NJS-717s ?
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I think Ultra's post says it all... I just have 2 things to add.
1. A grand majority of Impulse Airlines staff have done the best they can to improve relations between them, mainline and other regionals. There seems to be a continual attack on them, by a few QFLink pilots on this board that is really unwarranted. I recently attended an interview session with them (and no it wasn't for a pilots position before anyone asks) and the staff at that session had nothing but nice things to say about Qantas and also stressed that they were doing their outright best to ensure that their relationship with other Qantas business units was a positive one.
2. The bickering of pilots on here amazes me, there are a lot of us low hour guys out here that would do anything to get where you are, whether that be in the right hand seat of a D8 or left hand of a B717. Maybe before you complain about your conditions (that are somewhat better then any of the GA guys on this board are use to), about your saleries (which are most competitive on the international scale) or about your relationship with other airlines within Qantas (which is only worsened each time one of you posts here slagging off the other) you should remember why it was again you became a pilot, how pleased you should actually be to have any sort of airline position and how there are 1000's of us sitting out here who would love to be there as well and we certinally wouldn't be complaining as much as many of you are either!
I've read this debate for months, with some amazement at the stupid minority who are doing their best to not only make relationships between Qantas regionals worse, but who are giving QFLink pilots generally a bad reputation.
No-one disagrees that Qantas handled the merger badly, but enough is really enough, it wasn't any other pilots fault, just bad management so why try to make something from nothing?
1. A grand majority of Impulse Airlines staff have done the best they can to improve relations between them, mainline and other regionals. There seems to be a continual attack on them, by a few QFLink pilots on this board that is really unwarranted. I recently attended an interview session with them (and no it wasn't for a pilots position before anyone asks) and the staff at that session had nothing but nice things to say about Qantas and also stressed that they were doing their outright best to ensure that their relationship with other Qantas business units was a positive one.
2. The bickering of pilots on here amazes me, there are a lot of us low hour guys out here that would do anything to get where you are, whether that be in the right hand seat of a D8 or left hand of a B717. Maybe before you complain about your conditions (that are somewhat better then any of the GA guys on this board are use to), about your saleries (which are most competitive on the international scale) or about your relationship with other airlines within Qantas (which is only worsened each time one of you posts here slagging off the other) you should remember why it was again you became a pilot, how pleased you should actually be to have any sort of airline position and how there are 1000's of us sitting out here who would love to be there as well and we certinally wouldn't be complaining as much as many of you are either!
I've read this debate for months, with some amazement at the stupid minority who are doing their best to not only make relationships between Qantas regionals worse, but who are giving QFLink pilots generally a bad reputation.
No-one disagrees that Qantas handled the merger badly, but enough is really enough, it wasn't any other pilots fault, just bad management so why try to make something from nothing?
Join Date: Jul 2001
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717's in Darwin
Can anyone confirm whose 717 was in Darwin Mon 27 May at about 1900 local time.
I heard Darwin 121.8 (SMC) giving an a/c taxiing instructions to "line up behind the 717".
I heard Darwin 121.8 (SMC) giving an a/c taxiing instructions to "line up behind the 717".
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stormywx, actually the salaries at NJS and Impulse are not really all that competetive with overseas operators. However it is still enough to make a good living in OZ.
Now...has anyone rang DM yet? Perhaps evey employee of NJS should give her a call and take her up on the offer. Some forthright honesty about what is happening behing closed doors may go a way to help morale.
Now...has anyone rang DM yet? Perhaps evey employee of NJS should give her a call and take her up on the offer. Some forthright honesty about what is happening behing closed doors may go a way to help morale.
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Mppgf, was'nt referring to this thread in particular and if you can't work out who works for Impulse, then maybe you should take on the name you think I should have.
Airspeed ambassador, good post and could I add that some of the NJS pilots have been flying QF and even before that , AA pax, around for over 10 years, just because their pay gets double handled ( ie. QF to NJS to Pilot ) does'nt give anybody the right to treat them like Leppers.
And yes, it was the ever reliable ( cough, spit ) GT that started the rumour
Airspeed ambassador, good post and could I add that some of the NJS pilots have been flying QF and even before that , AA pax, around for over 10 years, just because their pay gets double handled ( ie. QF to NJS to Pilot ) does'nt give anybody the right to treat them like Leppers.
