Is there REALLY a shortage of LAE's?
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Shell
I was taught how to rig and troublshoot classic jet aircraft from a geltleman of your age. The fact is my old retired friend that I greatly respect would be lost with the modern jet that he percieved as new in his age. I balance his common sence teachings with the technology of today, they are both valuable to me and hope I can be spoken of with the same respect in the future. I will pass what I can down, but the baby LAME/AMT, I will never make the mistake of disrespecting.
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Maybe not Shell ...
Could you please explain why bringing back the BCARs will "give" a better technicity as i do not see your point ...?
Are you european ?
Thats how things are nowadays in Europe and , Sir , we are in 2011 and you have to live with your time.
Are you still working at 64 years old ?
Could you please explain why bringing back the BCARs will "give" a better technicity as i do not see your point ...?
Are you european ?
Thats how things are nowadays in Europe and , Sir , we are in 2011 and you have to live with your time.
Are you still working at 64 years old ?
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I can never understand why some engineers compare themselves, their respect, their pay and shoe size to pilots; we're not pilots. Is it because we're sometimes within a few feet of each other? That doesn't put us in the same profession. Do you compare yourselves to baggage handlers? Caterers? Cabin crew? I can remember reading one post on here with some numpty engineer asking where he thought engineers should be placed in rank with pilots! Pilot rank goes from captain to first officer; there's no engineer in there, likewise in engineering there's LAE to mechanic; no pilot position in there. We're not in the same profession
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EGT redline
In addition to "today's baby LAEs" perhaps Shell Management should have included LAEs from certain european countries like France who were given free B1 and B2 licenses without passing a single licence examination
That's false, when they started the jar66 B1, etc in France, so in Europe. The people that actually signed logbooks received the credit and received their licence with grandfather rights.
Then you have the people that did aviation schools(bts MEMA in my case), than they went to work for N registered airlines way before the jar stuff was implemented, and that did not receive their B1 with grandfather rights because we where signing of airplanes with a faa a&p, but we did the same aviation aviation schools(level of bts MEMA is higher than a B1 or B2 licence school). As a result is that we have to take some modules now and pay to get our B1,B2.
So Mr, maybe they gave some licences to some people without exams or whatever, but they didn't gave to the right people then
In addition to "today's baby LAEs" perhaps Shell Management should have included LAEs from certain european countries like France who were given free B1 and B2 licenses without passing a single licence examination
That's false, when they started the jar66 B1, etc in France, so in Europe. The people that actually signed logbooks received the credit and received their licence with grandfather rights.
Then you have the people that did aviation schools(bts MEMA in my case), than they went to work for N registered airlines way before the jar stuff was implemented, and that did not receive their B1 with grandfather rights because we where signing of airplanes with a faa a&p, but we did the same aviation aviation schools(level of bts MEMA is higher than a B1 or B2 licence school). As a result is that we have to take some modules now and pay to get our B1,B2.
So Mr, maybe they gave some licences to some people without exams or whatever, but they didn't gave to the right people then
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tournesol is right on that one, pilots have one disadvantage, they have to take the good decisions in the air, while we take em on the ground(plancher des vaches)
cheers,
good weekend to all spanner operators
cheers,
good weekend to all spanner operators
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Yesterday's Technition / Engineer (having half a foot in in myself) may know how to move and fix aircraft more efficiently but the above posters speak of a bygone era. Today's AMT/LAME are restricted by company/CAA mandate to follow the rules and there are a hell of allot moreof them with more oversight. They are not less, just different, smarter in their environment... Probably. Hell you tell me I am an A-hole that must follow the FIM/TSM and have an AMM in hand for a task I have performed 50 times I will adapt and play the game. It slows down progress, effective line maintenance and creates a larger expense. Eventually airlines will require more techs per aircraft, today's Tech plays the smart game career wise in an environment that holds more liability. I hold plenty of tricks in my pocket to bypass the B.S., I use them less and less every day. Change is certain... Can you adapt?
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CEDGZ
You are right with the different grandfather rights!
You did not get the JAR66 licence at that time with your A&P, we had to go a full training for over GBP 100, 000 because we only had an A&P licenses and the British Airways A&P "only" engineers got the licence for their grandfather rights!
Cheers easaman
You are right with the different grandfather rights!
You did not get the JAR66 licence at that time with your A&P, we had to go a full training for over GBP 100, 000 because we only had an A&P licenses and the British Airways A&P "only" engineers got the licence for their grandfather rights!
Cheers easaman
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> grounded 27 wrote "Can you adapt?"
