Controllers to Stopwork
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Controllers to Stopwork
This has just been sent to me:
The Civil Air National Executive via telephone hook-up have unanimously carried the following resolution which is now issued as a directive to all Civil Air members:
“That the National Executive, in accordance with Rule 22(b)(6), authorises Industrial Action in the form of a National Stop Work on Friday 14 June 2002, between 1600 and 2100 EST.”
The purpose of this industrial action is to pursue our industrial claims, and to demonstrate that the rejection by Airservices of the Civil Air proposal put on 3 June 2002, is completely unacceptable. Civil Air and its members believe that further discussion should be required to fully explore all of the issues identified in our submission. At this point Airservices have
simply rejected the proposal, without any detailed response on the individual items.
Airservices has continued to reject any fair and open negotiation for the last 18 months with this Association.
Civil Air believes that Airservices’ prime focus in these ‘negotiations’ has been to de-value the career of Air Traffic Control.
Civil Air members have implemented new technology, which has resulted in significant savings for the industry as a whole and yet, as recognition, the members have been offered less than a CPI increase with a ‘Restructure’ that attacks the present structure in terms of salary and salary only. This is in addition to the wage freeze that has been in place since the nominal expiry of the previous Agreement.
Civil Air has proposed a review of the business that will provide significant savings industry wide by not simply reducing controllers’ wages.
The employer has rejected the Civil Air proposal out of hand. The proposal put by Civil Air, in part, attempts to reduce the amount of managers in the organisation. Airservices is a significantly profitable business and has many cost saving initiatives that could be implemented. Management rejected this concept, and have directed their savings initiatives against those employees who generate their income (core business).
In submissions before the Australian Industrial Relations Commission (AIRC) Civil Air sought the opportunity to present our proposals in detail. Commissioner Gay encouraged that approach
however Civil Air believes that the proposals received scant consideration by Airservices’
representatives. As you would be aware, Airservices has now re-activated their application for termination of the Civil Air bargaining period.
Airservices and the Australian Industrial Registrar have been advised of this industrial action in accordance with section 170MO(2) of Workplace Relations Act 1996.
Ted Lang
PRESIDENT
Looks like things are hotting up again.
Tacolote.
The Civil Air National Executive via telephone hook-up have unanimously carried the following resolution which is now issued as a directive to all Civil Air members:
“That the National Executive, in accordance with Rule 22(b)(6), authorises Industrial Action in the form of a National Stop Work on Friday 14 June 2002, between 1600 and 2100 EST.”
The purpose of this industrial action is to pursue our industrial claims, and to demonstrate that the rejection by Airservices of the Civil Air proposal put on 3 June 2002, is completely unacceptable. Civil Air and its members believe that further discussion should be required to fully explore all of the issues identified in our submission. At this point Airservices have
simply rejected the proposal, without any detailed response on the individual items.
Airservices has continued to reject any fair and open negotiation for the last 18 months with this Association.
Civil Air believes that Airservices’ prime focus in these ‘negotiations’ has been to de-value the career of Air Traffic Control.
Civil Air members have implemented new technology, which has resulted in significant savings for the industry as a whole and yet, as recognition, the members have been offered less than a CPI increase with a ‘Restructure’ that attacks the present structure in terms of salary and salary only. This is in addition to the wage freeze that has been in place since the nominal expiry of the previous Agreement.
Civil Air has proposed a review of the business that will provide significant savings industry wide by not simply reducing controllers’ wages.
The employer has rejected the Civil Air proposal out of hand. The proposal put by Civil Air, in part, attempts to reduce the amount of managers in the organisation. Airservices is a significantly profitable business and has many cost saving initiatives that could be implemented. Management rejected this concept, and have directed their savings initiatives against those employees who generate their income (core business).
In submissions before the Australian Industrial Relations Commission (AIRC) Civil Air sought the opportunity to present our proposals in detail. Commissioner Gay encouraged that approach
however Civil Air believes that the proposals received scant consideration by Airservices’
representatives. As you would be aware, Airservices has now re-activated their application for termination of the Civil Air bargaining period.
Airservices and the Australian Industrial Registrar have been advised of this industrial action in accordance with section 170MO(2) of Workplace Relations Act 1996.