And yes, it was the ever reliable ( cough, spit ) GT that started the rumour
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I'M With Stupid: Perhaps reflecting of the hard facts on this issue may be worthwhile at this point.
1. NJS is Australia's 2nd biggest jet operator and is not going to be left with a bunch of BAe146s if QF and passengers want 717s.
2. NJS has just completed two large hangars and is investing in some maintenance related equipment.
3. Is having discussions with Boeing on leasing 10 717s. (ex TWA)
4. Lease rates at all time low of about $115,000 month.
5. 717 aircraft economics have blown Qantas away.
6. Qantas needs to have several aces up its sleeve to deal with Virgin Blue around Australia.
7. Air Tran says its cheaper to operate 717s with lease payments than operate fully depreciated DC-9-30s.
So I would guess that NJS will get some 717s in some form or another.
Best GT
1. NJS is Australia's 2nd biggest jet operator and is not going to be left with a bunch of BAe146s if QF and passengers want 717s.
2. NJS has just completed two large hangars and is investing in some maintenance related equipment.
3. Is having discussions with Boeing on leasing 10 717s. (ex TWA)
4. Lease rates at all time low of about $115,000 month.
5. 717 aircraft economics have blown Qantas away.
6. Qantas needs to have several aces up its sleeve to deal with Virgin Blue around Australia.
7. Air Tran says its cheaper to operate 717s with lease payments than operate fully depreciated DC-9-30s.
So I would guess that NJS will get some 717s in some form or another.
Best GT
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Geoffrey,
Nice that you could join us.
In response to your points;
1. Being the second biggest jet operator has nothing to do with the selection of 717's or any other aircraft. The passengers will get what QANTAS gives them if there is an economic case to introduce a new aircraft type.
2. The new hangars are not a sign that new aircraft are coming. NJS has identified how vulnerable they are, by relying on Qantas for so much of its income through the Qantaslink contract. They are trying very hard to win outsourced maintenance contracts with other airlines. Not to mention the fact that we have long needed some hangar space to work on our own aircraft!
3. Talks with Boeing does not equal 717's for NJS! Airconnex is another matter.
4. Next to the 146 lease rates, $115,000/month is not cheap. Some of our aircraft are so old, they probably pay us to have them!
5. The 717 is a great aircraft for the right market. The east coast is that market. Long runways, cooler temps, short sectors, this is where the 717 shines. On many current 146 routes, particularly in the summer months, the 146 would still uplift a better load. In WA the majority of routes need a 70-80 seat jet. The 717 would be half empty most of the time on exsisting routes (other than those were Qantas no uses 737's) eg Kalgoorlie, Broome, Karratha.
6. Virgin doesn’t (at this stage) seem too interested in flying on all the Qantaslink routes (just those serviced by QF 737's). Many of the 146 routes would not support two jet services.
7. See note 4 again!
Sorry Geoffrey, I would love to have a new 717 but I just don't see it happening. The info that is filtering down to us is that Qantas are interested in smaller regional jets (70-90 seats) in the longer term but that NJS would NOT necessarily be the operator of such aircraft. The BAe146 won’t be here forever but its here for a while yet.
AA
Nice that you could join us.
In response to your points;
1. Being the second biggest jet operator has nothing to do with the selection of 717's or any other aircraft. The passengers will get what QANTAS gives them if there is an economic case to introduce a new aircraft type.
2. The new hangars are not a sign that new aircraft are coming. NJS has identified how vulnerable they are, by relying on Qantas for so much of its income through the Qantaslink contract. They are trying very hard to win outsourced maintenance contracts with other airlines. Not to mention the fact that we have long needed some hangar space to work on our own aircraft!
3. Talks with Boeing does not equal 717's for NJS! Airconnex is another matter.
4. Next to the 146 lease rates, $115,000/month is not cheap. Some of our aircraft are so old, they probably pay us to have them!
5. The 717 is a great aircraft for the right market. The east coast is that market. Long runways, cooler temps, short sectors, this is where the 717 shines. On many current 146 routes, particularly in the summer months, the 146 would still uplift a better load. In WA the majority of routes need a 70-80 seat jet. The 717 would be half empty most of the time on exsisting routes (other than those were Qantas no uses 737's) eg Kalgoorlie, Broome, Karratha.
6. Virgin doesn’t (at this stage) seem too interested in flying on all the Qantaslink routes (just those serviced by QF 737's). Many of the 146 routes would not support two jet services.
