Inter check actioned - satis
Guest
Posts: n/a
Inter check actioned - satis
So many inspections , so little time.
Not to worry , Keith 'King of the Grabbers' can do the known problem areas with his welding goggles as a viewing aid in return for a hundred hours O/T and he's not even got cover.
That's not a problem as Sid ' The unsrupulous shift manager' will clear the cards later with his trusty ,well worn , communal stamp , conveniently left in the unlocked desk drawer for the other Masonic lodge members to abuse. It just needs another re-ink before the dirty deed is done.
Now it's last day of the hangar check , all but a few defects complete , routine actioned , function & leak checks finished , but hang on , where did all these additional job cards come from ?
Lucky there's Sid's stamp to hand.
Fact or fiction you decide but there's one thing remaining that bothers me .
In a safety dependant industry such as this , is it ethical to have a manager who although a full CRS holder & who's role is essentially an admin one is allowed continued use of his/hers stamp for other than signing the CMR and who's pay structure is performance related?
Conflict of interest, of course not!
So what should you do in a senario such as above , do you ?
A) Commit the ultimate sin by spilling the beans , assuming you can prove the allegation & suffer the retribution for your whistle blowing.
or
B) Turn a blind eye & carry on as usual because after all he/she is one of us , a licenced engineer & if you s##t on them your s######g on the rest of us.
or
C) Do the same as they do & succumb to peer pressure because it must be the norm if you want to get the a/c out on time .
AC.
[This message has been edited by Ali Crom (edited 16 February 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ali Crom (edited 18 February 2001).]
Not to worry , Keith 'King of the Grabbers' can do the known problem areas with his welding goggles as a viewing aid in return for a hundred hours O/T and he's not even got cover.
That's not a problem as Sid ' The unsrupulous shift manager' will clear the cards later with his trusty ,well worn , communal stamp , conveniently left in the unlocked desk drawer for the other Masonic lodge members to abuse. It just needs another re-ink before the dirty deed is done.
Now it's last day of the hangar check , all but a few defects complete , routine actioned , function & leak checks finished , but hang on , where did all these additional job cards come from ?
Lucky there's Sid's stamp to hand.
Fact or fiction you decide but there's one thing remaining that bothers me .
In a safety dependant industry such as this , is it ethical to have a manager who although a full CRS holder & who's role is essentially an admin one is allowed continued use of his/hers stamp for other than signing the CMR and who's pay structure is performance related?
Conflict of interest, of course not!
So what should you do in a senario such as above , do you ?
A) Commit the ultimate sin by spilling the beans , assuming you can prove the allegation & suffer the retribution for your whistle blowing.
or
B) Turn a blind eye & carry on as usual because after all he/she is one of us , a licenced engineer & if you s##t on them your s######g on the rest of us.
or
C) Do the same as they do & succumb to peer pressure because it must be the norm if you want to get the a/c out on time .
AC.
[This message has been edited by Ali Crom (edited 16 February 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ali Crom (edited 18 February 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Reminds me of the time, having just left The Air Force, working for a company long gone. A couple of ageing Viscounts had to depart that night for an African buyer. Runway was to close at 2200hrs. I saw the Crew Chief with a wad of job cards stamping like crazy. I thought all the inspection had been completed, on checking the cards later, none had been looked at, just stamped off to get he aircraft out on time.......FACT.....Still happens....who knows??
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yes it still goes on, supervision with a roller stamp boshing off stuff that hasn't been properly inspected. But that is all I am prepared to say on the subject.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the bean counters have won. The very people who depend on us to keep them in clover recon that maintenance can be done cheaper, quicker and more efficiently elsewhere, and we had better jolly well do our job faster, work anti social shifts that are slowly killing us, the aircraft must go out of the door on time and we must show that we are competative in a global market place or we will all be out of a job. Sound familiar?