Ted Lang
PRESIDENT
Looks like things are hotting up again.
Tacolote.
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Don't need em at most airports. Perhaps this will prove to the Government that they have become too expensive.
One neat scam, become a Tower Controller, get big bucks, then even if you drop back to a desk job you keep the big bucks.
Around $130K a year I hear.
Perhaps after this Airservices will work out that closing Coffs, Tamworth, Broome, Karatha, Kununurra etc won't cause any real problems.
Chuck
One neat scam, become a Tower Controller, get big bucks, then even if you drop back to a desk job you keep the big bucks.
Around $130K a year I hear.
Perhaps after this Airservices will work out that closing Coffs, Tamworth, Broome, Karatha, Kununurra etc won't cause any real problems.
Chuck
An interesting response ulm.
First of all I don't think you'll find many earning over $100K pa.
Secondly Broome does not have a tower provided by AsA, so I don't know what they will discover. They have a CAGRO.
Karratha does not have a tower either.
Oh and Kununurra doesn't have a tower either...
So which airports...
in your opinion?
First of all I don't think you'll find many earning over $100K pa.
Secondly Broome does not have a tower provided by AsA, so I don't know what they will discover. They have a CAGRO.
Karratha does not have a tower either.
Oh and Kununurra doesn't have a tower either...
So which airports...
Don't need em
in your opinion?
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ULM what a wind up? You wouldn't be Charles Ulm an ASA back Office Manager who earns more than any controller in Australia would you? Maybe not...
For interst, these are the current salary scales (and I'm sure you know) :
Controller
44,129
47,437
51,272
54,277
FPC
57,669
59,748
62,191
64,804
67,220
68,467
69,770
71,329
72,885
74,446
ATC Team Leader 81,890
Plus shift penalties. Add about 4% for Melbourne, Adelaide, Cairns, Perth, Canberra and Brisbane and about 8% for Sydney controllers.
This is the offer:
ATC Band 3 - ATC Graduate
39,500
40,721
41,942
44,129
47,437
51,272
ATC Band 4 - Air Traffic Controller
51,272
54,277
57,669
59,748
62,191
63,890
64,804
67,220
68,467
69,770
ATC Band 5 - Senior Air Traffic Controller
69,770
71,329
72,885
74,446
ATC Band 6 - Team Leader 81,890
Note that the offer has many more increments, takes longer to get to the high salaries, Senior Controllers are limited (a number yet to be determined, trust us!!!!). You have to gain skills and constantly use them otherwise you go backwards for actually getting experience and not doing back office stuff. The proposal is that if you currently are on the top salary ie $74446 you go back to $69770 unless you get trained in a whole rang of skills, which they will determine soon, what it is when it is and when you can train. None of these skills will relate to how you actually do ATC, but rather things like Incident investigating, budget planning courses etc. It's a joke.
As for Broome, Kununurra, Karatha hmmmm....
Tacolote
For interst, these are the current salary scales (and I'm sure you know) :
Controller
44,129
47,437
51,272
54,277
FPC
57,669
59,748
62,191
64,804
67,220
68,467
69,770
71,329
72,885
74,446
ATC Team Leader 81,890
Plus shift penalties. Add about 4% for Melbourne, Adelaide, Cairns, Perth, Canberra and Brisbane and about 8% for Sydney controllers.
This is the offer:
ATC Band 3 - ATC Graduate
39,500
40,721
41,942
44,129
47,437
51,272
ATC Band 4 - Air Traffic Controller
51,272
54,277
57,669
59,748
62,191
63,890
64,804
67,220
68,467
69,770
ATC Band 5 - Senior Air Traffic Controller
69,770
71,329
72,885
74,446
ATC Band 6 - Team Leader 81,890
Note that the offer has many more increments, takes longer to get to the high salaries, Senior Controllers are limited (a number yet to be determined, trust us!!!!). You have to gain skills and constantly use them otherwise you go backwards for actually getting experience and not doing back office stuff. The proposal is that if you currently are on the top salary ie $74446 you go back to $69770 unless you get trained in a whole rang of skills, which they will determine soon, what it is when it is and when you can train. None of these skills will relate to how you actually do ATC, but rather things like Incident investigating, budget planning courses etc. It's a joke.