7. See note 4 again!
Sorry Geoffrey, I would love to have a new 717 but I just don't see it happening. The info that is filtering down to us is that Qantas are interested in smaller regional jets (70-90 seats) in the longer term but that NJS would NOT necessarily be the operator of such aircraft. The BAe146 won’t be here forever but its here for a while yet.
AA
Last edited by Airspeed Ambassador; 28th May 2002 at 13:48.
Balinda, Capt Claret, flipside, Doctor Smith, Airspeed Ambassador and stormywx, thank you for the comments and opinions,
My comments on this matter are purely directed at the management of QF who, as stated correctly, own the trainset. Despite all the explanations of sound business judgement, however, the point has been passed where fiscal policy has determined a sound outcome.
The name Impulse was mentioned to make my point only easier to follow and I don't believe any half-intelligent pilot would honestly, in the longer term, blame another individual for causing the plight we now find ourselves in.
To repeat, Brand X,Y or Z would have made no difference to the outcome.
I do stand by my comments however that I'm amazed by the failures in our fraternity to think beyond their own backyard at the moment.
I don't mean any malice to NJS and no, they are not perceived as lepers- but again as you put it well CC, we too are no more and no less deserving - we, in contrast and in balance, have seen no improvement in our lot and a genuine degradation since the introduction of a new player, which is my point in listing the detail - to hopefully illustrate that UNLIKE other sectors of the Qantas or Qantaslink group, there has been additional burdens placed on specific parts of the Qantaslink sector to support or expand other sections of Qantaslink - the gains however have not been shared equally and it appears will never be.
We too, do our best to create an environment conducive to the companies ongoing success and daily functions have largely progressed thanks to the unpaid goodwill of staff - the goodwill however is quickly and justifiably drying up however, as it becomes more and more clear that QF have nothing except contempt for this specific part of their business.
Airspeed Ambassador, flipside, I and most don't make it a habit of "daily slanging off at other pilot's" to make ourselves feel better - we're a little too busy and too old for that sort of thing. "Being grateful for having a job" as satisfactory justification for a denial of opinion or sentiment? - the logic is flawed simply by the fact that we would all remain in our very first vocation or be earning non-sustainable salaries if this were to be honoured - it denies human nature in all respects and in the ultimate analysis would inhibit global progress..
It's been suggested that voting with your feet in these circumstances is the only way to go, however in the real world, options for alternative employment are limited by former association - that leaves Virgin only and really 45-55 y.o. no-previous-jet F/O's at Virgin? I think you'll find their philosophies in cabin crew recruitment extends largely to tech crew as well..
stormywx and others: I, along with my peers understand the opinion of us among the upcoming generation as possibly that of "grumpy old men" and as "bickering among ourselves", "giving ourselves bad reputations". In reality, there was a time when we all too, looked upon a Beech Queenair as sufficient to satisfy our lifetime career goals. However, don't trivialise this into a "bright and shiny new toy" syndrome. It is really more complex than that and the subtleties will, unfortunately, take you some years in the industry to appreciate.
At a time when it would have been appropriate to offer a measure of gratitude and confidence in their team by the offer of selected, if not all, opportunities as it currently does in every other sector of it's business, (mainline Flt Ops included), QF management have instead served up another slap-in-the-face as payment for unseen and ongoing staff loyalty and goodwill to targeted areas of its business.
Balinda, CC, I empathise your points of job security, however while conscious decisions were made by many people in their career paths, a person's success shouldn't be determinable by good luck alone, - in the same way a minority of long-termers stayed at Impulse in the belief that their bet would one day pay off, many too stayed in the turboprop companies, equally hopeful (and with a greater justification), that their horse would come home first. All other sectors of the QF business enjoy career progression - including mainline flt ops areas - the courtesy however, is specifically denied from individual areas of the regional fleet and a clear segregation exists.
The only justification is that management do this because they can - do not do this between domestic and long haul because it would be a larger call - unfortunately, the regionals are an easy target.
That promotional opportunities exist within mainline in all departments and between regional and mainline in all but Flt Ops, is clearly evidence of this.
This is the crux of the argument - the existence of undervaluation of the area of the business in which we operate in the eyes of the employer.
Unlike life at NJS, where this remains mostly transparent through geographical separation (and on-par salaries) - east coast turboprop operations confront this segregation daily.
