U.S. Trained Flight Insructors
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U.S. Trained Flight Insructors
I cannot seem to find the pleasant messages that talked about U.S. trained Private Pilots, and the subsequent tirade about training here. My only question is, if training here is so poor, why is the accident/incident rate not any higher than that of Europe?
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There is more to flying an aeroplane than avoiding a crash and, therefore, becoming a statistic. Perhaps it is pertinent that FAA instructors ,on the whole, do not understand the importance of learning to understand how their aeroplane flies.
I have just taught, for the first time, the concept of 'attitude' to a FAA instructor who has over 1000 hrs 'dual given'. God help his previous students when the going gets tough cos it's a sure bet their previous instruction won't!
I have just taught, for the first time, the concept of 'attitude' to a FAA instructor who has over 1000 hrs 'dual given'. God help his previous students when the going gets tough cos it's a sure bet their previous instruction won't!
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Rolling C. - we may have disagreed in the past, but I'm absolutely 100% per cent in agreement with you on this!! The poor ex-USA PPLs I've checked had never heard of flight by reference to attitude. 'Lookout, Attitude, Instruments' was a total new dawn to them!! Did you find similar difficulties with an inability to teach Descending 2?? Particularly the difference between descending and descending to a fixed touchdown reference point??
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Ahhh - BEagle, now you're talking sense! Descending 2, of course, has little to do with the approach to land. However, if Bloggs cannot grasp the importance of PWR=ROD and CC=IAS there is no hope left in the world and we'll all end up off the end of the runway. G'day Bruce!!
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Thanks. But I recall getting an enormous chewing out by A Certain Standardisation Unit From Sunny Scampton for NOT intro'ing the rather tetchy Bloggs-pretender in the other seat to 'point and power' after we got back to the aerodrome at the end of Desc2!! What I wanted to say was that, as well as never having been taught to fly by reference to visual attitudes, my 'US-trained' PPLs hadn't apparently been taught any technique at all for the maintenance of the final approach and selection of the touchdown point!! I guess they just did things by rote!! Not wanting to broach the subject of navigation with you again, but I've now heard of a 'US-trained' PPL whose navigation training consisted of being flown from one aerodrome to another and then being told "Just do it like that tomorrow on your solo!!".
How did they EVER get to the moon??
How did they EVER get to the moon??
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Ahhh love is in the air. So The PPL's were not very intelligent. I understand from speaking to European pilots that things are very difficult there. Is it really the same for U.S. trained (sorry!) Commercial pilots and A.T.P.'s? Maybe it is just our accent...
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I don't want to turn this thread into a CFS standardisation seminar but....
The skill that is taught in Desc 2 is that of co-ordinating left and right hands to establish a constant descent path. That descent path may not be the correct one for the approach to a runway and, therefore, the 'approach' is not pertinent at this stage. However, having taught the essential skill, it is perfectly acceptable, nay important, to teach the next step - achieving a specific descent path (that appropriate to a runway approach)- on return to the airfield.
It is the failure of instructors to teach that very important final step which results in so many poorly controlled approaches and, consequently, poorly executed landings.
The other clear difference between our understandings is that, in my day (voice goes wavery and walking stick is waved), pilots of both Chipmunks and Bulldogs did not use point & power on the approach. The relative merits of the two approach techniques is, however, another matter and definitely not one for this thread.
The skill that is taught in Desc 2 is that of co-ordinating left and right hands to establish a constant descent path. That descent path may not be the correct one for the approach to a runway and, therefore, the 'approach' is not pertinent at this stage. However, having taught the essential skill, it is perfectly acceptable, nay important, to teach the next step - achieving a specific descent path (that appropriate to a runway approach)- on return to the airfield.
It is the failure of instructors to teach that very important final step which results in so many poorly controlled approaches and, consequently, poorly executed landings.
The other clear difference between our understandings is that, in my day (voice goes wavery and walking stick is waved), pilots of both Chipmunks and Bulldogs did not use point & power on the approach. The relative merits of the two approach techniques is, however, another matter and definitely not one for this thread.
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That explains things!! We most definitely were expected to teach 'point and power' in the Bulldog and Chipmunk. Others disagreed about the wisdom of this, but we did as we were told....and it worked fine!! Still does in the PA28!! But do they teach ANY technique in the USA??
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Gently boys, I thought we were all in this together. Which still goes harks back to the original question I had, why is it that the accident rate is no higher, or even less than it is in Europe? Needless to say, we have all had incidents with incompetent pilots. Still it behooves us as professionals to be vigilant (yes, here too). It appears that most of the complaints so far are simply about a lack of experience in the operating environment that you are all talking about.
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The Bulldog is an excellent military trainer - but would have severe economic limitations as a privately owned aircraft. Expensive CSU and VP propeller, relatively high fuel consumption and only 2-seats, small-ish fuel tanks.......and if someone damaged that lovely clear canopy, where would you ever get another? But if you've got loadsamoney, it would be fun to have your own. Unless 'Arfur Daley' from the MoD flogged you one with no fatigue left and big holes in the panel where the UHF, VOR/DME and Transponder once were - and only the MoD would install an ILS with no Marker receiver and a DME that was always slaved to the VOR/ILS receiver no matter what. But despite all that, it's still a vastly better aerobatic machine than the wretched T67 - which has a roll rate only marginally better than an Airbus!! Best bet if you've got a spare £40K might be to look for a nice Europa.......or a Pitts??
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I know I'm restoring a relic thread, but having just joined you all I feel that this is one subject that I must comment on!
US trained pilots are (generally) s**t!
navigation training appears to be:
1/turn on GPS
2/hit goto
3/match the numbers
Radio work seems to be:
1/bloke in the tower is your best buddy
2/talk to him as if he is
3/speak really really fast
4/he knows where you are.....you don't need to tell him!
landings?????
more like arrivals!!!
and brakepads must be cheap in the US....every yank pilot i have flown with wears them out taxiing!!
anyway....have a nice day....and make sure you stop before the runway does!
US trained pilots are (generally) s**t!
navigation training appears to be:
1/turn on GPS
2/hit goto
3/match the numbers
Radio work seems to be:
1/bloke in the tower is your best buddy
2/talk to him as if he is
3/speak really really fast
4/he knows where you are.....you don't need to tell him!
landings?????
more like arrivals!!!
and brakepads must be cheap in the US....every yank pilot i have flown with wears them out taxiing!!
anyway....have a nice day....and make sure you stop before the runway does!
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Denny's has unlimited refills of coffee. I find in all my discussions with pilots from Europe it always comes down to fact that you all insist we have lower standards. I say they are just different. The volume of traffic and the size of this country dictate it. At the same time, we are remarkably safe. Despite your misgivings, the results speak for themself. Denny's also is open 24/7.
[This message has been edited by dicko (edited 07 December 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dicko (edited 07 December 1999).]