As for Broome, Kununurra, Karatha hmmmm....
Tacolote
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How much do they earn then. Bearing in mind the cost is shoved at CHTR, AWK and PVT whether they need it or not!!!!
And what about Coffs??? Tamworth??? AF??? BKT??? Maroochy??, Coollie??, Rocky??, Canberra even. Why do we need em. If ou can come up with a good argument (YSCB perhaps) then why a separate Ground there????
Really
And while we are at it, how many dollars are spent nationally on fire fighting services and how many lives have been saved???? (Again, the cost is 'shared' regardless of need or even a cost-benefit analysis)
Chuck
And what about Coffs??? Tamworth??? AF??? BKT??? Maroochy??, Coollie??, Rocky??, Canberra even. Why do we need em. If ou can come up with a good argument (YSCB perhaps) then why a separate Ground there????
Really
And while we are at it, how many dollars are spent nationally on fire fighting services and how many lives have been saved???? (Again, the cost is 'shared' regardless of need or even a cost-benefit analysis)
Chuck
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I hear a base grade controller, with all penalties included (shift penalty etc), earns about $42K. [I heard it from my pay packet].
The managers are probably the ones on $130K (you remember the managers, the ones responsible for the mess?).
Now what is a young person to do? Get into this stressful, thankless, undervalued profession in Australia, or follow the path of another. A quick look at my schoolboy peers: Friend A, computer programmer, first year working $80K, now $125K. Friend B, pilot, first year $18K, now$245K. Friend C, banking, first year $50K, now $180K pkg. Friend D, management trainee, first year $35K, now $200K pkg. I got a lecture from one of the abovementioned about 'worth' which ran along the lines of 'how much you get paid is related to how much responsibility you have and how much your employer makes from your labour'. ASA makes $hiteloads off it's employees. And if you think things would be better if ATC's got paid less- you are sadly mistaken. ASA makes a lrage profit, and have you ever seen a government give up a tax?
The only one working the crap hours etc that a controller does, is the pilot (and he gets compensated).
Considering the calibre of the people ASA try to attract, then the way they treat them, ULM et al won't have to worry, there won't be any controllers in Aus in a few years.
Ask a PROFESSIONAL pilot if he prefers CTA or G?
The managers are probably the ones on $130K (you remember the managers, the ones responsible for the mess?).
Now what is a young person to do? Get into this stressful, thankless, undervalued profession in Australia, or follow the path of another. A quick look at my schoolboy peers: Friend A, computer programmer, first year working $80K, now $125K. Friend B, pilot, first year $18K, now$245K. Friend C, banking, first year $50K, now $180K pkg. Friend D, management trainee, first year $35K, now $200K pkg. I got a lecture from one of the abovementioned about 'worth' which ran along the lines of 'how much you get paid is related to how much responsibility you have and how much your employer makes from your labour'. ASA makes $hiteloads off it's employees. And if you think things would be better if ATC's got paid less- you are sadly mistaken. ASA makes a lrage profit, and have you ever seen a government give up a tax?
The only one working the crap hours etc that a controller does, is the pilot (and he gets compensated).
Considering the calibre of the people ASA try to attract, then the way they treat them, ULM et al won't have to worry, there won't be any controllers in Aus in a few years.
Ask a PROFESSIONAL pilot if he prefers CTA or G?
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ULM,
There is no estimate of penalties there... The base pay's are about 4% more and 8% more respectively.
The actual shift penalties are commuted at 27%. But lets get it clear, you should compare jobs with base salaries. Shift penalties are just that, they are not part of your salary they are an allowance for actually working shifts.
I'd happily take the money without the shifts, but life is not like that.
For example an ASO4; an editor of our inhouse mag gets paid $45K, no shift work.
A FS officer who does HF, no licence, gets $44K starting point, before shift penalties.
Tacolote
There is no estimate of penalties there... The base pay's are about 4% more and 8% more respectively.
The actual shift penalties are commuted at 27%. But lets get it clear, you should compare jobs with base salaries. Shift penalties are just that, they are not part of your salary they are an allowance for actually working shifts.