Management's actions in this have been callous and are unjustifiable.
My comments on this matter are purely directed at the management of QF who, as stated correctly, own the trainset. Despite all the explanations of sound business judgement, however, the point has been passed where fiscal policy has determined a sound outcome.
The name Impulse was mentioned to make my point only easier to follow and I don't believe any half-intelligent pilot would honestly, in the longer term, blame another individual for causing the plight we now find ourselves in.
To repeat, Brand X,Y or Z would have made no difference to the outcome.
I do stand by my comments however that I'm amazed by the failures in our fraternity to think beyond their own backyard at the moment.
I don't mean any malice to NJS and no, they are not perceived as lepers- but again as you put it well CC, we too are no more and no less deserving - we, in contrast and in balance, have seen no improvement in our lot and a genuine degradation since the introduction of a new player, which is my point in listing the detail - to hopefully illustrate that UNLIKE other sectors of the Qantas or Qantaslink group, there has been additional burdens placed on specific parts of the Qantaslink sector to support or expand other sections of Qantaslink - the gains however have not been shared equally and it appears will never be.
We too, do our best to create an environment conducive to the companies ongoing success and daily functions have largely progressed thanks to the unpaid goodwill of staff - the goodwill however is quickly and justifiably drying up however, as it becomes more and more clear that QF have nothing except contempt for this specific part of their business.
Airspeed Ambassador, flipside, I and most don't make it a habit of "daily slanging off at other pilot's" to make ourselves feel better - we're a little too busy and too old for that sort of thing. "Being grateful for having a job" as satisfactory justification for a denial of opinion or sentiment? - the logic is flawed simply by the fact that we would all remain in our very first vocation or be earning non-sustainable salaries if this were to be honoured - it denies human nature in all respects and in the ultimate analysis would inhibit global progress..
It's been suggested that voting with your feet in these circumstances is the only way to go, however in the real world, options for alternative employment are limited by former association - that leaves Virgin only and really 45-55 y.o. no-previous-jet F/O's at Virgin? I think you'll find their philosophies in cabin crew recruitment extends largely to tech crew as well..
stormywx and others: I, along with my peers understand the opinion of us among the upcoming generation as possibly that of "grumpy old men" and as "bickering among ourselves", "giving ourselves bad reputations". In reality, there was a time when we all too, looked upon a Beech Queenair as sufficient to satisfy our lifetime career goals. However, don't trivialise this into a "bright and shiny new toy" syndrome. It is really more complex than that and the subtleties will, unfortunately, take you some years in the industry to appreciate.
At a time when it would have been appropriate to offer a measure of gratitude and confidence in their team by the offer of selected, if not all, opportunities as it currently does in every other sector of it's business, (mainline Flt Ops included), QF management have instead served up another slap-in-the-face as payment for unseen and ongoing staff loyalty and goodwill to targeted areas of its business.
Balinda, CC, I empathise your points of job security, however while conscious decisions were made by many people in their career paths, a person's success shouldn't be determinable by good luck alone, - in the same way a minority of long-termers stayed at Impulse in the belief that their bet would one day pay off, many too stayed in the turboprop companies, equally hopeful (and with a greater justification), that their horse would come home first. All other sectors of the QF business enjoy career progression - including mainline flt ops areas - the courtesy however, is specifically denied from individual areas of the regional fleet and a clear segregation exists.
The only justification is that management do this because they can - do not do this between domestic and long haul because it would be a larger call - unfortunately, the regionals are an easy target.
That promotional opportunities exist within mainline in all departments and between regional and mainline in all but Flt Ops, is clearly evidence of this.
This is the crux of the argument - the existence of undervaluation of the area of the business in which we operate in the eyes of the employer.
Unlike life at NJS, where this remains mostly transparent through geographical separation (and on-par salaries) - east coast turboprop operations confront this segregation daily.
Management's actions in this have been callous and are unjustifiable.
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Ultra, another excellent and close to the bone posting.
But let's look at the specifics a little deeper (and with a little less tact than you used):
Here's just one segment of the Qantas Link situation, close to both our hearts.
1. Stalled EBA. This particular group of pilots agreed to participate in QF's "wage cut". In the current mainline EBA ALL QF unionised labour have been 'rewarded' with a 3x3 wage rise for their troubles with NO productivity tradeoff. What was this pilot group offered? 0% ! We are QF employees when they see fit (ie pay cut), but when it comes to sharing the cake "no, you aren't, you are a subsidiary".