If they would make life easier for many of maintenance people, it would be very helpful!
By what they are demanding, all manuals should be on board of an aircraft, in whatever form!
Imagine, you are alone on an airport and the office with the manuals is 30 minutes away, this creates planned detours, doesn't it?
Cheers easaman
If they would make life easier for many of maintenance people, it would be very helpful!
By what they are demanding, all manuals should be on board of an aircraft, in whatever form!
Imagine, you are alone on an airport and the office with the manuals is 30 minutes away, this creates planned detours, doesn't it?
Cheers easaman
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easaman
Adaptation is refusing your gut instinct to pull a reference out of your black book to sign off a PDIS and travel the the 30 minutes to get the proper reference in paper (if the aircraft does not have amm etc on the aircraft). I am just saying that the airlines make the rules (have large influence over the FAA in my case) if they do not make it easy for us to do our jobs by the book make it their liability, not ours. We are influenced all too often to do everything we can to save a delay, to be a company man, MGT will never back you up if you are not fully prepared and your CAA decides to make a visit.
You can not go wrong by doing the correct thing even if it means scrutiny by MGT. They are backing us into a corner fellas, we do not have to let them. By doing so you force their hand to spend the money to allow us to be more efficient!
Cheers brother easaman!
Just to add that sometimes I will kill a tree before getting called out to an aircraft given a general idea of what has been written in the log hoping that I am prepared only to find that what has been reported to me has nothing to do with the actual problem, sometimes I show up with the correct reference and save the flight.
You can not go wrong by doing the correct thing even if it means scrutiny by MGT. They are backing us into a corner fellas, we do not have to let them. By doing so you force their hand to spend the money to allow us to be more efficient!
Cheers brother easaman!
Just to add that sometimes I will kill a tree before getting called out to an aircraft given a general idea of what has been written in the log hoping that I am prepared only to find that what has been reported to me has nothing to do with the actual problem, sometimes I show up with the correct reference and save the flight.
Last edited by grounded27; 27th Nov 2011 at 20:13.
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Easaman, BA cannot hand out licences the CAA does. I think you are getting confused that they were issued B1 company codes even though the A+P covers no electrics.
I hope the suggestion of Manuals inside the flight deck brings with it a padlock!
I hate Pilots trying to catch you out with technical when you walk on to the Flight deck.
Its pretty blatant the defect has been discussed extensively throughout the flight having given an FCOM system refresher course to each other during the sector!
A TSM/FIM in there would be a nightmare.
I hope the suggestion of Manuals inside the flight deck brings with it a padlock!
I hate Pilots trying to catch you out with technical when you walk on to the Flight deck.
Its pretty blatant the defect has been discussed extensively throughout the flight having given an FCOM system refresher course to each other during the sector!
A TSM/FIM in there would be a nightmare.
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Bringing BCAR's back won't really help, what we are lacking is the outflow we used to get from the RAF etc, it is ok training LAE's from scratch, but they lack the life and engineering experiences a lot of the ex service personnel coming into civilian aviation provided as they moved to doing their licences, this has almost dried up with the shrinkage in the military, so the percentage has now gone the other way from a higher amount of experienced personnel going for their licences to a greater number of straight from training engineers.
Well that's how I see it.
Well that's how I see it.
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Beeline
>Easaman, BA cannot hand out licences the CAA does. I think you are getting confused that they were issued B1 company codes even though the A+P covers no electrics.
I am not getting confused!
There was a fellow of mine in the nineties working both for US-Carriers with our A&P and both of us were working European Airliners as contractors with our A&P.
He went to BA and I stayed with the US-Carrier.
We lost our Airwortyness Release Autority, when the JAR-66 came up and I was sent to Oxford for five month with two other fellows to get the licence.
The 5 month B&B + the training + exam fees + travelling was a huge sum!
My fellow got some years later the same licence with his A&P by working for BA.
As you know A&C's when they converted to JAR-66 got restrictions 1 & 9 like the BA A&P!!!
The funny thing is that we could change Batteries/Generators before the conversion and after the conversion not any more!
Another funny thing is that we both were electicians in our first trade,
with having restrictions on electrics & avionics in the first JAR-66 licence.
Cheers
easaman
>Easaman, BA cannot hand out licences the CAA does. I think you are getting confused that they were issued B1 company codes even though the A+P covers no electrics.
I am not getting confused!
There was a fellow of mine in the nineties working both for US-Carriers with our A&P and both of us were working European Airliners as contractors with our A&P.
He went to BA and I stayed with the US-Carrier.