I'd happily take the money without the shifts, but life is not like that.
For example an ASO4; an editor of our inhouse mag gets paid $45K, no shift work.
A FS officer who does HF, no licence, gets $44K starting point, before shift penalties.
Tacolote
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I don't have a preference, CTA or G, take em as they come.
But, if AsA are 'making $hitloads' as you say then you have the essence of the problem. Industry has had enough of paying through the nose. Particularly small scale charter and training, forced to pay for services they neither need nor want just because the airlines want them.
Take an example at Tvl. Controlled by the RAAF, but a C152 pays 'for the maintenance and upkeep of the ILS, VOR and NDB' (AsA response to a query). What a joke. This aircraft needs none of these as it is a flying school aircraft, VFR by day working on IFR (I follow roadways) rules. It should pay for what it uses, not subsidise QF RAAF or VB's needs for aids or AsA's huge profits.
Perhaps you guys are in the firing line wrongly, but until AsA stop RIPPING OFF THE LITTLE GUYS any pay claims you make are sure to cop flak.
And while you are contemplating the politically motivated Civil Air action, remember what Reagan did in the same circumstances. So, if you work at one of the more 'questionable' towers, it could be your job you lose, not just a payrise.
Chuck
But, if AsA are 'making $hitloads' as you say then you have the essence of the problem. Industry has had enough of paying through the nose. Particularly small scale charter and training, forced to pay for services they neither need nor want just because the airlines want them.
Take an example at Tvl. Controlled by the RAAF, but a C152 pays 'for the maintenance and upkeep of the ILS, VOR and NDB' (AsA response to a query). What a joke. This aircraft needs none of these as it is a flying school aircraft, VFR by day working on IFR (I follow roadways) rules. It should pay for what it uses, not subsidise QF RAAF or VB's needs for aids or AsA's huge profits.
Perhaps you guys are in the firing line wrongly, but until AsA stop RIPPING OFF THE LITTLE GUYS any pay claims you make are sure to cop flak.
And while you are contemplating the politically motivated Civil Air action, remember what Reagan did in the same circumstances. So, if you work at one of the more 'questionable' towers, it could be your job you lose, not just a payrise.
Chuck
Last edited by ulm; 10th Jun 2002 at 10:19.
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ULM,
Come on, what political motivation is there here? The actions of this association have been very reasonable given what they have been dealing with. This is no left wing union; get real.
This isn't about maintaining jobs, this is about a fair days pay for a fair days work.
The issue of Tower establishment/de-establishment criterea has nothing to do with this. AsA is positioning itself to have a subsidiary company to run its towers, together with its own board and even less accountable managers. That's a whole different problem.
User pays is what we have, The way charges are dished out is again a different issue. The controllers also think its a joke the way the accounting is done.
The controllers is not where your beef should be directed, it would be better to focus on the 400+ Managers, who are on contracts of over $140K who seem to do nothing than feather their own nests by ensuring there are significant levels of management to justify their own high Salaries.
Bill Pollard left AsA earning over $400K pa, now he's on a retainer of $50K + expenses... What for....??? this is the sort of waste that should be explored, not what the controller gets...
Look at the international market, I have been and so have many of my collegues; boy the grass is greener.
Tacolote
And while you are contemplating the politically motivated Civil Air action
So, if you work at one of the more 'questionable' towers, it could be your job you lose, not just a payrise
The issue of Tower establishment/de-establishment criterea has nothing to do with this. AsA is positioning itself to have a subsidiary company to run its towers, together with its own board and even less accountable managers. That's a whole different problem.
User pays is what we have, The way charges are dished out is again a different issue. The controllers also think its a joke the way the accounting is done.
The controllers is not where your beef should be directed, it would be better to focus on the 400+ Managers, who are on contracts of over $140K who seem to do nothing than feather their own nests by ensuring there are significant levels of management to justify their own high Salaries.
Bill Pollard left AsA earning over $400K pa, now he's on a retainer of $50K + expenses... What for....??? this is the sort of waste that should be explored, not what the controller gets...
Look at the international market, I have been and so have many of my collegues; boy the grass is greener.
