Aero graduate
Join Date: Apr 2005
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For my year in industry i was lucky on the pay scale (maybe not on the job quality!) I was paid 17k, plus accomodation, and travel to the uk once a month ( i lived abroad) downside was that i worked from 8am - 8/9pm and constantly on duty.
As for my pay now increased - im on 18k with no benefits whatsoever. When i challenged this (as now i am qualified with a degree, surely im worth more than 1k more a year!) I was told i didnt have the experience in the field that i was going to be working in. So far in the month of so i have been here there is little to challenge me. I know that life shouldnt be all about the money, but when you have very little of it, all of a sudden it does!
If i could have afforded not to have a job and thought about what i wanted to do and the career path i wanted to take then that would have been my option - unfortunately my financial position doesnt afford me that luxury.
As for my pay now increased - im on 18k with no benefits whatsoever. When i challenged this (as now i am qualified with a degree, surely im worth more than 1k more a year!) I was told i didnt have the experience in the field that i was going to be working in. So far in the month of so i have been here there is little to challenge me. I know that life shouldnt be all about the money, but when you have very little of it, all of a sudden it does!
If i could have afforded not to have a job and thought about what i wanted to do and the career path i wanted to take then that would have been my option - unfortunately my financial position doesnt afford me that luxury.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I saw a graduate magazine in my university careers office a few months ago and off the top of my head i believe that the national average starting salary for graduate engineers is approximately 20-21K. Obviously that will be subject to regional variations etc. YThe magazine said you can add an extra 1K per year onto that figure if you have a PhD apparently. Although as portsharbourflyer has already stated if you are being recruited onto a graduate scheme or into a standard graduate position don't expect to get anymore than anyone else for your PhD. At the end of the day its a recruiters market and if you don't want to take the low-paid job to get your foot in the door somebody else coming behind you probably will. The only sad thing about that is that alot of good people are doing aerospace degrees etc. and then going off into other higher paid sectors such as finance.
I agree with Genghis work experience is vital! If you are doing a PhD which involves extensive wind tunnel testing or CFD code development/ CFD commercial package use then you can expect that to stand you in good stead for going into industry too, so long as you don't mind going into the industrial research sector.
I agree with Genghis work experience is vital! If you are doing a PhD which involves extensive wind tunnel testing or CFD code development/ CFD commercial package use then you can expect that to stand you in good stead for going into industry too, so long as you don't mind going into the industrial research sector.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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This post is amazing me. Back of Flight Magazine (e.g. 15-21 Aug 06) always going on about lack of engineers yet it seems many unemployed gradutes about and with BAE trying to leave Airbus the future does look bleak for British aviation. I left working in Europe (UK & Ireland) due to low pay and I see on this tread the starting salaries have practically not moved since I left UK 10 years ago (so considering inflation, starting salaries have gone down in real terms). Also I get regular updates on job offers and to be honest I earn more outside the UK (permanent job, not a contract so tax and all is paid 
)before I take into account higher cost of living in the UK.
I thank Kingston Uni for my year out, the experience got me my first job (pay is not really an issue for your year experience, all I got was 100F a week working in Bordeaux, had just enough for beer and parties 
but the experience started my career and in addition an appreciation for food, wine etc so thanks France, so Kingston gave me a degree and a lifestyle 
)
At present I take on one student a year from the local uni (I remember the efforts I went through, so started this scheme two years ago and instead of getting a temp for basic office work, I get a aero eng student. So it was not a fancy proposal to the board etc and is not formal but its a start) and I am happy to say it gave one engineering student a kick start to a good career at a local airline.
If any other engineers looking, they should also give back to students (tell the accounts people it's cheap labour and at least you have a better chance of getting an eager person that some grumy temp, even if it only for scanning in documents or creating jobcards).
)before I take into account higher cost of living in the UK. but the experience started my career and in addition an appreciation for food, wine etc so thanks France, so Kingston gave me a degree and a lifestyle )At present I take on one student a year from the local uni (I remember the efforts I went through, so started this scheme two years ago and instead of getting a temp for basic office work, I get a aero eng student. So it was not a fancy proposal to the board etc and is not formal but its a start) and I am happy to say it gave one engineering student a kick start to a good career at a local airline.
If any other engineers looking, they should also give back to students (tell the accounts people it's cheap labour and at least you have a better chance of getting an eager person that some grumy temp, even if it only for scanning in documents or creating jobcards).
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: BRISTOL!
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Thanks for the, people keep telling me that Brunel is more an Engineering Uni than and Aero Eng one, so what are the top Aero Uni's around?
I am having issues with my C1 Medical, so i am not sure if i can be a pilot, if i cant i want to be involved with aviation, i am interested in Design and Planning. I really have no idea what degree would suite me the best, i have asked many people, and have asked a few times on here, but i am still as confused as ever.
