Aviation Safety Forum Australia an Oz must participate.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dunnunda & Godzone
Age: 74
Posts: 4,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aviation Safety Forum Australia an Oz must participate.
We in these halls talk, argue, pontificate, debate, fight and generally get all worked up about "safety" in Australia and the rest of the world but rarely get to do something substantive and positive about it or know where to go to get help.
Well here is a way to do it and they are independant, non political, not for profit and without any sectional "axes" to grind.
my bold.
It's been a fairly well kept secret 'til now,
seriously there has been a fair bit of distraction of late and they have probably got a little lost in all the "noise" here. But it's now time.
go here and have a good look for yourself.
They have a stellar board and executive committee all of whom I'm sure would welcome further and even more expert support for whatever and from wherever. They are also very well connected without being beholden.
Aviation Safety Foundation Australia
There are a growing number of operators participating in their activities and gaining the very real financial as well as the professional benefits as a bonus to the core safety agenda.
If your organisation is not already a member or using their services they should be.
If you are an employee of an operator who isn't then talk to the boss and point him at the site.
They also monitor and participate in PPRuNe so they can't be all that bad.
Bill Mattes is now the Executive Director and will be opening their own premises at Tulla very soon.
He would be delighted to hear from you and they have my full support.
The choice as always is yours but I hope you will agree.
Well here is a way to do it and they are independant, non political, not for profit and without any sectional "axes" to grind.
The Aviation Safety Foundation Australia (ASFA) has been developed over the past four years to promote air safety, coordinate and facilitate independent air safety resources in Australia and establish standards of practice within the industry.
ASFA was launched in February 1997 by the then Minister for Transport, Mr John Sharp MP. It is an independent, non political, not for profit, incorporated organisation with a Board of Directors and Executive Director.
All major industry groups, the Australian Transportation Safety Bureau, Airservices Australia, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and the Australian Defence Force have expressed their full support for ASFA.
ASFA's vision is to have an accident free environment in Australian aviation. Its mission is to provide knowledge and learning to the aviation industry, thereby helping it achieve operational excellence. We will do this by adherence to operating benchmarks determined by the industry, providing education and information through a range of products and services, and capitalising on national and international affiliations and experiences.
Through the promotion of air safety standards, the Foundation aims to instil greater public confidence and interest in aviation.
The Foundation's services and resources include; establishment and dissemination of "best practice standards", Seminars and Workshops, Information Bulletins and Publications, Flight Safety Management Programs, Aviation Safety Awards, Posters and an Annual Conference and General Meeting.
ASFA was launched in February 1997 by the then Minister for Transport, Mr John Sharp MP. It is an independent, non political, not for profit, incorporated organisation with a Board of Directors and Executive Director.
All major industry groups, the Australian Transportation Safety Bureau, Airservices Australia, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and the Australian Defence Force have expressed their full support for ASFA.
ASFA's vision is to have an accident free environment in Australian aviation. Its mission is to provide knowledge and learning to the aviation industry, thereby helping it achieve operational excellence. We will do this by adherence to operating benchmarks determined by the industry, providing education and information through a range of products and services, and capitalising on national and international affiliations and experiences.
Through the promotion of air safety standards, the Foundation aims to instil greater public confidence and interest in aviation.
The Foundation's services and resources include; establishment and dissemination of "best practice standards", Seminars and Workshops, Information Bulletins and Publications, Flight Safety Management Programs, Aviation Safety Awards, Posters and an Annual Conference and General Meeting.
It's been a fairly well kept secret 'til now,
seriously there has been a fair bit of distraction of late and they have probably got a little lost in all the "noise" here. But it's now time.go here and have a good look for yourself.
They have a stellar board and executive committee all of whom I'm sure would welcome further and even more expert support for whatever and from wherever. They are also very well connected without being beholden.