Tacolote
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This thread has gone on such a tangent it's past escape velocity. For goodness sake this is simply an industrial dispute related to pay and conditions.
ASA: reduction of conditions; restructure and massive reduction in salary for newly recruited controllers; and marginal salary increase (negative in real & CPI & all-sectors-increase terms) for existing controllers.
Civil Air: alignment of conditions with other ATC providers and comparable local professions; catch-up salary increase; cost reduction through Canberra senior management consolidation.
Looks like it'll end up being arbitrated anyway, so let the Commission decide on the merits.
ASA: reduction of conditions; restructure and massive reduction in salary for newly recruited controllers; and marginal salary increase (negative in real & CPI & all-sectors-increase terms) for existing controllers.
Civil Air: alignment of conditions with other ATC providers and comparable local professions; catch-up salary increase; cost reduction through Canberra senior management consolidation.
Looks like it'll end up being arbitrated anyway, so let the Commission decide on the merits.
Controllers to Stopwork
Tacolote has "taken a lot "of licence and quoted a salary scale that has no meaning, save comparing apples with apples in the offer. He probably seeks to show controllers as lowly paid by referring to these figures.
AsA Controllers receive a composite salary that includes payment for working shifts (except Public Holidays and overtime, which attract extra payment). You would be scratching to find a controller with, say 15 years experience earning less than $95,000. Controllers not on shift also receive the composite wage even if they are currently working on projects or other such desk jobs. The composite wage is also paid when on recreation leave, sick leave and long service leave.
He is also incorrect in stating that a senior controller will drop to the lower bracket until he does some extra training. Those currently paid at the senior rate (FPC) would translate to the senior rate without having to do any of the courses. However new recruits would have to pass this barrier if and when they reach it on normal salary progression.:confused:
AsA Controllers receive a composite salary that includes payment for working shifts (except Public Holidays and overtime, which attract extra payment). You would be scratching to find a controller with, say 15 years experience earning less than $95,000. Controllers not on shift also receive the composite wage even if they are currently working on projects or other such desk jobs. The composite wage is also paid when on recreation leave, sick leave and long service leave.
He is also incorrect in stating that a senior controller will drop to the lower bracket until he does some extra training. Those currently paid at the senior rate (FPC) would translate to the senior rate without having to do any of the courses. However new recruits would have to pass this barrier if and when they reach it on normal salary progression.:confused:
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The composite wage is also paid when on recreation leave, sick leave and long service leave.
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hmmm...gotta be a windup!
ok ULM, I'll bite.....
CTA of G, you'll take them as they come (or words to that effect), driving your C152 it probably doesn't make much difference what airspace you fly in....it makes a difference to everybody else.
Still I fail to see how see and avoid works when your head seems stuck in a dark place....
The boys and girls in ATC in Oz have been trying to negotiate with a recalcitrent employer for over 18 months...this is a flow on from that.
As someone said before, you compare BASIC salary to get job worth....shift allowances etc etc are penalty payments for working ungodly hours etc etc. Like Christmas (yes I know we get paid more for that...personally I'd prefer the day off with the family but some of us are odd like that)
What tacalote said is correct....the grass is very much greener overseas...just ask traffic traffic....he'll tell you!
As for the threat of the Reagan vs PATCO dustup in the states.. it could well happen again, but you the paying public (and pilots) will suffer as well as the controllers. The US had a huge pile of USAF controllers that were able to step up to the plate to assist. The RAAF is battling to staff its own fields, let alone work the big centres...especially without trainging on the equipment. It's not like stepping up from a C152 to a C172, there is a bit more involved than that.
I wish the controllers all the best in this dispute, chin up guys!
CTA of G, you'll take them as they come (or words to that effect), driving your C152 it probably doesn't make much difference what airspace you fly in....it makes a difference to everybody else.
Still I fail to see how see and avoid works when your head seems stuck in a dark place....
The boys and girls in ATC in Oz have been trying to negotiate with a recalcitrent employer for over 18 months...this is a flow on from that.
As someone said before, you compare BASIC salary to get job worth....shift allowances etc etc are penalty payments for working ungodly hours etc etc. Like Christmas (yes I know we get paid more for that...personally I'd prefer the day off with the family but some of us are odd like that)
What tacalote said is correct....the grass is very much greener overseas...just ask traffic traffic....he'll tell you!
