NJS-717s ?
Wing_Nut
Why do you talk down the value of pilots on the open market - QF pilots are not paid outrageous wages. They are paid a fair rate for the revenue returned by the aircraft types they fly and if you compare their rates with other international airlines then they look positively cheap. If you don't have pilot jobs with decent remuneration available in Australia then there will be a significant reduction in the number of young people prepared to risk investing $50,000+ in gaining the necessary qualifications to attain these jobs. Look at other high paying professions - do they have to fork out that much money to get their qualifications.
Back to the topic - Rationalisation of the QL operation is the only way to go as far as competing with the Virgin Blue operation. I only wish that management could look after their employees futures whilst they rationalise.
Why do you talk down the value of pilots on the open market - QF pilots are not paid outrageous wages. They are paid a fair rate for the revenue returned by the aircraft types they fly and if you compare their rates with other international airlines then they look positively cheap. If you don't have pilot jobs with decent remuneration available in Australia then there will be a significant reduction in the number of young people prepared to risk investing $50,000+ in gaining the necessary qualifications to attain these jobs. Look at other high paying professions - do they have to fork out that much money to get their qualifications.
Back to the topic - Rationalisation of the QL operation is the only way to go as far as competing with the Virgin Blue operation. I only wish that management could look after their employees futures whilst they rationalise.
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As Pimp daddy says, there will only be one Dash 8 operator and one 717 operator by 2004.
Unfortunately, and this is not a critisism or bagging of anyone, all 146 ops were put on runs that Qantas had no way of making money on using 737's, and as it has turned out the 146's don't make money either. They have been very economical for Qantas on these routes, but because of the routes they are on, the only "regional operations" that consistently made a profit up until the ansett collapse were Eastern and Sunstate.
The so called "regional manager" put in charge of the review of regional operations, has already been given the bullet from the project, for his appalling handling of the situation.
To keep Qantaslink going, as an overall profitable operation, some sort of rationalisation was needed, but the managers have a lot to answer for in the handling of it.
Unfortunately, and this is not a critisism or bagging of anyone, all 146 ops were put on runs that Qantas had no way of making money on using 737's, and as it has turned out the 146's don't make money either. They have been very economical for Qantas on these routes, but because of the routes they are on, the only "regional operations" that consistently made a profit up until the ansett collapse were Eastern and Sunstate.
The so called "regional manager" put in charge of the review of regional operations, has already been given the bullet from the project, for his appalling handling of the situation.
To keep Qantaslink going, as an overall profitable operation, some sort of rationalisation was needed, but the managers have a lot to answer for in the handling of it.
'How's it hangin', WAY WAY out mate! FACT 1. Airlink Nett profit for fiscal year ending 2000 24million AUD. FACT 2. First year Airlink exceeded the 1 million pax carried figure. Since then reliability dispatch figures have improved, last year better than QF 737 ( before new aircraft aquisition ) and always better than 717 fleet. NJS contract operation will be around a long time yet because it's leaner and certainly meaner.
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Sorry to take the rose coloured glasses off the likes of 'The Baron',
but it seems that Impulse will be receiving extra 717's by the years end.From where i am sitting, currently working on new routes,it seems that the possibility of NJS operating the 717 are slim,and, i might add, the number of aircraft to be operated are quite impressive.
but it seems that Impulse will be receiving extra 717's by the years end.From where i am sitting, currently working on new routes,it seems that the possibility of NJS operating the 717 are slim,and, i might add, the number of aircraft to be operated are quite impressive.
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If Impulse get the extra 717s - and there are rumblings about a total fleet of 40 - then surely there'd be no reason why either SAA or NJS pilots shouldn't get a chance to fly them?
Grandpa Aerotart
djembe56...I can see the mechanism that would give SAA chaps/chapesses some sort of right of passage onto the bottom of the Qlink 717 roster....but NJS? Well if they want to apply to Qlink 717...and if successful resign from NJS (smart move IMHO)....but otherwise?
Remember that Qlink 146 crews, a great bunch of guys/girls by the way, are employees of NJS....a contract service provider to QF.
Chuck.
Remember that Qlink 146 crews, a great bunch of guys/girls by the way, are employees of NJS....a contract service provider to QF.
Chuck.
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emergencybus my dear friend,
under what do you class as laid off?