2. Continual and repeated excuses from QF as to why they can't attend EBA meetings.
3. They agreed to negotiate on a rate for the Dash8-300. A 38% increase in capacity for no pay-rise?. What did they offer? A couple of yearly increments in pay. Do you think we are stupid? That was offered and accepted by Sunstate years ago. Why should we have to wait 8+ years to be paid for an efficiency that's happening NOW!
4. Goodwill. Yes, that is rapidly running out. This company has survived on goodwill from all parts of their labour force, not just pilots. People are simply refusing to go the extra mile anymore. They refuse to work days off, refuse to extend duty beyond what's required and are taking their award breaks rather than 'the voucher'.
Morale is at the lowest level we've seen in many years! With low morale comes reduced safety. Only time will tell.
5. Pilots are waking up to the fact that we appear to have been deliberately passed over for reasonable career progression.
Yes, we are voting with our feet. Some excellent pilots see their futures outside the QF group as there is very little beyond a Dash8. And the other airlines are capitalising on this. Cathay, Virgin and others see us as a valuable resource. QF will pay for this with increased ongoing training costs. No, they won't get the bonding they want in their log of claims.
6. Reserves. We have been shafted for many years over reserve coverage and callout requirements. Finally a directive has been issued from the union that will have a significant effect on the 'flexibility' and goodwill that has been abused by the company up until now.
All these problems could have been avoided by simply taking care of your staff and treating them with a little dignity and respect.
Take a look at the disastrous manner these idiots have handled the Southern Australia Airlines situation.
The incumbent GM is fairly much a lemon. More of a seat-warmer of the ilk and competence of Neil Shea. We've heard next to nothing from him since he moved down south. BRING BACK BEVAN! At least he knows what he's doing and gave us feedback on a regular basis.
Moral of the story? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
You don't need a uni degree to work that out.
But let's look at the specifics a little deeper (and with a little less tact than you used):
Here's just one segment of the Qantas Link situation, close to both our hearts.
1. Stalled EBA. This particular group of pilots agreed to participate in QF's "wage cut". In the current mainline EBA ALL QF unionised labour have been 'rewarded' with a 3x3 wage rise for their troubles with NO productivity tradeoff. What was this pilot group offered? 0% ! We are QF employees when they see fit (ie pay cut), but when it comes to sharing the cake "no, you aren't, you are a subsidiary".
2. Continual and repeated excuses from QF as to why they can't attend EBA meetings.
3. They agreed to negotiate on a rate for the Dash8-300. A 38% increase in capacity for no pay-rise?. What did they offer? A couple of yearly increments in pay. Do you think we are stupid? That was offered and accepted by Sunstate years ago. Why should we have to wait 8+ years to be paid for an efficiency that's happening NOW!
4. Goodwill. Yes, that is rapidly running out. This company has survived on goodwill from all parts of their labour force, not just pilots. People are simply refusing to go the extra mile anymore. They refuse to work days off, refuse to extend duty beyond what's required and are taking their award breaks rather than 'the voucher'.
Morale is at the lowest level we've seen in many years! With low morale comes reduced safety. Only time will tell.
5. Pilots are waking up to the fact that we appear to have been deliberately passed over for reasonable career progression.
Yes, we are voting with our feet. Some excellent pilots see their futures outside the QF group as there is very little beyond a Dash8. And the other airlines are capitalising on this. Cathay, Virgin and others see us as a valuable resource. QF will pay for this with increased ongoing training costs. No, they won't get the bonding they want in their log of claims.
6. Reserves. We have been shafted for many years over reserve coverage and callout requirements. Finally a directive has been issued from the union that will have a significant effect on the 'flexibility' and goodwill that has been abused by the company up until now.
All these problems could have been avoided by simply taking care of your staff and treating them with a little dignity and respect.
Take a look at the disastrous manner these idiots have handled the Southern Australia Airlines situation.
The incumbent GM is fairly much a lemon. More of a seat-warmer of the ilk and competence of Neil Shea. We've heard next to nothing from him since he moved down south. BRING BACK BEVAN! At least he knows what he's doing and gave us feedback on a regular basis.
Moral of the story? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
You don't need a uni degree to work that out.
