Nighty night
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Nighty night
We all know that for a night qualification to be added to a ppl, amongst other things, we need to get the student to do 5 take offs and 5 full stop landings.
Now, had a chap do his qualification a few days ago and did an hour or so in the circuit. He called ready, lined up, took off, did a circuit, landed, stopped and then cleared the active five times to satisfy the requirements. All well and good, however, this afternoon I ended up have an arguement which ended up a £10 bet with the CFI about how this should be logged in the logbook.
One train of thought is that this should be logged as one single flight, with an entry made in the remarks column that 5 full stop circuits were completed.
The other choo choo of thought is that 5 seperate entries should be made in the logbook (and techlog).
More to the point, the logbook is going to be sent to the CAA, so what would be their veiw (tried calling them today but no-one is there till monday). Do they need to see five seperate entries or is one satisfactory?
Further to this, it raises the point as to what is required to satisfy the 5 full stop landings. Do these five night t/o and landings have to be seperate flights? Can you land, stop on the runway, backtrack and then take off again and count that as one of the five? Or if you runway is long enough can you land, stop on the runway, then start rolling and take off?
Now, my understanding of what constitutes flight time is the time from when the aircraft moves under it's own power with the intention of flight until the aircraft has stopped as that operation has concluded, and that is what should be taken as one flight and one flight only.
Tis a minefield indeed. Anyone care to clarify and help me extract a tenner out of my bosses moth eaten wallet.
Now, had a chap do his qualification a few days ago and did an hour or so in the circuit. He called ready, lined up, took off, did a circuit, landed, stopped and then cleared the active five times to satisfy the requirements. All well and good, however, this afternoon I ended up have an arguement which ended up a £10 bet with the CFI about how this should be logged in the logbook.
One train of thought is that this should be logged as one single flight, with an entry made in the remarks column that 5 full stop circuits were completed.
The other choo choo of thought is that 5 seperate entries should be made in the logbook (and techlog).
More to the point, the logbook is going to be sent to the CAA, so what would be their veiw (tried calling them today but no-one is there till monday). Do they need to see five seperate entries or is one satisfactory?
Further to this, it raises the point as to what is required to satisfy the 5 full stop landings. Do these five night t/o and landings have to be seperate flights? Can you land, stop on the runway, backtrack and then take off again and count that as one of the five? Or if you runway is long enough can you land, stop on the runway, then start rolling and take off?
Now, my understanding of what constitutes flight time is the time from when the aircraft moves under it's own power with the intention of flight until the aircraft has stopped as that operation has concluded, and that is what should be taken as one flight and one flight only.
Tis a minefield indeed. Anyone care to clarify and help me extract a tenner out of my bosses moth eaten wallet.
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I'm going with one flight - remarks column to say "5 T/O's & Full stop landings".
I'd also go with - airmanship aside - if the runway is long enough, then stop/go would be acceptable. (land, stop, set off again from same place).
I'd also go with - airmanship aside - if the runway is long enough, then stop/go would be acceptable. (land, stop, set off again from same place).
My vote is for a single flight and stop & go's OK.
I often log up to 14 sectors as a single flight. No room on the line to fit any more airstrips.
Slight caveat: No crew or aircraft change.
The CAA has never blinked when examining my logbooks.
I often log up to 14 sectors as a single flight. No room on the line to fit any more airstrips.
Slight caveat: No crew or aircraft change.
The CAA has never blinked when examining my logbooks.
Gus - a couple of bunny hops and wiggle your ears please. Is Fern Britton still putting her hand up your.........??
The 5 take-offs and landings can be flown as stop-gos, but not touch-and-gos. In other words, given a long enough runway, your chap can land, come to a complete stop, reconfigure for departure, call 'ready for departure' and go off again. The CAA is happy with that. Make sure that the 'remarks' column in chap's log book says "5 night take-offs and full stop landings" and is countersigned by the supervising FI. You do not need 5 seperate log book entries!
I needed to do my 5 t/os and ldgs for a night rating (as it was then) because my miitary night time of several hundred hours wasn't apparently acceptable to the Belgrano. So I took off by day, came back and broke into the circuit at 120KIAS and 100ft (as we were then permitted). Stopped, put the flaps back to Inter and re-trimmed, applied full power and flew a tight 500 ft circuit. Repeated this another 4 times until I'd got my 5 night take-offs and landings - it took about 10 minutes from the first break!
Look Westward - Ch 9 from Stockland Hill and Ch 11 from Caradon!
The 5 take-offs and landings can be flown as stop-gos, but not touch-and-gos. In other words, given a long enough runway, your chap can land, come to a complete stop, reconfigure for departure, call 'ready for departure' and go off again. The CAA is happy with that. Make sure that the 'remarks' column in chap's log book says "5 night take-offs and full stop landings" and is countersigned by the supervising FI. You do not need 5 seperate log book entries!
I needed to do my 5 t/os and ldgs for a night rating (as it was then) because my miitary night time of several hundred hours wasn't apparently acceptable to the Belgrano. So I took off by day, came back and broke into the circuit at 120KIAS and 100ft (as we were then permitted). Stopped, put the flaps back to Inter and re-trimmed, applied full power and flew a tight 500 ft circuit. Repeated this another 4 times until I'd got my 5 night take-offs and landings - it took about 10 minutes from the first break!
Look Westward - Ch 9 from Stockland Hill and Ch 11 from Caradon!
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Hi everyone,
For what it's worth I go with the above, i.e. five take-offs and landings to full stops, logged as one flight but with the remarks column entered with some appropriate description of what was done. I've never had any trouble with the CAA accepting this for my students' night qual. applications. Just one thing though, and without wishing to start the usual bun fight (see multi-engine instruction dangers!), I'm not a great fan of the stop and go (personally). I get my students to backtrack to the threshold after each landing - may as well use all the runway if you've got it and I find they usually need the time anyway. However, I appreciate that this may not always be practical, or necessary, depending upon where you fly from.
Anyway, safe flying, good instructing and a happy new year to everyone in the air.
Regards, GT.
For what it's worth I go with the above, i.e. five take-offs and landings to full stops, logged as one flight but with the remarks column entered with some appropriate description of what was done. I've never had any trouble with the CAA accepting this for my students' night qual. applications. Just one thing though, and without wishing to start the usual bun fight (see multi-engine instruction dangers!), I'm not a great fan of the stop and go (personally). I get my students to backtrack to the threshold after each landing - may as well use all the runway if you've got it and I find they usually need the time anyway. However, I appreciate that this may not always be practical, or necessary, depending upon where you fly from.
Anyway, safe flying, good instructing and a happy new year to everyone in the air.
Regards, GT.
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I've seen it somewhere, was a few years ago, that multiple flights as might be done by paradroppers,etc. can be logged as one flight with no. of departures in remarks column.
Had something to do with duration of flight...less than 30min?
Always worked for night flying details.
Had something to do with duration of flight...less than 30min?
Always worked for night flying details.