I am going to Brunel to do a FOE course as i never did a direct science or maths A'level and they wont take me even though i have good A levels in other subjects. So in a few months time i am going to be applying again for a BEng or MEng course at Brunel or another Uni, i am really after some info on where the best regarded Aero eng courses are, and what course would suite me the best out of the different Aero eng courses offered?
GTE seems to have some good knowledge on this industry, i would really value to good information and it is much appreciated and before any one says so, i have look through this forum board but cant really find what i am looking for... Thanks
I am having issues with my C1 Medical, so i am not sure if i can be a pilot, if i cant i want to be involved with aviation, i am interested in Design and Planning. I really have no idea what degree would suite me the best, i have asked many people, and have asked a few times on here, but i am still as confused as ever.
I am going to Brunel to do a FOE course as i never did a direct science or maths A'level and they wont take me even though i have good A levels in other subjects. So in a few months time i am going to be applying again for a BEng or MEng course at Brunel or another Uni, i am really after some info on where the best regarded Aero eng courses are, and what course would suite me the best out of the different Aero eng courses offered?
GTE seems to have some good knowledge on this industry, i would really value to good information and it is much appreciated and before any one says so, i have look through this forum board but cant really find what i am looking for... Thanks
Educated Hillbilly
Planecrazy, don't threat Brunel has a good reputation.
When I did my aeronautical degree alot of the modules were common with the automotive group. First years of most aeronautical degrees will concentrate on core engineering subjects (materials, engineering mathemathics, stress, fluid dynamics,drawing) you may not actually study anything in hte first year that is aircraft specific, even the second year was still 70/30 split between generic mechanical engineeering and aircraft specific subjects. In the final year alot of the modules will be optional, hence I seleceted subjects that were aircraft specific (eg; Flight Dynamics), however it would still have been possible to select the majority of modules that were common with automotive. My point is an aeronautical engineering degree is essentially a mechanical engineering degree, so why you may be interested in aircraft you also need as much interest in core mechanical engineering to match in order to suceed in aero.
On the subject of pay, contracting is normally the only way to make decent money in engineering, but you will need a few years experience to be able to contract. So we all had to put up with "permy" salaries for a while.
While I am generally optimistic about the industry, the latest threat to the UK is the advent of low cost design / stress contract organisations based in India.
One bit of advice is make sure your aero degree includes the flight test week in the Cranfield NFLC, that is the highlight of any aero degree.
When I did my aeronautical degree alot of the modules were common with the automotive group. First years of most aeronautical degrees will concentrate on core engineering subjects (materials, engineering mathemathics, stress, fluid dynamics,drawing) you may not actually study anything in hte first year that is aircraft specific, even the second year was still 70/30 split between generic mechanical engineeering and aircraft specific subjects. In the final year alot of the modules will be optional, hence I seleceted subjects that were aircraft specific (eg; Flight Dynamics), however it would still have been possible to select the majority of modules that were common with automotive. My point is an aeronautical engineering degree is essentially a mechanical engineering degree, so why you may be interested in aircraft you also need as much interest in core mechanical engineering to match in order to suceed in aero.
On the subject of pay, contracting is normally the only way to make decent money in engineering, but you will need a few years experience to be able to contract. So we all had to put up with "permy" salaries for a while.
While I am generally optimistic about the industry, the latest threat to the UK is the advent of low cost design / stress contract organisations based in India.
One bit of advice is make sure your aero degree includes the flight test week in the Cranfield NFLC, that is the highlight of any aero degree.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 1st Sep 2006 at 21:44.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Thanks for the reply, is an Aeronautical degree more suited to deisign or project management that Aerospace Degree? Or even Aerospace with Mechanical Engineering? Because i am going an Foundation year i have a little time to choose the MEng course i will be doing, think i will stick it out with Brunel, they seem good and reputable. Is there a list of top aero eng courses? or who are regarded as the best for Aero eng out of the UK Unis?
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I have applied to a number of graduate schemes (with Airbus, BAE Systems, Qinetiq, Rolls Royce) since graduating but with no success. I have been working in jobs that are not related to my degree and certainly don’t require my uni education. My career isn’t going anywhere at the moment, and I feel I need to do something drastic now before it is too late.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Polkm,
Don't let it screw you up, whatever happens. Better days will come, although they may not be in the aerospace industry. It's not worth the grey hairs. We should all have been studying ferret sexing!
N
Don't let it screw you up, whatever happens. Better days will come, although they may not be in the aerospace industry. It's not worth the grey hairs. We should all have been studying ferret sexing!
