on a healthier salary.
Good luck and keep going!
L.
I totally understand what you are going through.
In my opinion you have enough hours for the airlines. All you need is a break and/or contacts. Have you thought of giving up full-time flying, then getting a job in an airline operations department; whilst maybe instructing part-time?
This idea would both get your foot in the door and allow you the opportunity to keep flying part-time. Operations jobs normally work on a 4 days on, 4 days off basis - and of course you would be on a healthier salary.
Good luck and keep going!
L.
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I agree with Lembrado.
You are edging towards to many hours SEP and getting into another problem area unless you move on in the instructing world to CPL and IR instruction.
If you do want to continue instructing you maybe have to move to an airfield which has more commercial operators working out of it. This will not only get the networking side of things going but also get you a "local address" to a base. If you havn't even had a sniff of an interview I would bite the bullet and invest in one of Pilot Pete's or that other lady who'e name escapes me for a CV and interview course.
I know it might be a bit of a change of lifestyle for you but Aberdeen has always had a bit of a problem keeping instructors more than 6 months due to them all disappearing off to local based operators. Flight academy scotland have been advertising for FI's there quite recently. Maybe Mister Geezer can fill you in a bit more on the situation there.
Or are you only applying to jet operators? Most people I have heard about recently who have gone up the ladder away from instructing have been taken on by turboprop operators. Don't knock it, these new TP's are just as well if not better equiped than the older jets and the pay isn't that bad (In fact its pretty good compared to instructing, working at McDonalds etc etc just not as good as a 757 FO but then again you don't have to live in MAN and the like so your standard of living is better). And they are quite good fun to fly with relatively short sectors and lots of landings in all sorts of airfields.
Good luck
MJ
You are edging towards to many hours SEP and getting into another problem area unless you move on in the instructing world to CPL and IR instruction.
If you do want to continue instructing you maybe have to move to an airfield which has more commercial operators working out of it. This will not only get the networking side of things going but also get you a "local address" to a base. If you havn't even had a sniff of an interview I would bite the bullet and invest in one of Pilot Pete's or that other lady who'e name escapes me for a CV and interview course.
I know it might be a bit of a change of lifestyle for you but Aberdeen has always had a bit of a problem keeping instructors more than 6 months due to them all disappearing off to local based operators. Flight academy scotland have been advertising for FI's there quite recently. Maybe Mister Geezer can fill you in a bit more on the situation there.
Or are you only applying to jet operators? Most people I have heard about recently who have gone up the ladder away from instructing have been taken on by turboprop operators. Don't knock it, these new TP's are just as well if not better equiped than the older jets and the pay isn't that bad (In fact its pretty good compared to instructing, working at McDonalds etc etc just not as good as a 757 FO but then again you don't have to live in MAN and the like so your standard of living is better). And they are quite good fun to fly with relatively short sectors and lots of landings in all sorts of airfields.
Good luck
MJ
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The worm will turn
Unfortunatly you have come to the market just as most of the airlines have been taken in by all this intigrated (F)ATPL course bull that the big training providors are pushing out to the airlines, some of the airlines have also discovered a way of getting tax breaks on the training that the sutdent pilot is paying for.
The bottom line is that untill the airlines catch on to the fact that they are spending more money on extra sim training that they save on tax to produce a first officer who is only just able to control the aircraft without the autopilot then things wont change.
It is a sad fact that the industry has been drawn in by all the bull about psycometric tests and selection to get onto an intigrated course and the quality product that this is "said" to produce, the plane fact is the only entry requirement that I can see is a cheque twice the size of that needed for a modular course.
I can now feel the blood of intigrated course pilots boiling but the sad fact is that they have never made an independant avation decision in there lives and don't have very much "hands on" flying time and therefor skill, they are very good at going heads down into the FMC but do I want that at 5000ft in the London TMA?. I would rather they spent more time looking out of the window (large reality display for intigrated students).
I can't let one of these pepole land the aircraft at all but the largest airfields without checking there ability and have had to take control during a landing on an increasing rate.
The sad fact is that unless the student is very gifted these people don't get enough hands on flying, some of the then have never spun an aircraft or flown at more than 60 degrees of bank, what is this saying about the ability that they have in a major upset?
I would much rather be sitting next to a 1500 hour ex-instructor and very soon the bean counters will see the error of the the "intigrated only" BS that the industry has been taken in by and you will get your chance with an airline .................... I look forward to flying with you.
The bottom line is that untill the airlines catch on to the fact that they are spending more money on extra sim training that they save on tax to produce a first officer who is only just able to control the aircraft without the autopilot then things wont change.
It is a sad fact that the industry has been drawn in by all the bull about psycometric tests and selection to get onto an intigrated course and the quality product that this is "said" to produce, the plane fact is the only entry requirement that I can see is a cheque twice the size of that needed for a modular course.
I can now feel the blood of intigrated course pilots boiling but the sad fact is that they have never made an independant avation decision in there lives and don't have very much "hands on" flying time and therefor skill, they are very good at going heads down into the FMC but do I want that at 5000ft in the London TMA?. I would rather they spent more time looking out of the window (large reality display for intigrated students).
I can't let one of these pepole land the aircraft at all but the largest airfields without checking there ability and have had to take control during a landing on an increasing rate.