As for the threat of the Reagan vs PATCO dustup in the states.. it could well happen again, but you the paying public (and pilots) will suffer as well as the controllers. The US had a huge pile of USAF controllers that were able to step up to the plate to assist. The RAAF is battling to staff its own fields, let alone work the big centres...especially without trainging on the equipment. It's not like stepping up from a C152 to a C172, there is a bit more involved than that.
I wish the controllers all the best in this dispute, chin up guys!
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I believe ASA should adopt some benchmarking, in accordance with worlds best practice, and in the spirit of globalisation. Having to compete internationally is a tough business. I see there are vacancies at Eurocontrol: a validated controller with about 5 years exp. there earns about $165K AUD NET.
Oman looking for Area Controllers: 5 years exp offering $168K AUD NET.
Seeing a trend?
If you have US entry rights, FAA offering $160K AUD NET.
The grass is pretty green.
The sad thing is ASA managers think they are being really clever, treating the staff like this. When will their tax-payer funded MBA's get to the part about 'intellectual capital'?
And working o/s, you don't have to talk to ULM.
Oman looking for Area Controllers: 5 years exp offering $168K AUD NET.
Seeing a trend?
If you have US entry rights, FAA offering $160K AUD NET.
The grass is pretty green.
The sad thing is ASA managers think they are being really clever, treating the staff like this. When will their tax-payer funded MBA's get to the part about 'intellectual capital'?
And working o/s, you don't have to talk to ULM.
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Ferris - you are not thankless and undervalued. As a pilot, I would not and certainly could not do your job! Yes, I value you and thank you (until you do not give me a clearance - only joking)
Max
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Jungmeister,
Sorry those were the figures that I have. They don't mean anything... well...!
I haven't hid from the fact that we get shift penalties which are commuted into our salary. See my earlier post about 27%...
Show me one ATC who's not a Team Leader in an outstation who does get over $95K all up...??? Regardless of years in.
Is that right... where in the proposed document does it say that? Have you been reading differently to the way it's written... Trust us!!! Remember they did this to FS only a few years ago... Some of us have long memories... Well long enough!
Tacolote
<edited for spelling, whoops.>
Sorry those were the figures that I have. They don't mean anything... well...!
I haven't hid from the fact that we get shift penalties which are commuted into our salary. See my earlier post about 27%...
Show me one ATC who's not a Team Leader in an outstation who does get over $95K all up...??? Regardless of years in.
He is also incorrect in stating that a senior controller will drop to the lower bracket until he does some extra training. Those currently paid at the senior rate (FPC) would translate to the senior rate without having to do any of the courses. However new recruits would have to pass this barrier if and when they reach it on normal salary progression
Tacolote
<edited for spelling, whoops.>
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From a previous thread reposted FYI:
Taco I have heard on good authority that a covert price fixing arrangement is taking place at the highest of levels in the CPS between DOD and DOTRS with ATC salaries to reduce the bleeding from RAAF to ASA.
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The Grass is Greener (now that winter is over and you can see the grass)....
Hi Ferris et al,
I am an Australian and an operational trainee in Canada and as a trainee ("experienced controller program" ie recruitment program for qualified foreigners) am on just over $70,000CAD (equal to upper increments Oz FPC). When rated I can expect over $100K CAD with minimal overtime. Top increment (about 8 years for moi) milking the overtime makes just over $150K CAD (taking home over 90K AUD).
Just thought you can add this to the "grass is greener" list.
Mr Ulm be careful what you wish for....
I am an Australian and an operational trainee in Canada and as a trainee ("experienced controller program" ie recruitment program for qualified foreigners) am on just over $70,000CAD (equal to upper increments Oz FPC). When rated I can expect over $100K CAD with minimal overtime. Top increment (about 8 years for moi) milking the overtime makes just over $150K CAD (taking home over 90K AUD).
Just thought you can add this to the "grass is greener" list.
Mr Ulm be careful what you wish for....
Last edited by The Crimson Fruitbat; 11th Jun 2002 at 00:07.