spinnaphobia
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
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From: north of barlu
The RAF made an instrutional film (it was befor video)called "spinning modern aircraft" despite the fact that the newest aircraft that you will see is the hunter and the fact that the film will be so old that the picture quality will be worse than a blue movie it shows the student all that they need to know about spinning and removes all the flying club bar room BS.
Once you know all about the spin the spinnaphobia will go away.
Remember stall + yaw = spin.
Once you know all about the spin the spinnaphobia will go away.
Remember stall + yaw = spin.
Guest
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It was re-made about ten years ago using the Tucano as the model. It is called 'The Spin Explained' and is better than spinning modern aircraft. Watch it if you get a chance.
With regards to use of rudder and aileron in recovery, it depends on the type of aircraft. Those with a T-tail, simultaneous application is oft quoted. This is because there is little blanking effect of the rudder from a down deflected elevator and there is no requirement to wait for the rudder to take effect first.
However, the real process is a little more complex than that. The full spin is defined as being the state where the gyroscopic forces have balanced the aerodynamic forces. Any control input should be allowed to stabilze before another is made, so waiting to apply elevator after the rudder application is wise.
With regards to use of rudder and aileron in recovery, it depends on the type of aircraft. Those with a T-tail, simultaneous application is oft quoted. This is because there is little blanking effect of the rudder from a down deflected elevator and there is no requirement to wait for the rudder to take effect first.
However, the real process is a little more complex than that. The full spin is defined as being the state where the gyroscopic forces have balanced the aerodynamic forces. Any control input should be allowed to stabilze before another is made, so waiting to apply elevator after the rudder application is wise.
Guest
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I take your point WWW. I have to admit to my ignorance about the certification of more than 3 turns before I spoke to my CFI. The reason we'd had the conversation was that I was keeping it for longer to show how on certain types the characteristics of the spin do change. I was (gently!) advised that this was a bad idea, especially if I wanted to live to see 24, his words not mine.
As to signing PPL's out in more exotic types, luckily I don't have to worry about that at the moment. To be honest, I wouldn't trust most to get out of a spin in a 152 let alone something (relatively) nastier.
This brings back the old argument tho'. If someone is incompetent enough to induce a spin accidentally at low level, do you think they would have the werewithall to get out of it safely?? (I'm not talking about aero's, just normal flying) I don't think so, unfortunately.
I hate funerals aswell, there's been too many of them this year already. R.I.P
[This message has been edited by Say again s l o w l y (edited 25 June 2001).]
As to signing PPL's out in more exotic types, luckily I don't have to worry about that at the moment. To be honest, I wouldn't trust most to get out of a spin in a 152 let alone something (relatively) nastier.
This brings back the old argument tho'. If someone is incompetent enough to induce a spin accidentally at low level, do you think they would have the werewithall to get out of it safely?? (I'm not talking about aero's, just normal flying) I don't think so, unfortunately.
I hate funerals aswell, there's been too many of them this year already. R.I.P
[This message has been edited by Say again s l o w l y (edited 25 June 2001).]
Guest
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Well as part of my spin appreciation for PPL i never even got briefed what was going to happen. The only thing we were told was for lesson 17a and b, chokes etc were cleaned out. Went up as usual cleared daytona air space, over the sea at 4000ft the inst did a quick s to check down below, then we were looking at the sea as he was showing me what to do. I thought it was great. In fact later on when i was using up instruction time for the PPL for over an hour he had me doing them again under the hood, eyes shut 1 spin 2 spin 3 spin eyes open, sort that out (spinning both directions). Mind you it was the only thing OJ is good for is dropping out of the sky it certainly isnt a performance climb.
MJ
MJ
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BEagle - don't mock what you haven't tried! Actually, I have never flown a Hunter. But the film is very good, the subject is immaterial. But spinning the Tucano is good fun - even inverted!
[This message has been edited by Dan Winterland (edited 26 June 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Dan Winterland (edited 26 June 2001).]
Guest
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In a masochistic sort of way, this is all helpful stuff too (ding dong, Round X)
But.. Fun?? You are kidding, right??
Lying sweatily awake thinking through it (cue inevitable ribaldry), and going through the drill mentally, the worst bit is just the notion of forcing the wee aeroplane to do something alien. Pulling back and kicking until it tumbles.. Yeuch.
But.. Fun?? You are kidding, right??
Lying sweatily awake thinking through it (cue inevitable ribaldry), and going through the drill mentally, the worst bit is just the notion of forcing the wee aeroplane to do something alien. Pulling back and kicking until it tumbles.. Yeuch.
Guest
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Jungle Strip - I remember the first time I went spinning, it was the first thing I did after my PPL. I was told by the instructor to climb to 5,000ft and to practise slow flight on the way. I got real good at flying very slowly and hardly climbing at all, all because I wanted to delay the spin entry. I could probably have made the climb last longer than the fuel in the tanks! Eventually the moment could be delayed no longer and the instructor showed me a spin, my heart pouding and palms sweating all the way to the stall and spin entry. To my surprise and delight it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. By the time we'd done another two the dreaded spin dragon that existed in my head hadn't exactly been slain, but had at least gone to sleep.