Ladies and Gentlemen, the bean counters have won. The very people who depend on us to keep them in clover recon that maintenance can be done cheaper, quicker and more efficiently elsewhere, and we had better jolly well do our job faster, work anti social shifts that are slowly killing us, the aircraft must go out of the door on time and we must show that we are competative in a global market place or we will all be out of a job. Sound familiar?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ali, it's time to be brave. Your allegations should (must) be reported! This falls into the classification of a practice likely to endanger an aircraft or its occupants. Therefore, you MUST raise an MOR - it is MANDATORY. Theoretically, you have no choice.
Back in the real world, a CHIRP should be the choice if you are squiffy. Or, as Spanners suggests, a chat with the local office.
I have trouble understanding why an engineer would seek to jeopardise the safety of an aircraft, and his career, for the sake of commercial pressure.
It is time to act.
Back in the real world, a CHIRP should be the choice if you are squiffy. Or, as Spanners suggests, a chat with the local office.
I have trouble understanding why an engineer would seek to jeopardise the safety of an aircraft, and his career, for the sake of commercial pressure.
It is time to act.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Now let me work that one out !
(Number of aircraft in fleet) X (number of maintenance inputs per year) X (length of time in service) = a sh#t load of MOR's
You'll have to get weasel to give you a hand to fill them all out!
Do you remember the time when a complete rack of uncertified job cards was found in an overhead locker 3 days after the check was completed and aircraft in service ?
------------------
Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread
[This message has been edited by Golden Rivet (edited 17 February 2001).]
(Number of aircraft in fleet) X (number of maintenance inputs per year) X (length of time in service) = a sh#t load of MOR's
You'll have to get weasel to give you a hand to fill them all out!
Do you remember the time when a complete rack of uncertified job cards was found in an overhead locker 3 days after the check was completed and aircraft in service ?
------------------
Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread
[This message has been edited by Golden Rivet (edited 17 February 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is, I believe, one of the many minefields of the aviation industry. At the end of the day, it HAS to be down to the individual.
YOU do not HAVE to sign for anything you are not happy with.
I too know an engineer who would stamp anything you put infront of him.
In this industry, the pressure is really on, when you have a customer shouting down your ear about getting their aircraft out which is now 2 days over time, there are some decisions which have to be made and I believe should be made from an experienced point of view.
Personally I would not sign for ANYTHING that I was not completely happy with, and if there is another engineer who will, fine, they can sign, at least then it isn't my career and life that is one the line if, God forbid, anything were to happen.
Maybe I am not taking the right point of view and I am being selfish, but you have to look out for No. 1 as no-one else will.
As far as telling someone goes, I think that you would be in a very dodgy situation. The person holding that authority has been given it for a reason, they didn't just get it out of a Cornflake box! Whether you are licensed or not, the desicions they are making may be made through knowledge and experience. Be careful. You have to remember that if all goes wrong he is going to be in BIG trouble, and depending on the extent, could be in the position of facing a prison sentance, and NEVER working in Aviation again.
Keep your mind clear, use YOUR licence and authority wisely and you cannot go wrong.
Fly safe and remember:-
Some days you are the statue and some days you are the Pigeon.
[This message has been edited by HeliEng (edited 17 February 2001).]
YOU do not HAVE to sign for anything you are not happy with.
I too know an engineer who would stamp anything you put infront of him.
In this industry, the pressure is really on, when you have a customer shouting down your ear about getting their aircraft out which is now 2 days over time, there are some decisions which have to be made and I believe should be made from an experienced point of view.
Personally I would not sign for ANYTHING that I was not completely happy with, and if there is another engineer who will, fine, they can sign, at least then it isn't my career and life that is one the line if, God forbid, anything were to happen.
Maybe I am not taking the right point of view and I am being selfish, but you have to look out for No. 1 as no-one else will.
As far as telling someone goes, I think that you would be in a very dodgy situation. The person holding that authority has been given it for a reason, they didn't just get it out of a Cornflake box! Whether you are licensed or not, the desicions they are making may be made through knowledge and experience. Be careful. You have to remember that if all goes wrong he is going to be in BIG trouble, and depending on the extent, could be in the position of facing a prison sentance, and NEVER working in Aviation again.