The sad fact is that unless the student is very gifted these people don't get enough hands on flying, some of the then have never spun an aircraft or flown at more than 60 degrees of bank, what is this saying about the ability that they have in a major upset?
I would much rather be sitting next to a 1500 hour ex-instructor and very soon the bean counters will see the error of the the "intigrated only" BS that the industry has been taken in by and you will get your chance with an airline .................... I look forward to flying with you.
Last edited by A and C; 26th May 2006 at 12:47.
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A and C,
Well said sir, I couldnt put it better myself!!
Unfortunatly, these guys think the sun shines out of their
and come out of training with ego's bigger than the A380.
Different story when you put them in a SEP with a difficult student on crap wx day doing x-wind landings, how will they cope then I ask?
Hang in there Mach, the light is at the end of the tunnel.
Well said sir, I couldnt put it better myself!!
Unfortunatly, these guys think the sun shines out of their
and come out of training with ego's bigger than the A380.Different story when you put them in a SEP with a difficult student on crap wx day doing x-wind landings, how will they cope then I ask?
Hang in there Mach, the light is at the end of the tunnel.
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Slightly acute but nonetheless relevant, several (5) colleagues have recently departed the integrated FTO I work at to join regional carriers operating turboprops (& congratulations to them). All were MEIR FI's with thousands of hours between them. None even got a sniff of a job with a mainline or charter carrier (BA,bmi,thomsonfly etc).
This morning I received an e-mail from a former "problem" student of same school who required a significant amount of additional training at all levels of the syllabus & had particular difficulty with the concept of landing.
The e-mail was accompanied by a picture of former student in uniform posing next to a 130 seat U.S. built airliner whilst completing base training with a well known Big Airline in the U.K.
What is wrong with this picture? Answers on a postcard.....
This morning I received an e-mail from a former "problem" student of same school who required a significant amount of additional training at all levels of the syllabus & had particular difficulty with the concept of landing.
The e-mail was accompanied by a picture of former student in uniform posing next to a 130 seat U.S. built airliner whilst completing base training with a well known Big Airline in the U.K.
What is wrong with this picture? Answers on a postcard.....
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mate,
crap it is. I remember it very well. So does my bank manager, my wife, my patient family and friends, local livestock etc. Your 50th hour in the circuit on that particular month really makes you want to end it all immediately dosent it? I was in your position some time ago now, one more student who can't find the biggest position fix in the uk in ten k's vis and you think you may quit.
Thing is dude, the best way out of your position, I think, because it works every time and you can have influence on it, is to get to know the people in the layer just above your own. Find the guys flying single pilot on things like senecas and king airs. The seneca drivers will let you log the dead legs (of which there are usually two per day) unless they are the sort of pillocks that carry on about being the aircraft commander and how they should be chief pilot next week. Once you have 40 hours p1 on class, you will be eligable to work on an air taxi bloke's aoc. There are usually a few looking for pilots. Most come fom the instructing world and like you (hopefully after reading this) have had the balls to go and find some twin time from somewhere. I NEVER MET ANYONE WHO PAID FOR IT!!!
Because so many low hours guys are getting work out of playschool, there are no fine young chaps coming through the old way and the caa ops inspectors look at you funny when you suggest 200hrs is enough to send someone off at night on their own to spain with a box of bits. All this means that the experienced charter pilots are going to the larger operators who apreciate their experience and there is no bugger to fill their shoes. Oh bugger says the man who has the aoc. Such is life for them but it makes sense for you. It can be dead scary but you will learn loads and whatever the twats in the bar say, most operators just love an ex air taxi pilot.
My wife does.
Look on the bright side, Top Gun is on sky one at the minute, that should be a laugh, and let's face it you're probably not as much of a tosser as Val Kilmer.
tata,
Bp.
crap it is. I remember it very well. So does my bank manager, my wife, my patient family and friends, local livestock etc. Your 50th hour in the circuit on that particular month really makes you want to end it all immediately dosent it? I was in your position some time ago now, one more student who can't find the biggest position fix in the uk in ten k's vis and you think you may quit.
Thing is dude, the best way out of your position, I think, because it works every time and you can have influence on it, is to get to know the people in the layer just above your own. Find the guys flying single pilot on things like senecas and king airs. The seneca drivers will let you log the dead legs (of which there are usually two per day) unless they are the sort of pillocks that carry on about being the aircraft commander and how they should be chief pilot next week. Once you have 40 hours p1 on class, you will be eligable to work on an air taxi bloke's aoc. There are usually a few looking for pilots. Most come fom the instructing world and like you (hopefully after reading this) have had the balls to go and find some twin time from somewhere. I NEVER MET ANYONE WHO PAID FOR IT!!!
Because so many low hours guys are getting work out of playschool, there are no fine young chaps coming through the old way and the caa ops inspectors look at you funny when you suggest 200hrs is enough to send someone off at night on their own to spain with a box of bits. All this means that the experienced charter pilots are going to the larger operators who apreciate their experience and there is no bugger to fill their shoes. Oh bugger says the man who has the aoc. Such is life for them but it makes sense for you. It can be dead scary but you will learn loads and whatever the twats in the bar say, most operators just love an ex air taxi pilot.
My wife does.
Look on the bright side, Top Gun is on sky one at the minute, that should be a laugh, and let's face it you're probably not as much of a tosser as Val Kilmer.
tata,
Bp.