N
Considerably Bemused Wannabe
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Hi Polkm,
Sorry to hear about your situation. Have you thought about a postgrad degree? Whilst doing my undergrad BEng in Electrical/Electronic Engineering, I got to mix with alot of PhD research guys in my department who were sponsored by various Aero companies. BAE, Airbus, Goodrich to name a few. Having the ambition to work in aerospace myself and not coming from an Aero background, my industrially sponsored CASE PhD has open many doors that weren’t open to me as both a Bachelors graduate, and non-aero graduate.
Why not have a look at an industrial CASE PhD or EngD which is sponsored by an aero company? You’ll work for 3 years on the cutting edge of novel technology, both at the academic institute and the sponsoring company.
I’m half way through mine with BAE/Airbus and it’s been fascinating so far.
If you’re interested, www.jobs.ac.uk is a great place to start.
Good luck matey.
Sorry to hear about your situation. Have you thought about a postgrad degree? Whilst doing my undergrad BEng in Electrical/Electronic Engineering, I got to mix with alot of PhD research guys in my department who were sponsored by various Aero companies. BAE, Airbus, Goodrich to name a few. Having the ambition to work in aerospace myself and not coming from an Aero background, my industrially sponsored CASE PhD has open many doors that weren’t open to me as both a Bachelors graduate, and non-aero graduate.
Why not have a look at an industrial CASE PhD or EngD which is sponsored by an aero company? You’ll work for 3 years on the cutting edge of novel technology, both at the academic institute and the sponsoring company.
I’m half way through mine with BAE/Airbus and it’s been fascinating so far.
If you’re interested, www.jobs.ac.uk is a great place to start.
Good luck matey.
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Scruggs
Yes I have thought about a postgrad deg but whilst it may open many doors, it can equally keep doors locked if you do not have a 'useful' phd. Most phds are sponsored anyway so it is not so much the money that concerns me, it is the lack of experience as a fresh graduate. Having said that, i know I now know how important a summer placement while at uni is so important. I am even finding it difficult to find unpaid work experience in the aero industry
Cheers for the info, much appreciated
Polkm
Like your login btw
Yes I have thought about a postgrad deg but whilst it may open many doors, it can equally keep doors locked if you do not have a 'useful' phd. Most phds are sponsored anyway so it is not so much the money that concerns me, it is the lack of experience as a fresh graduate. Having said that, i know I now know how important a summer placement while at uni is so important. I am even finding it difficult to find unpaid work experience in the aero industry
Cheers for the info, much appreciated
Polkm
Like your login btw
Nowadays few people will look at you for a PhD without an MSc first anyway, unless you have lots of relevant industrial experience instead.
But, a relevant MSc to the area you'd like to work in can certainly open a lot of doors.
Frankly PhDs! - looks great on your business card, makes it possible to work in a university, little bit of street cred, but not something to do as a career-enhancer otherwise. I did mine because I wanted to do the research, and I don't think that there's another good reason unless you desperately want to be a university lecturer.
That said, the going rate for a PhD studentship at the moment is about £12,500 tax-free, which although hardly generous, isn't too bad, particularly since you can still live like a student.
G
But, a relevant MSc to the area you'd like to work in can certainly open a lot of doors.
Frankly PhDs! - looks great on your business card, makes it possible to work in a university, little bit of street cred, but not something to do as a career-enhancer otherwise. I did mine because I wanted to do the research, and I don't think that there's another good reason unless you desperately want to be a university lecturer.
That said, the going rate for a PhD studentship at the moment is about £12,500 tax-free, which although hardly generous, isn't too bad, particularly since you can still live like a student.
G
Considerably Bemused Wannabe
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No worries Polkm.
Just to follow up......
The standard tax-free rate for a CASE PhD is as follows:
Year 1: £15,000
Year 2: £15,300
Year 3: £15,600
Basically if you're not on a CASE/Industrial PhD, subtract 3K off each of the wages stated above. And it's even better for an EngD.
Plus I get to do a bit of undergraduate lab demonstrating at £13.00 p/h. Not bad really. When I talk to mates who have gone into industry, most comment on what a good salary it is considering we are still classed as students. I generally pick up around £1400 a month, which covers my rent, food and beer!
The majority of companies I have already spoken with about future employment, including a few well known Aero companies, say that they see PhD research as "industrial experience". So when I graduate, I'll have +3 years industrial experience. I wouldn't have done a PhD otherwise.
What amazed me was that within around 6 months of starting I had two companies (both UK aero) asking me to get in touch in 2008 for a job, and that's excluding my sponsors. That was something I never expected.
But as G pointed out, you really have to want to do the research. Being in it for the Dr title is the wrong reason to be in it, and believe me, I’ve met a few of these title chasers in the past!
Most importantly….you can indeed live the student life. Today I felt like a lie in – so I had one. I also felt like leaving early to go for a few beers with the boys, so I did
I'll just make up for it tomorrow
All the best Polkm. Keep us updated.