Keep your mind clear, use YOUR licence and authority wisely and you cannot go wrong.
Fly safe and remember:-
Some days you are the statue and some days you are the Pigeon.
[This message has been edited by HeliEng (edited 17 February 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
let the b******D hang himself if he likes, but let the rest of us keep our standards!!!!!
sloppy engineering is costing us MONEY cos some of us do not take a stand on unsafe practices.
the more of us that take a stand on unsafe or unworked signings/stampings, the more d**kh**ds we can get get kicked out...
safty first = job safety
sloppy engineering is costing us MONEY cos some of us do not take a stand on unsafe practices.
the more of us that take a stand on unsafe or unworked signings/stampings, the more d**kh**ds we can get get kicked out...
safty first = job safety
Guest
Posts: n/a
Contacted CAA on two occasions, once to report a private owner flying a helicopter around with a main gearbox problem.
Response and this is a quote, "if he flies it past the window we might do something about it".
Reported a commercial operator who was falsifying techlog hours 25 missing in a 50
hour period!!!!!!!!
Well if it's more than three months ago we wont take action. The fact that the aircraft were still flying public transport didn't seem to bother them.
Don't waste your time talking to the disinterested.
Response and this is a quote, "if he flies it past the window we might do something about it".
Reported a commercial operator who was falsifying techlog hours 25 missing in a 50
hour period!!!!!!!!
Well if it's more than three months ago we wont take action. The fact that the aircraft were still flying public transport didn't seem to bother them.
Don't waste your time talking to the disinterested.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ali-Crom...Fact or fiction you ask? The only fiction here is that you've changed the names!The sorry state of affairs is that the regulatory authorities are failing to regulate. If that's not bad enough,they have now, in response to the worldwide shortage of engineers, lowered the standards to allow limited CRS authorisations to be issued to anyone capable of using a photocopier, all controlled by the maintenance organisations themselves. They charge you a fee to hold a licence,in return for which you are expected to police your own employer's violations, which could result in you losing your job for blowing the whistle.Little wonder nobody is reporting what goes on. Presumeably the regulatory authorities work on the principle that no news is good news. Unfortunately we are going to have to suffer the fate of the railway industry before we will see any improvement.I just hope the good guys amongst us can weather the storm ahead.Nice to see you all putting the message across in this post.
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Always remember, the licence doesn't give you authority to certify a job so much as the authority to refuse certification. Stamping things off without checking that the job is done properly doesn't make you an LAE, even my 5 year old nephew can manage to do that.
Though I'm no longer certifying I still regard my licence as a qualification to withold certification until I'm satisfied that the job is complete and the aircraft airworthy. Any fool can stamp a job off, but I have pride in my work. There are those who think that it is 'macho' to sign everything off regardless. They are worthy only of our contempt. While they may regard themselves as "Company Men" they are actually imposing additional costs and bigger delays later, when the shoddy or uncompleted work fails and the aircraft suffers extended down time for repairs. Or worse.
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Though I'm no longer certifying I still regard my licence as a qualification to withold certification until I'm satisfied that the job is complete and the aircraft airworthy. Any fool can stamp a job off, but I have pride in my work. There are those who think that it is 'macho' to sign everything off regardless. They are worthy only of our contempt. While they may regard themselves as "Company Men" they are actually imposing additional costs and bigger delays later, when the shoddy or uncompleted work fails and the aircraft suffers extended down time for repairs. Or worse.
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is not something i come across in my everyday work, but i have seen tendensies from time to time in less serious organizations. Something that i think we should be aware of is that not all people think and act the same way as ourselves. The characters that we sometimes think just exist on a movie screen as a matter of fact also live beside us in real life. People with disturbances of literally psychopathic nature have a tendency to end up in management positions as the society today is sometimes awarding the qualities that comes with that kind of nature. Paranoia and theories of conspiracy, you might say, but both me and other colleagues have met people in these positions that, besides from taking the kind of descisions that you mention, also lack any kind of ability to show sympathy for other people. I hope to god it stays with just a couple of these cases and that it is not something style-forming for the society.