Aviation Safety Foundation Australia
There are a growing number of operators participating in their activities and gaining the very real financial as well as the professional benefits as a bonus to the core safety agenda.
If your organisation is not already a member or using their services they should be.
If you are an employee of an operator who isn't then talk to the boss and point him at the site.
They also monitor and participate in PPRuNe so they can't be all that bad.
Bill Mattes is now the Executive Director and will be opening their own premises at Tulla very soon.
He would be delighted to hear from you and they have my full support.
The choice as always is yours but I hope you will agree.
Yes it all sounds terribly impressive stuff. Big talkfest - but one has yet to see specific results that have a direct flight safety effect on the life of the typical GA pilot. 
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Is this a Governmental or NG Organisation? "Independent", but launched...by the then Minister for Transport".
What is their tie-up with Ansett? Their home page features this link:
Have you visited the Ansett Star website?
Click here - http://www.fly.to/ansettstars
What is their tie-up with Ansett? Their home page features this link:
Have you visited the Ansett Star website?
Click here - http://www.fly.to/ansettstars
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We all call our industry a profession yet until we reach an airline except for an often inadequate flight review every two years, we are left to our own devices to continue our professional development and maintain our proficiency. If we are a “profession” we are the only one without a professional body to assess our performance and establish our ethical responsibilities. The medical and legal professions have internships and articles respectively to continue their professional development and undergo annual accreditation criteria.
Are we safe because we comply with CASA’s rules. How many flying schools would you send your siblings to?? Yet most comply with the regulations. Perhaps ASFA, a non-profit, non-political and independent organisation might provide the opportunity for our industry to improve its image and shake its tardy public image. Only the industry can help it self by setting its own goals. Perhaps we can improve our safety through incentives rather than the “big stick”
I see ASFA has a team from the international Flight Safety Foundation coming to Australia in September to introduce its approach and landing accident reduction program that is now being used world wide to educate aviators on what is the greatest killer in aviation. Some international regulatory authorities are also mandating this training for their airlines.
I also see that most Alaskan airlines are adopting the ASFA safety management start up program to implement their safety programs.
Didn’t ASFA run several instructor refresher programs in Melbourne and Sydney last year with an excellent presenter from the US AOPA Air Safety Foundation and didn’t ASFA bring our Dr Tony Kern to run several Airmanship programs.
Centaurus, more than just a “talkfest” I would have thought!!
If we are seious about our industry, perhaps it should support such an organisation as ASFA rather than continuing our cynicism about anything that has safety attached to it. Perhaps those of use who are cynics should look at our own safety ethic.
Kaptin M, I believe the Federal Government is supporting the ASFA initiative. But this does not mean it cannot be independent. Do we also say ASFA is not independent because it is supported by Qantas.
Are we safe because we comply with CASA’s rules. How many flying schools would you send your siblings to?? Yet most comply with the regulations. Perhaps ASFA, a non-profit, non-political and independent organisation might provide the opportunity for our industry to improve its image and shake its tardy public image. Only the industry can help it self by setting its own goals. Perhaps we can improve our safety through incentives rather than the “big stick”
I see ASFA has a team from the international Flight Safety Foundation coming to Australia in September to introduce its approach and landing accident reduction program that is now being used world wide to educate aviators on what is the greatest killer in aviation. Some international regulatory authorities are also mandating this training for their airlines.
I also see that most Alaskan airlines are adopting the ASFA safety management start up program to implement their safety programs.
Didn’t ASFA run several instructor refresher programs in Melbourne and Sydney last year with an excellent presenter from the US AOPA Air Safety Foundation and didn’t ASFA bring our Dr Tony Kern to run several Airmanship programs.
Centaurus, more than just a “talkfest” I would have thought!!
If we are seious about our industry, perhaps it should support such an organisation as ASFA rather than continuing our cynicism about anything that has safety attached to it. Perhaps those of use who are cynics should look at our own safety ethic.