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"All animals are equal but some are more equal than others."
Sure I'd like to see progression onto bigger and better pay rates.
BUT at the end of the week I get paid to do a specific job. And thats it. Management don't give a rats a$$ who does the job as long as it gets done at the cheapest price.
Have a nice day.
Sure I'd like to see progression onto bigger and better pay rates.
BUT at the end of the week I get paid to do a specific job. And thats it. Management don't give a rats a$$ who does the job as long as it gets done at the cheapest price.
Have a nice day.
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GT,
can't see NJS getting 717 why reduce the number of Dash 8 companies but increase the number of 717 companies. It would be good if the idea of smaller jets for NJS, if not I am sure that there will be room at Impulse for you guys when all the redundant pilots have slots.
can't see NJS getting 717 why reduce the number of Dash 8 companies but increase the number of 717 companies. It would be good if the idea of smaller jets for NJS, if not I am sure that there will be room at Impulse for you guys when all the redundant pilots have slots.
Doctor Smith,
It's good to have some obvious (internal) backing and thanks for the confidence vote - you summed up the specific problems accurately and more courageously!
Yes, the real risk created by the continued denial of natural justice, is the lowering of morale to the point where safety will be compromised as staff's attention is diverted more and more to the inequality and segregation.
It's increasingly difficult to take the positive attitude route as it's "in our face" constantly.
wawoftam,
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree - but bear the following in mind when you consider us opening our pay packets at the end of each week.
We all get paid to do specific jobs and I'm sure we all give it 110% during our time - the point, as employees of the SAME parent company:
- Air Connex B1900 crews provide 110% and are offered B717 opportunites (often with minimal time-in-service and no accumulation of goodwill),
- QF B747 S/O's offered B767 F/O opportunities, etc.,
- NJS BN2/C406/DH8 crews offered BAe146 opportunities and now it would seem onto B717, a new type, if so deemed by QF management. (This must surely be the best airline contract in the world, where the contractor may provide a new type-rating for the contracted staff. The worldwide trend is to appoint staff already type-rated and experienced).
- All QF (non-Fltops) administrative positions are internally advertised and available to all areas of the business.
- Qlink D8 crews - NIL opportunities and as Doc Smith described well, a critical untimely rebuke from management, through it's failure to even award reasonable salary adjustments through significantly increased productivity and SAA's poor handling, (along with the issues I raised in my first post) .
My point in mentioning the type-rating issue is again, not to bring malice to NJS crew, but to highlight the matter of QF using the cheapest option. I fail to understand that it would be any more expensive to train current employees onto a new type, when the cost would need to be defrayed by the contactor as well. Factoring-in the resignation of Qlink turboprop crews through frustration - there would be a case for no or minimal difference in cost to management.
Given the current frame of mind of the Qlink employee - fairly flexible options would be available to management in training turboprop crews - if cost was the only obstacle - however it isn't and instead WE are perceived as the lepers.
flipside,
As a separate issue - unfortunately, the idea is to retain Airlink and AirConnex in the one administrative pool, as 2 separate operations (and cost bases, supposedly) This would, on paper at least, provide QF man. with the flexibility it needs (read competitive edge) to play one group against the other- a tool they have abused for a considerable time now.
It's good to have some obvious (internal) backing and thanks for the confidence vote - you summed up the specific problems accurately and more courageously!
Yes, the real risk created by the continued denial of natural justice, is the lowering of morale to the point where safety will be compromised as staff's attention is diverted more and more to the inequality and segregation.
It's increasingly difficult to take the positive attitude route as it's "in our face" constantly.
wawoftam,
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree - but bear the following in mind when you consider us opening our pay packets at the end of each week.
We all get paid to do specific jobs and I'm sure we all give it 110% during our time - the point, as employees of the SAME parent company:
- Air Connex B1900 crews provide 110% and are offered B717 opportunites (often with minimal time-in-service and no accumulation of goodwill),
- QF B747 S/O's offered B767 F/O opportunities, etc.,
- NJS BN2/C406/DH8 crews offered BAe146 opportunities and now it would seem onto B717, a new type, if so deemed by QF management. (This must surely be the best airline contract in the world, where the contractor may provide a new type-rating for the contracted staff. The worldwide trend is to appoint staff already type-rated and experienced).