Life is a pitch, then you dive.
------------------
737
Life is a pitch, then you dive.
------------------
737
Guest
Posts: n/a
Where I used to work, a manager would stamp job cards to give the impression the check was running better than it actually was.
Example....he stamped elevator function check cards on day one of the check.
A little worrying because the elevators and horizontal stab were removed during the check.
His excuse was "someone will raise a job card for this anyway"
Eventually someone decided enough was enough and called in the CAA (give the man a medal)
Did the manager lose his job? NO he still works for the same company, in the same job!
He should of lost his job without question.
On the other hand there was a witch hunt to find the bloke that called the CAA.
Your opinions please.........
Example....he stamped elevator function check cards on day one of the check.
A little worrying because the elevators and horizontal stab were removed during the check.
His excuse was "someone will raise a job card for this anyway"
Eventually someone decided enough was enough and called in the CAA (give the man a medal)
Did the manager lose his job? NO he still works for the same company, in the same job!
He should of lost his job without question.
On the other hand there was a witch hunt to find the bloke that called the CAA.
Your opinions please.........
Guest
Posts: n/a
Keep in mind that if you decide to do something about this type of behavior, it is up to you to make the case. A phone call to ask someone else to do all of the legwork doesn't go very far. Take a look at what is going on at Alaska Airlines, where the government and the airline are trying to put the cat back in the bag. Prepare to be the bad guy until everything is eventually resolved.
Good luck, as it is a difficult position to be in.
Good luck, as it is a difficult position to be in.
Guest
Posts: n/a
What a can of worms I've opened .
O.K. I admit such a serious issue will provoke & sadly , judging by some of the responses the senario is not an isolated one . I believe there are more of us who either suspect or know of individuals who carry out these acts of gross misconduct.
I have no doubt as to which was the correct answer to the last question I asked & was unwise to even suggest the other two as possible alternatives but sometimes sarcasm gets the better of me.
It would be equally irresponsible to take action against these individuals acting on suspicion & hearsay alone so without evidence to back up the allegation I would not be able to take It further. However it is the very people who work with these individuals everyday & who witness the illegal & immoral actions who are in the best position to act. If they have already but to no avail & as some have stated the CAA won't do anything anyway then what do you do?
And yes , our Quality Dept are passivating authorisations held by staff currently in positions & areas which don't require them to hold them but why are the dragging their heels? As I understand this has been going on for over 1 1/2 years now.
Could it be possible to artificially inflate the numbers of current certifying staff so as to maintain the company AOC?
[This message has been edited by Ali Crom (edited 19 February 2001).]
O.K. I admit such a serious issue will provoke & sadly , judging by some of the responses the senario is not an isolated one . I believe there are more of us who either suspect or know of individuals who carry out these acts of gross misconduct.
I have no doubt as to which was the correct answer to the last question I asked & was unwise to even suggest the other two as possible alternatives but sometimes sarcasm gets the better of me.
It would be equally irresponsible to take action against these individuals acting on suspicion & hearsay alone so without evidence to back up the allegation I would not be able to take It further. However it is the very people who work with these individuals everyday & who witness the illegal & immoral actions who are in the best position to act. If they have already but to no avail & as some have stated the CAA won't do anything anyway then what do you do?
And yes , our Quality Dept are passivating authorisations held by staff currently in positions & areas which don't require them to hold them but why are the dragging their heels? As I understand this has been going on for over 1 1/2 years now.
Could it be possible to artificially inflate the numbers of current certifying staff so as to maintain the company AOC?
[This message has been edited by Ali Crom (edited 19 February 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ali.
I think you have hit the nail on the head with the thoughts about inflated numbers of licence holders.
I still have authorisations that I haven't used for several years and quality are not bothered about taking them away.
It will be interesting to see what happens on June 1st when JAR66 comes into action.
I think you have hit the nail on the head with the thoughts about inflated numbers of licence holders.
I still have authorisations that I haven't used for several years and quality are not bothered about taking them away.
It will be interesting to see what happens on June 1st when JAR66 comes into action.