We lost our Airwortyness Release Autority, when the JAR-66 came up and I was sent to Oxford for five month with two other fellows to get the licence.
The 5 month B&B + the training + exam fees + travelling was a huge sum!
My fellow got some years later the same licence with his A&P by working for BA.
As you know A&C's when they converted to JAR-66 got restrictions 1 & 9 like the BA A&P!!!
The funny thing is that we could change Batteries/Generators before the conversion and after the conversion not any more!
Another funny thing is that we both were electicians in our first trade,
with having restrictions on electrics & avionics in the first JAR-66 licence.
Cheers
easaman
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I hope the suggestion of Manuals inside the flight deck brings with it a padlock!
I hate Pilots trying to catch you out with technical when you walk on to the Flight deck.
Its pretty blatant the defect has been discussed extensively throughout the flight having given an FCOM system refresher course to each other during the sector!
A TSM/FIM in there would be a nightmare.
it's already on board, our 777's have the fim and accessible to the pilots on their efb cdu(fancy tactil touch screen) and md11 fim books are on board
having a pilot that look at these fim's means that he is interested in what he's doing and maybe he will give some better informations on his discrepancy, and not something like "bleed air 1 off" or "ap ctr disconnect", etc
I hate Pilots trying to catch you out with technical when you walk on to the Flight deck.
Its pretty blatant the defect has been discussed extensively throughout the flight having given an FCOM system refresher course to each other during the sector!
A TSM/FIM in there would be a nightmare.
it's already on board, our 777's have the fim and accessible to the pilots on their efb cdu(fancy tactil touch screen) and md11 fim books are on board
having a pilot that look at these fim's means that he is interested in what he's doing and maybe he will give some better informations on his discrepancy, and not something like "bleed air 1 off" or "ap ctr disconnect", etc
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I believe pilots should have technical knowledge as long as it does not interfere with their duties as pilots. This knowledge should be geared to help them describe their discrepancies, really some 34 and 22 basic training would really help, mabe 23 as well. Very simple troubleshooting info to give us the data to help better define a problem. It is not really very technical just to help a pilot create a PDIS that is more defined. It would reduce the erronous number of PDIS that we often CND. Help them understand what the aircraft they are flying is actually capable of doing.
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I do not see a problem when pilots are looking up manual stuff!
This makes us raising our standard level of maintenance!
Cheers easaman
PS: As there are good and better pilots, there are also good and better maintenance people...
This makes us raising our standard level of maintenance!
Cheers easaman
PS: As there are good and better pilots, there are also good and better maintenance people...
Thought police antagonist
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" We're not in the same profession"
I have to politely disagree with that comment because actually, we are..it's called aviation and flight safety and the word you are looking for is symbiosis...
I have to agree with Nutloose's post however as the transition from mil ( Army, Navy and RAF ) was a natural progression which I, and many others followed. The airlines were an obvious choice, but so, for many, was "the circuit".
However, the focus on here regarding the shortage of engineers, is primarily it seems with regard to the airlines.
Which begs the question, as to how other sectors are coping ( and will cope in the future ) for example Biz-jets, G/A and vintage aircraft, the last two requiring a different range of skill sets in contrast to those required for the "Airboeing" fleets.
G/A has always been notorious for poor pay and conditions and I would suspect ( please feel free to prove me wrong however ) that the shortage will be more acute and imminent than in the airlines here.
I have to politely disagree with that comment because actually, we are..it's called aviation and flight safety and the word you are looking for is symbiosis...
I have to agree with Nutloose's post however
as the transition from mil ( Army, Navy and RAF ) was a natural progression which I, and many others followed. The airlines were an obvious choice, but so, for many, was "the circuit".However, the focus on here regarding the shortage of engineers, is primarily it seems with regard to the airlines.
Which begs the question, as to how other sectors are coping ( and will cope in the future ) for example Biz-jets, G/A and vintage aircraft, the last two requiring a different range of skill sets in contrast to those required for the "Airboeing" fleets.
G/A has always been notorious for poor pay and conditions and I would suspect ( please feel free to prove me wrong however ) that the shortage will be more acute and imminent than in the airlines here.
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Which begs the question, as to how other sectors are coping ( and will cope in the future ) for example Biz-jets, G/A and vintage aircraft, the last two requiring a different range of skill sets in contrast to those required for the "Airboeing" fleets.
Define skill sets, have done Military, Fighters, Helicopters, Biz-jets, Airliners, Warbirds and do G/A.... Cannot see a lot of difference in the skill set between any of them, if anything G/A requires a greater skill set.