As with many things, the anticipation and anxiety make it seem much much worse than the reality, if only the same could be said of going to the dentist :-). Book yourself that flight, preferably with an instructor you know, trust and get along with and go for it.
Ian
As with many things, the anticipation and anxiety make it seem much much worse than the reality, if only the same could be said of going to the dentist :-). Book yourself that flight, preferably with an instructor you know, trust and get along with and go for it.
Ian
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Many many years ago, my instructor said to me "if all else fails, let go!" He was of course refering to what to do in the event of a spin and not remembering (or being too scared!)how to recover.
This may sound flippent but it will work. The MOST IMPORTANT point here is whether or not you have enough height to recover.
Spin at altitude......you live. Spin on turn to final .......you die!
Spin recovery is all well and good, BUT, avoiding the stall/recovering from stall or wing drop is MUCH more important.
IMHO it is not really important to know how to recover from a spin, but it is VITAL to be competent in the art of stall recognition and recovery.
BTW I will show a student a spin if they wish otherwise I don't.
Happy landings
JWF
This may sound flippent but it will work. The MOST IMPORTANT point here is whether or not you have enough height to recover.
Spin at altitude......you live. Spin on turn to final .......you die!
Spin recovery is all well and good, BUT, avoiding the stall/recovering from stall or wing drop is MUCH more important.
IMHO it is not really important to know how to recover from a spin, but it is VITAL to be competent in the art of stall recognition and recovery.
BTW I will show a student a spin if they wish otherwise I don't.
Happy landings
JWF
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A + C,
The film is published by SSVC who have a site at www.ssvc.com They don't have a catalogue on the site, but I have e-mailed them to ask if it is available and at what price. There is also another excellent video called 'the propellor expalined' which I have also asked about.
The film is published by SSVC who have a site at www.ssvc.com They don't have a catalogue on the site, but I have e-mailed them to ask if it is available and at what price. There is also another excellent video called 'the propellor expalined' which I have also asked about.
Guest
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Just going back a bit (because I'm slow)the question of spinning always raises fearful questions, mainly I think because the club house banter (including from intructors) is full of tails of daring do and great risk in spinning, followed by a sortie with the only instructor in the club brave enough to spin, who would close the throttle, raise the nose to slow down, and then yank the stick back and apply full rudder, flicking te aircraft violently into a spin, resulting, in the words of Neil Williams, another student consineded to the ranks of straight and level.
As to getting out of one, surley if you lead with forward stick all you do is convert a positve (errect) spin into a negative,(inverted) spin. If on the other hasnd you apply opposite rudder and wait too long you reverse the spin direction becasue the a/c is still stalled.
As far as letting go to recover is conserned, this works well in some a/c even if it takes a bit of time, but you may still have to apply opposite rudder to make it work.
The really fun bit starts when in a rush to stop the thing spinning you start applying aileron into and against the spin.
My advice is don't just settle for a few spins in a spam can type, but go and do a proper spin course in an a/c designed for the job, that will allay any fears of just about anything:
erect and inverted spins, witha nd without power, accelorated spins and flat spins. All different but emmense fund and mega confidence building.
As to getting out of one, surley if you lead with forward stick all you do is convert a positve (errect) spin into a negative,(inverted) spin. If on the other hasnd you apply opposite rudder and wait too long you reverse the spin direction becasue the a/c is still stalled.
As far as letting go to recover is conserned, this works well in some a/c even if it takes a bit of time, but you may still have to apply opposite rudder to make it work.
The really fun bit starts when in a rush to stop the thing spinning you start applying aileron into and against the spin.
My advice is don't just settle for a few spins in a spam can type, but go and do a proper spin course in an a/c designed for the job, that will allay any fears of just about anything:
erect and inverted spins, witha nd without power, accelorated spins and flat spins. All different but emmense fund and mega confidence building.
Guest
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JWF - letting go will work in MOST aircraft, but some DO need a proper recovery technique to come out, and advocating this instead of learning the CORRECT recovery technique is potentialy lethal on some aircraft.
Flickoff - If you push forward you will unstall the aircraft, so it will NOT convert to a negative spin ( unless you keep pushing forward and stall it AGAIN, still with yaw , but to do that accidentally would be INCREDIBLY ham fisted)
Flickoff - If you push forward you will unstall the aircraft, so it will NOT convert to a negative spin ( unless you keep pushing forward and stall it AGAIN, still with yaw , but to do that accidentally would be INCREDIBLY ham fisted)
Guest
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The Spin Explained and The Propellor Explained are available from SSVC at the price of £60+VAT each. E Mail [email protected] with your order if you're feeling flush.
Guest
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I recall reading somewhere (the all knowledgeable `somewhere') that Beech had originally intended to get the BE76 approved for spinning.
According to the article they did most of the required work, including assymetric spins.
Not sure where I read it though.
Quite different to the US Army's stall testing of the Baron. The article I read about that said that failure to initiate a recovery within a 1/4 or 1/2 turn or so led to something not easily/likely to recover.
Wish I still had the articles.
According to the article they did most of the required work, including assymetric spins.
Not sure where I read it though.
Quite different to the US Army's stall testing of the Baron. The article I read about that said that failure to initiate a recovery within a 1/4 or 1/2 turn or so led to something not easily/likely to recover.
Wish I still had the articles.