Kaptin M, I believe the Federal Government is supporting the ASFA initiative. But this does not mean it cannot be independent. Do we also say ASFA is not independent because it is supported by Qantas.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Interesting post trashie, if not perhaps a slight emotive.
We often compare the aviation industry with the medical and legal professions, but why? Is it because of the expensive, specialised training - yet training that can be undertaken without any minimum education qualification. Or is it because of the responsibility a pilot is required to undertake when transporting his human charges? Or perhaps the comparable salary structures?
Flying, as with medicine, requires manual skills and an ability to quickly adapt one's thought processes to a change in the operating environment.
Unlike medicine and the legal profession, the flying industry is multi-layered, beginning with the zero time 16/60 year old novice, stepping up to the PPL (possibly a Doctor or lawyer) with his own aircraft, a couple of hundred hours, and I.R., who perhaps "moonlights" on the odd occasion. Through to the full-time professionals - the instructors, crop dusters, joy-flight operators, bank runners, commuter pilots, second level airline operators, and major airline pilot employees.
EACH operating to a DIFFERENT standard, simply because they have no NEED nor REQUIREMENT for one to maintain the same standard as another.
Why are airlines more regulated than other levels of aviation? Because of the volume and frequency at which they operate.
For ASFA to make any impact on aviation in Australia they are going to have to "divisionalise" - this must almost sound like a Utopia in the making for most Government managerial types!! But it is - to my mind - the ONLY realistic approach to a multi-layered industry.
Simply broadbrushing ALL flying as "Aviation" will result in yet more money being wasted as the whole machinery slowly becomes bogged down.
A macro approach, employing experienced, well-regarded PILOTS from each of the tiers identified, in addition to the academic theorist exponents.
And a final question again for you, trashie;
What is ASFA's association with Ansett?
Their home page features this link:
Have you visited the Ansett Star website?
Click here - http://www.fly.to/ansettstars
We often compare the aviation industry with the medical and legal professions, but why? Is it because of the expensive, specialised training - yet training that can be undertaken without any minimum education qualification. Or is it because of the responsibility a pilot is required to undertake when transporting his human charges? Or perhaps the comparable salary structures?
Flying, as with medicine, requires manual skills and an ability to quickly adapt one's thought processes to a change in the operating environment.
Unlike medicine and the legal profession, the flying industry is multi-layered, beginning with the zero time 16/60 year old novice, stepping up to the PPL (possibly a Doctor or lawyer) with his own aircraft, a couple of hundred hours, and I.R., who perhaps "moonlights" on the odd occasion. Through to the full-time professionals - the instructors, crop dusters, joy-flight operators, bank runners, commuter pilots, second level airline operators, and major airline pilot employees.
EACH operating to a DIFFERENT standard, simply because they have no NEED nor REQUIREMENT for one to maintain the same standard as another.
Why are airlines more regulated than other levels of aviation? Because of the volume and frequency at which they operate.
For ASFA to make any impact on aviation in Australia they are going to have to "divisionalise" - this must almost sound like a Utopia in the making for most Government managerial types!! But it is - to my mind - the ONLY realistic approach to a multi-layered industry.
Simply broadbrushing ALL flying as "Aviation" will result in yet more money being wasted as the whole machinery slowly becomes bogged down.
A macro approach, employing experienced, well-regarded PILOTS from each of the tiers identified, in addition to the academic theorist exponents.
And a final question again for you, trashie;
What is ASFA's association with Ansett?
Their home page features this link:
Have you visited the Ansett Star website?
Click here - http://www.fly.to/ansettstars
Join Date: May 2001
Location: AUS
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting posts.
I agree with Kaptin M that it would be good to see the organisation have separate areas to deal with problems for specific parts of aviation.
I mean, what is imortant to a someone doing night freight isnt going to be as important to someone flying an ag machine. Both require high standards but of differing kinds (so i imagine).