From my info, laid off means termination of employment?
If you are told to pack your things and escorted from the place of employment, wouldn't that count? Or if you are told that if you do not leave immediatly further action will be taken as was the case within the hagar, doesnt that count?
Get out from under the rock in which you hide and smell the roses.
under what do you class as laid off?
From my info, laid off means termination of employment?
If you are told to pack your things and escorted from the place of employment, wouldn't that count? Or if you are told that if you do not leave immediatly further action will be taken as was the case within the hagar, doesnt that count?
Get out from under the rock in which you hide and smell the roses.
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that is a rediculous comparison.
being terminated is a completely different scenario to being layed off due lack of work.
Any company that didn't have the unfortunate job of having to terminate some body during their time would either be extremely lucky or totally inefficient.
Before you start I don't know the circunstances of there termination and yes it may or may not have been fair but it is still miles away from being layed off.
being terminated is a completely different scenario to being layed off due lack of work.
Any company that didn't have the unfortunate job of having to terminate some body during their time would either be extremely lucky or totally inefficient.
Before you start I don't know the circunstances of there termination and yes it may or may not have been fair but it is still miles away from being layed off.
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djembe56
40 ? 40 ?
That is the first I have heard of 40!
If what you say becomes fact then I would say that almost all Impulse,SAA and NJS pilots would have a look in and NJS and SAA 146 skippers would most probably have a look at direct entry commands at Impulse.
Hopefully it comes to pass and nobody has to miss out.
40 ? 40 ?
That is the first I have heard of 40!
If what you say becomes fact then I would say that almost all Impulse,SAA and NJS pilots would have a look in and NJS and SAA 146 skippers would most probably have a look at direct entry commands at Impulse.
Hopefully it comes to pass and nobody has to miss out.
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mppgf,
40 is the figure doing the rounds at the moment. Of course that figure may have derived from the assumption that the NJS 146s will be replaced with 717s. The other whisper is that they're to replace some of the 737-300s.
I'm sure there are a lot of people out there with their fingers crossed (QF domestic excluded).
40 is the figure doing the rounds at the moment. Of course that figure may have derived from the assumption that the NJS 146s will be replaced with 717s. The other whisper is that they're to replace some of the 737-300s.
I'm sure there are a lot of people out there with their fingers crossed (QF domestic excluded).
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In all the to-ing and fro-ing here I think you guys have missed one important point, Qantas will give the 717s to whoever they please. As far as I am aware it is not up to Impulse who flies what, although reading some of the posts you would'nt know it.
It is amazing how arrogant some of the Impulse pilots have gotten in such a short time, keep it up and you'll qualify as a 400 LHP.
You may learn, over time, that QF don't give a s**t about you or any of the others ( eg. Southern ) the only thing that matters is the bottom line, and at the moment you are lucky enough to be deemed healthy toward that bottom line. ( so to, by the way, are NJS )
It is amazing how arrogant some of the Impulse pilots have gotten in such a short time, keep it up and you'll qualify as a 400 LHP.
You may learn, over time, that QF don't give a s**t about you or any of the others ( eg. Southern ) the only thing that matters is the bottom line, and at the moment you are lucky enough to be deemed healthy toward that bottom line. ( so to, by the way, are NJS )
You know, it continues to amaze me how inconsidered and self-serving the personal philosophies of some members of our pilot fraternity, remain.
How does anyone from NJS feel a justifiable entitlement to automatic rights to B717 flying?
It was always reasonable for the "pre-Impulse, non-NJS" Qantaslink (turboprop fleet) employees to one-day expect some kind of improvement in their promotional opportunity lot, offered them by QF.
This is a fair expectation and perfectly nomal within the bounds of industry practice, locally and overseas and a frequent comment made by reasonably- objective industry observers.
Since the whimsical decision to purchase Impulse was undertaken by QF (rather than allowing the company to inevitably fail and resumption of the pieces - this is NOT a personal slant at Impulse, it could have been either Brand X or Y) plus the effects of the Ansett collapse, the Qantaslink regionals of SUN, SAA and EAA have been subjected to a gradual and obvious downgrading of conditions and expectations. QF have unashamedly displayed their opinion of the turboprop Regionals' in terms of disposability or insignificance in their "grand plan".