Just to follow up......
The standard tax-free rate for a CASE PhD is as follows:
Year 1: £15,000
Year 2: £15,300
Year 3: £15,600
Basically if you're not on a CASE/Industrial PhD, subtract 3K off each of the wages stated above. And it's even better for an EngD.
Plus I get to do a bit of undergraduate lab demonstrating at £13.00 p/h. Not bad really. When I talk to mates who have gone into industry, most comment on what a good salary it is considering we are still classed as students. I generally pick up around £1400 a month, which covers my rent, food and beer!
The majority of companies I have already spoken with about future employment, including a few well known Aero companies, say that they see PhD research as "industrial experience". So when I graduate, I'll have +3 years industrial experience. I wouldn't have done a PhD otherwise.
What amazed me was that within around 6 months of starting I had two companies (both UK aero) asking me to get in touch in 2008 for a job, and that's excluding my sponsors. That was something I never expected.
But as G pointed out, you really have to want to do the research. Being in it for the Dr title is the wrong reason to be in it, and believe me, I’ve met a few of these title chasers in the past!
Most importantly….you can indeed live the student life. Today I felt like a lie in – so I had one. I also felt like leaving early to go for a few beers with the boys, so I did
I'll just make up for it tomorrow
All the best Polkm. Keep us updated.
Educated Hillbilly
Hi Everyone,
I forgot to mention that after graduation I actually worked for six months in a general engineering firm, then another year in a firm doing defence projects which had aspects of aerospace work but were mostly based around ground support equipment, so I had a year and half exeprience in "general" (apologises for the vague term) engineering before I started working for a firm that specialised in aerospace projects. In other words look to gain experience in any engineering sector, when I first posted on this thread the industry was indeed short of engineers, recent developments means things are perhaps not quite so good now, but I still personally think experience in industry is more useful than a PHD, even if it is designing washing machines or something. Approach local universities to see if they have any regional gradaute development schemes going, these used to involve doing six monthz "post gradaute" work experience with a local firm combined with a short research project in conjunction with the university.
I forgot to mention that after graduation I actually worked for six months in a general engineering firm, then another year in a firm doing defence projects which had aspects of aerospace work but were mostly based around ground support equipment, so I had a year and half exeprience in "general" (apologises for the vague term) engineering before I started working for a firm that specialised in aerospace projects. In other words look to gain experience in any engineering sector, when I first posted on this thread the industry was indeed short of engineers, recent developments means things are perhaps not quite so good now, but I still personally think experience in industry is more useful than a PHD, even if it is designing washing machines or something. Approach local universities to see if they have any regional gradaute development schemes going, these used to involve doing six monthz "post gradaute" work experience with a local firm combined with a short research project in conjunction with the university.
Considerably Bemused Wannabe
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That all depends on what kind of work you're looking to go into. The reason I chose a PhD was because I wanted to work ideally in R&D. Granted, you can do this as a graduate too, but these opportunities I found were/are very few and far between. If I wanted to work as a front-line aircraft engineer for example, then obviously a PhD isn’t the way to go.
As for what companies look for specifically in their R&D people, this must vary from company to company. We get a lot of companies, not just aero, frequently visiting our group to try and recruit guys who are about to complete their PhDs, which does illustrate that some companies do appreciate the value of a research degree. Other companies like to train in-house, and run specific R&D graduate schemes. But as I said, these are thin on the ground.
But, I do believe that being industrially sponsored makes a huge difference. That way, you get to work along side your industrial counterparts on an industrial project. We have some non-sponsored students and their projects appear to lack the drive and focus that the sponsored projects seems to have.
Anyway, each to their own. Hopefully my research will lead me to the job I want. Although, as I said in another post, a mate of mine who has just finished his has been offered a job in London as an investment banker, starting on £120K a year + bonuses. Now that sounds awfully tempting
As for what companies look for specifically in their R&D people, this must vary from company to company. We get a lot of companies, not just aero, frequently visiting our group to try and recruit guys who are about to complete their PhDs, which does illustrate that some companies do appreciate the value of a research degree. Other companies like to train in-house, and run specific R&D graduate schemes. But as I said, these are thin on the ground.
But, I do believe that being industrially sponsored makes a huge difference. That way, you get to work along side your industrial counterparts on an industrial project. We have some non-sponsored students and their projects appear to lack the drive and focus that the sponsored projects seems to have.
Anyway, each to their own. Hopefully my research will lead me to the job I want. Although, as I said in another post, a mate of mine who has just finished his has been offered a job in London as an investment banker, starting on £120K a year + bonuses. Now that sounds awfully tempting
Last edited by scruggs; 10th Mar 2007 at 18:42. Reason: My spellllllingg is crap!