Twin
I agree with Kaptin M that it would be good to see the organisation have separate areas to deal with problems for specific parts of aviation.
I mean, what is imortant to a someone doing night freight isnt going to be as important to someone flying an ag machine. Both require high standards but of differing kinds (so i imagine).
Twin
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kaptin M,
I take your point about being multi layered and I believe that is what ASFA has attempted to do in developing its guidelines. There are a number of generic imperatives regarding safety culture, safety systems, individual skills, management and internal and external coordination. Each section of the industry then has specific guidelines according to their occupation.
Any programs developed I believe will be tailored to suit that element of the industry. These guidelines were developed through consultation and workshops with over two hundred aviation professionals representing all areas of the industry and aviation consumers and are supported by the various aviation interest groups and associations.
In regard to ASFA's relationship with Ansett, I believe both Ansett and Qantas were ASFA members and Qantas remains a major sponsor of ASFA.
I take your point about being multi layered and I believe that is what ASFA has attempted to do in developing its guidelines. There are a number of generic imperatives regarding safety culture, safety systems, individual skills, management and internal and external coordination. Each section of the industry then has specific guidelines according to their occupation.
Any programs developed I believe will be tailored to suit that element of the industry. These guidelines were developed through consultation and workshops with over two hundred aviation professionals representing all areas of the industry and aviation consumers and are supported by the various aviation interest groups and associations.
In regard to ASFA's relationship with Ansett, I believe both Ansett and Qantas were ASFA members and Qantas remains a major sponsor of ASFA.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern NSW
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, sounds great, but I'm a little battle-weary. Of course everyone supports "safety", along with motherhood and apple pie - what I would like to know, to help me form an opinion about this, is: who's funding it? Where does the money come from?
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Harveygee,
Good question. Actually, the Federal Government (not CASA) appropriated funding in their 2001/2002 Budget for three years seed funding based on a business plan submitted in March last year.
The funding is a reducing amount over three years to assist ASFA achieve self sufficiency in that time. Funding is expected to be achieved through membership and sponsorship. The seed funding will be used to produce the products and services required to assist individuals and organisations achieve the ASFA guidelines.
Currently, Qantas, several aircraft manufacturers and the aviation insurers provide substantial support.
Incentives for membership and funding will come from better insurance risk considerations, preferred employment opportunities and recognition of the ASFA guidelines by the major aviation consumers. BHP Billiton is already an active member of ASFA.
Good question. Actually, the Federal Government (not CASA) appropriated funding in their 2001/2002 Budget for three years seed funding based on a business plan submitted in March last year.
The funding is a reducing amount over three years to assist ASFA achieve self sufficiency in that time. Funding is expected to be achieved through membership and sponsorship. The seed funding will be used to produce the products and services required to assist individuals and organisations achieve the ASFA guidelines.
Currently, Qantas, several aircraft manufacturers and the aviation insurers provide substantial support.
Incentives for membership and funding will come from better insurance risk considerations, preferred employment opportunities and recognition of the ASFA guidelines by the major aviation consumers. BHP Billiton is already an active member of ASFA.
I really would like to think that your average day to day young flying instructor and the young hopefuls who are churned out from the myriads of small and large flying schools around Australia, will obtain some good out of the this new flight safety initiative. These are the people that need flight safety education - not the well established big aircraft operators who already have access to lots of in-house reading material.
But from what I saw at the various flight safety forums run over the past 5-10 years it is the young generation who are conspicious by their absence. Lots of grey bearded old fogies like me turn up because we are interested in learning more about flight safety - but at week-ends when the forums are held, the young instructors are to be found drinking coffee at their local flying school waiting for the elusive TIF or flogging the circuit at Moorabbin or Point Cook.
The greatest flight safety organ of its day was Mac Jobs wonderful Flight Safety Digest. It was chokka full of juicy accident reports. It had none of the slick mumbo jumbo of CRM, Safety Management for Exceutives and all that somewhat nebulous stuff that spouts from well-intentioned writers - but which leaves one wondering "What I have learned of real flight safety value".