Southern operations were affected immediately by the Impulse decision: First it was the closure of Launceston base and transferral of staff to Canberra. Now, of course, the whole operation is to be disbanded into a completely different form in the name of administrative job efficiencies with no real solution offered to the disenfranchised flight crews.
In Eastern's case, to accommodate the sudden requirement for aircraft parking at Sydney, (due to mainline and Impulse expansion), Eastern exclusive parking has been progressively reduced at the main terminal from an original 12 bays to only 2. Parking has been moved to a remote and makeshift facility, reminiscent of GA days, distant from the main terminal and accessible only by bus.
Within the terminal area, all departures, - 000's of pax/day - are crammed through a single departure lounge with many pax forced to stand due lack of seating, while mainline departure lounges 1-17 lie idle for large periods of the day.
The detrimental effect on schedules, customer service, public perception, working conditions and obviously staff morale, has been significant. To rub salt into an already deep wound, an expectation from QF of a seamless sharing of these facilities with ex-Impulse staff, once their rival and the main contributor to their ills.A further insult came when the Eastern general manager, an excellent administrator and progressive individual, responsible for much of their former gains, was shifted to management of the newly owned Impulse.
And finally, despite record loadings and staff service beyond duty, all of this is coupled to the failure by QF to recognise identifiable productivity increases in the Dash 8-300 flying for Sunstate and Eastern - their refusal to award REASONABLE salary increases in recognition of work under difficult circumstances, during the current round of EBA negotiaions.
In summary, it's been a terrible 12 months for the Qantaslink Regionals and it becomes perfectly understandable, even to the most unpassioned individual, that talk of 717's to NJS is undeserved and inappropriate.
Yes - their staff are still employed, when others have lost jobs. Yes - they maintain a reasonable sense of job security during this uncertain time.
There is a certain sense of disbelief and obscenity, however, that against the backdrop of all of the above, another opportunity to further their careers and expectations, is again robbed by a contractor organisation - when the cost benefits to QF in doing so are minimal.
How does anyone from NJS feel a justifiable entitlement to automatic rights to B717 flying?
It was always reasonable for the "pre-Impulse, non-NJS" Qantaslink (turboprop fleet) employees to one-day expect some kind of improvement in their promotional opportunity lot, offered them by QF.
This is a fair expectation and perfectly nomal within the bounds of industry practice, locally and overseas and a frequent comment made by reasonably- objective industry observers.
Since the whimsical decision to purchase Impulse was undertaken by QF (rather than allowing the company to inevitably fail and resumption of the pieces - this is NOT a personal slant at Impulse, it could have been either Brand X or Y) plus the effects of the Ansett collapse, the Qantaslink regionals of SUN, SAA and EAA have been subjected to a gradual and obvious downgrading of conditions and expectations. QF have unashamedly displayed their opinion of the turboprop Regionals' in terms of disposability or insignificance in their "grand plan".
Southern operations were affected immediately by the Impulse decision: First it was the closure of Launceston base and transferral of staff to Canberra. Now, of course, the whole operation is to be disbanded into a completely different form in the name of administrative job efficiencies with no real solution offered to the disenfranchised flight crews.
In Eastern's case, to accommodate the sudden requirement for aircraft parking at Sydney, (due to mainline and Impulse expansion), Eastern exclusive parking has been progressively reduced at the main terminal from an original 12 bays to only 2. Parking has been moved to a remote and makeshift facility, reminiscent of GA days, distant from the main terminal and accessible only by bus.
Within the terminal area, all departures, - 000's of pax/day - are crammed through a single departure lounge with many pax forced to stand due lack of seating, while mainline departure lounges 1-17 lie idle for large periods of the day.
The detrimental effect on schedules, customer service, public perception, working conditions and obviously staff morale, has been significant. To rub salt into an already deep wound, an expectation from QF of a seamless sharing of these facilities with ex-Impulse staff, once their rival and the main contributor to their ills.A further insult came when the Eastern general manager, an excellent administrator and progressive individual, responsible for much of their former gains, was shifted to management of the newly owned Impulse.
And finally, despite record loadings and staff service beyond duty, all of this is coupled to the failure by QF to recognise identifiable productivity increases in the Dash 8-300 flying for Sunstate and Eastern - their refusal to award REASONABLE salary increases in recognition of work under difficult circumstances, during the current round of EBA negotiaions.