- All QF (non-Fltops) administrative positions are internally advertised and available to all areas of the business.
- Qlink D8 crews - NIL opportunities and as Doc Smith described well, a critical untimely rebuke from management, through it's failure to even award reasonable salary adjustments through significantly increased productivity and SAA's poor handling, (along with the issues I raised in my first post) .
My point in mentioning the type-rating issue is again, not to bring malice to NJS crew, but to highlight the matter of QF using the cheapest option. I fail to understand that it would be any more expensive to train current employees onto a new type, when the cost would need to be defrayed by the contactor as well. Factoring-in the resignation of Qlink turboprop crews through frustration - there would be a case for no or minimal difference in cost to management.
Given the current frame of mind of the Qlink employee - fairly flexible options would be available to management in training turboprop crews - if cost was the only obstacle - however it isn't and instead WE are perceived as the lepers.
flipside,
As a separate issue - unfortunately, the idea is to retain Airlink and AirConnex in the one administrative pool, as 2 separate operations (and cost bases, supposedly) This would, on paper at least, provide QF man. with the flexibility it needs (read competitive edge) to play one group against the other- a tool they have abused for a considerable time now.
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AA,
a small but significant correction.
NJS or more correctly SA pilots are not offered progression onto any NJS aircraft infact they must resign and apply from the outside.
When pilots joined all these companies they should have been aware of the ability to progress onto larger types, and there fore new exactly what they were doing.
a small but significant correction.
NJS or more correctly SA pilots are not offered progression onto any NJS aircraft infact they must resign and apply from the outside.
When pilots joined all these companies they should have been aware of the ability to progress onto larger types, and there fore new exactly what they were doing.
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Ultra and Dr Smith
Excellent posts! The question is “where to now?”.
QF has been shafting its Regionals for the best part of 10 years and there doesn’t appear to be a let up. I think it’s about time we did something. Of course whatever we do, we have to do as a unified group or else QF will just use one group against the other (which it looks like they are doing). Exactly what to do I’m not sure, any suggestions out there?
Excellent posts! The question is “where to now?”.
QF has been shafting its Regionals for the best part of 10 years and there doesn’t appear to be a let up. I think it’s about time we did something. Of course whatever we do, we have to do as a unified group or else QF will just use one group against the other (which it looks like they are doing). Exactly what to do I’m not sure, any suggestions out there?
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Last edited by spinout; 30th May 2002 at 23:47.
Doctor Smith - In your post you stated-
You appear to be mis-informed as in the last mainline (longhaul) EBA there was no wage rise and the mainline (shorthaul) EBA is currently being negotiated.
The way that I see it, we are all negotiating with the same management and therefore should be united and supportive of each other rather than slinging off at each other. I hope that QF management's plans are for significant expansion so that many more pilots can realise secure jobs.
1. Stalled EBA. This particular group of pilots agreed to participate in QF's "wage cut". In the current mainline EBA ALL QF unionised labour have been 'rewarded' with a 3x3 wage rise for their troubles with NO productivity tradeoff.
The way that I see it, we are all negotiating with the same management and therefore should be united and supportive of each other rather than slinging off at each other. I hope that QF management's plans are for significant expansion so that many more pilots can realise secure jobs.
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The first thing that has to happen is that the different pilot groups HAVE to get together as a single group. They will not get anywhere unless they do so.
Many are concerned that the AFAP is not doing it's job as they have conflicting interests (??) to represent (viz Southern, Eastern, Impulse etc) and there is open talk again of AIPA. Certainly many believe that AIPA might well do a better job of getting the group together and sorting out a deal with QF.
Until this is done, you can bet that the mismanagement of QF in handling the QLink regionals will continue and it will be the staff that will be screwed at the end of the day. Many have worked their collective buts off for many years for the QF Empire and to be treated the way they are now is making many just plain ashamed to be part of such an icon.
Many are concerned that the AFAP is not doing it's job as they have conflicting interests (??) to represent (viz Southern, Eastern, Impulse etc) and there is open talk again of AIPA. Certainly many believe that AIPA might well do a better job of getting the group together and sorting out a deal with QF.
Until this is done, you can bet that the mismanagement of QF in handling the QLink regionals will continue and it will be the staff that will be screwed at the end of the day. Many have worked their collective buts off for many years for the QF Empire and to be treated the way they are now is making many just plain ashamed to be part of such an icon.