If this new you beaut flight safety organisation wants to get the flight safety message across then it needs to push safety education into the flying schools in a positive way - and that is a Flight Safety Digest type publication. Why not run re-prints of Flight Safety Digest - the causes of accidents haven't changed at all in the last thirty years. The Mac Job editorials were a delight to read - no bland "mustn't blame the pilot approach"- but readable and straight to the point.
But from what I saw at the various flight safety forums run over the past 5-10 years it is the young generation who are conspicious by their absence. Lots of grey bearded old fogies like me turn up because we are interested in learning more about flight safety - but at week-ends when the forums are held, the young instructors are to be found drinking coffee at their local flying school waiting for the elusive TIF or flogging the circuit at Moorabbin or Point Cook.
The greatest flight safety organ of its day was Mac Jobs wonderful Flight Safety Digest. It was chokka full of juicy accident reports. It had none of the slick mumbo jumbo of CRM, Safety Management for Exceutives and all that somewhat nebulous stuff that spouts from well-intentioned writers - but which leaves one wondering "What I have learned of real flight safety value".
If this new you beaut flight safety organisation wants to get the flight safety message across then it needs to push safety education into the flying schools in a positive way - and that is a Flight Safety Digest type publication. Why not run re-prints of Flight Safety Digest - the causes of accidents haven't changed at all in the last thirty years. The Mac Job editorials were a delight to read - no bland "mustn't blame the pilot approach"- but readable and straight to the point.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Went to one of these safety seminars organised by CASA some several years ago.
Very interesting speakers,very informative and educational...........
right until the point where after the point was raised suggesting all GA aircraft in controlled airspace should carry transponders was mentioned by the speaker to allow TCAS to operate in cases of VCA's (violations of controlled aircraft).
Some twit stood brashly and insisted it was his God-given right to fly where he wants,when he wants and that transponders were an unnecessary expense that violated his rights of passage and privacy (whatever that is).
All we needed then was someone to yell "the sheriff's a niggre,the sheriff's a niggre" and it would have sounded like something out of Blazing Saddles!
What did I learn from the day?
Apart from the fact that there are some very weird people out there, it was all very basic but to someone starting off in GA I think it would have been worth alot.
It doesnt stop reckless employers from insisting that aircraft be flown overweight,over-hours etc etc but it makes you aware of the law.
Kaptin M - the association with that web site I'm not sure of but I think it can be traced to a website called:
http://www.jamesnixon.com
I think this supposed PR person probably has something to do with it all.
Now reading the personals about this fellow no wonder Ansett had difficulties.
Talk about blowing your own trumpet!
Very interesting speakers,very informative and educational...........
right until the point where after the point was raised suggesting all GA aircraft in controlled airspace should carry transponders was mentioned by the speaker to allow TCAS to operate in cases of VCA's (violations of controlled aircraft).
Some twit stood brashly and insisted it was his God-given right to fly where he wants,when he wants and that transponders were an unnecessary expense that violated his rights of passage and privacy (whatever that is).
All we needed then was someone to yell "the sheriff's a niggre,the sheriff's a niggre" and it would have sounded like something out of Blazing Saddles!
What did I learn from the day?
Apart from the fact that there are some very weird people out there, it was all very basic but to someone starting off in GA I think it would have been worth alot.
It doesnt stop reckless employers from insisting that aircraft be flown overweight,over-hours etc etc but it makes you aware of the law.
Kaptin M - the association with that web site I'm not sure of but I think it can be traced to a website called:
http://www.jamesnixon.com
I think this supposed PR person probably has something to do with it all.
Now reading the personals about this fellow no wonder Ansett had difficulties.
Talk about blowing your own trumpet!
Last edited by TIMMEEEE; 9th Aug 2002 at 06:45.