In summary, it's been a terrible 12 months for the Qantaslink Regionals and it becomes perfectly understandable, even to the most unpassioned individual, that talk of 717's to NJS is undeserved and inappropriate.
Yes - their staff are still employed, when others have lost jobs. Yes - they maintain a reasonable sense of job security during this uncertain time.
There is a certain sense of disbelief and obscenity, however, that against the backdrop of all of the above, another opportunity to further their careers and expectations, is again robbed by a contractor organisation - when the cost benefits to QF in doing so are minimal.
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Ultra,
a very well written post.
However NJS employees are no less deserved of job security.
It is not NJS employees on here blowing there own trumpets it appears to be the new boys on the QF regional block.
I suspect all the NJS employees want is job security like everybody else.
There must be a reason that the other regionals were over looked for jets, maybe you should sit back and address that issue.
Finally do you remember were most of the NJS Captains came from??
a very well written post.
However NJS employees are no less deserved of job security.
It is not NJS employees on here blowing there own trumpets it appears to be the new boys on the QF regional block.
I suspect all the NJS employees want is job security like everybody else.
There must be a reason that the other regionals were over looked for jets, maybe you should sit back and address that issue.
Finally do you remember were most of the NJS Captains came from??
Bottums Up
Ultra,
Airlink is also a wholly owned Qantas subsidiary, they just don't own/lease their own aircraft.
My gut feeling is that Qantas entered into an agreement with Impulse because they saw the Ansett writing on the wall and wanted to position themselves for the future.
Perhaps if Gerry hadn't started Impulse Jets, your scenario of bigger and better for Eastern & Sunnies might have come true. Perhaps it wouldn't.
We all want bigger and better and seem to think that just because we work for company x, we deserve it. The reality is, IMO, that primarily Airlines are there to make money by serving the travelling pubic, not to give us shiny new machines and career opportunities such as big shiny new jets.
I agree that not to give employees some progression is not good for morale, but I've never believed that Sunstate or Eastern would get jets and I've observed both with various levels of interest for over 15 years. Perhaps the expectation of "some sort of improvement in promotional opportunity" was wishful rather than realistic.
Personally I don't think that any one group in the QF family has any more right to 717s than another, nor do they have less right.
Airlink is also a wholly owned Qantas subsidiary, they just don't own/lease their own aircraft.
My gut feeling is that Qantas entered into an agreement with Impulse because they saw the Ansett writing on the wall and wanted to position themselves for the future.
Perhaps if Gerry hadn't started Impulse Jets, your scenario of bigger and better for Eastern & Sunnies might have come true. Perhaps it wouldn't.
We all want bigger and better and seem to think that just because we work for company x, we deserve it. The reality is, IMO, that primarily Airlines are there to make money by serving the travelling pubic, not to give us shiny new machines and career opportunities such as big shiny new jets.
I agree that not to give employees some progression is not good for morale, but I've never believed that Sunstate or Eastern would get jets and I've observed both with various levels of interest for over 15 years. Perhaps the expectation of "some sort of improvement in promotional opportunity" was wishful rather than realistic.
Personally I don't think that any one group in the QF family has any more right to 717s than another, nor do they have less right.
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I hope eventually all the guys that are employed by subsidaries of Qantas come to the realisation that bickering amongst yourselves only undermines your position (get together and make things better) do you really think pilots of the other organisations have any more control than you about what Qantas does with them. It is a concern to see pilots having a go at each other(and not just on this forum), when really we are not the decision makers
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I'm with stupid
I think there is one word too many in your user name and it's not I'm or stupid!
I have read through the previous posts and cannot see where any Impulse crew have any made arrogant statements or made any statements as to who should be flying any new 717's.
Anyway, how do you know who works for Impulse ? This is an anonymous forum.As for blowing their own horns Balinda please show one example of this.
I know for a fact that most Impulse guys do not want to see any pilot in this country lose their job.They like most other normal people are aware that pilots are people and generalising about people based on who they work for is STUPID!
If NJS gets 717's then good on them.I, like a lot of other people cannot see it happening but it is Qantas's train set and as has been said before they will do what they want.
If NJS don't and this latest rumour of 40 actually happens then as I said in my last post I'm sure there would be direct entry commands for people who have jet command experience ie: NJS and SAA 146 skippers.Whatever happens the amount of flying that is being done is probably going to increase regardless of who is doing it so hopefully noone misses out.
I think there is one word too many in your user name and it's not I'm or stupid!
I have read through the previous posts and cannot see where any Impulse crew have any made arrogant statements or made any statements as to who should be flying any new 717's.
Anyway, how do you know who works for Impulse ? This is an anonymous forum.As for blowing their own horns Balinda please show one example of this.
I know for a fact that most Impulse guys do not want to see any pilot in this country lose their job.They like most other normal people are aware that pilots are people and generalising about people based on who they work for is STUPID!
If NJS gets 717's then good on them.I, like a lot of other people cannot see it happening but it is Qantas's train set and as has been said before they will do what they want.
If NJS don't and this latest rumour of 40 actually happens then as I said in my last post I'm sure there would be direct entry commands for people who have jet command experience ie: NJS and SAA 146 skippers.Whatever happens the amount of flying that is being done is probably going to increase regardless of who is doing it so hopefully noone misses out.
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I fly for NJS and I would hope that the following comments would be backed up by the majority of pilots at NJS.
The first post in this thread was a reprint of an article written by Mr Geoffrey Thomas. Over here in the west, his articles are usually scoffed at when he writes of “rumours” about NJS. His articles, containing phrases like "insiders at Qantas report..." read like a gossip column. Sure we have the odd "dreamer" at NJS that salivates at the thought that such gossip might become a reality, but 99% just laugh it off.
The pilots at NJS know they are "just contractors" and we don't need to be reminded of the fact. We do however, have something in common with all Qantaslink pilots...we turn up to work and do the best job we can for our employer (which for us is still Qantas, though indirectly). As contractors we live with far more uncertainty than anyone else in the Qantaslink group, but that is just part of life at NJS. We do not have or expect “rights” to any flying or new equipment that may come along, we just strap on whatever is parked outside and do our best to deliver the product as requested.
NJS pilots are saddened buy the way the Southern pilots have been treated. Why? Because not only are they fellow pilots in the same industry, but the whole situation shows the lack of regard QF has for its own staff. If they can so easily shut down the Southern jet operation and not look after those displaced, what hope is there for any consideration for NJS staff? Clearly none.
Who knows how long NJS will remain a contractor? None of us at NJS know that’s for sure.
If you are one of the many Qantaslink pilots who likes to slang off at your fellow regional colleagues, it’s time you stopped jumping up and down about what you think you deserve in front of someone else. Qantas sure doesn’t care if you never get to fly a shiny 717. If they come your way, good luck to you. If they don’t, get off you’re a#se and apply to Virgin. In the meantime be thankful you have a job.
The first post in this thread was a reprint of an article written by Mr Geoffrey Thomas. Over here in the west, his articles are usually scoffed at when he writes of “rumours” about NJS. His articles, containing phrases like "insiders at Qantas report..." read like a gossip column. Sure we have the odd "dreamer" at NJS that salivates at the thought that such gossip might become a reality, but 99% just laugh it off.
The pilots at NJS know they are "just contractors" and we don't need to be reminded of the fact. We do however, have something in common with all Qantaslink pilots...we turn up to work and do the best job we can for our employer (which for us is still Qantas, though indirectly). As contractors we live with far more uncertainty than anyone else in the Qantaslink group, but that is just part of life at NJS. We do not have or expect “rights” to any flying or new equipment that may come along, we just strap on whatever is parked outside and do our best to deliver the product as requested.
NJS pilots are saddened buy the way the Southern pilots have been treated. Why? Because not only are they fellow pilots in the same industry, but the whole situation shows the lack of regard QF has for its own staff. If they can so easily shut down the Southern jet operation and not look after those displaced, what hope is there for any consideration for NJS staff? Clearly none.
Who knows how long NJS will remain a contractor? None of us at NJS know that’s for sure.
If you are one of the many Qantaslink pilots who likes to slang off at your fellow regional colleagues, it’s time you stopped jumping up and down about what you think you deserve in front of someone else. Qantas sure doesn’t care if you never get to fly a shiny 717. If they come your way, good luck to you. If they don’t, get off you’re a#se and apply to Virgin. In the meantime be thankful you have a job.