Australian Airlines crewed by ????
Nunc est bibendum
What they are saying is that if you get a job with AA as a flight attendant that you won't be able to just transfer across with super, long service, seniorority etc accruing.
As for the pilot deals, I'm led to believe that it is a leave without pay sort of deal from QF but with super and LSL accruing as per normal. Pay and conditions as per AA on a fixed term period as you negotiate with the Aussie.
After that, you return to wherever your QF seniorority number allows you to go to or sign on again with Australian. Also led to believe that there is no transferring between bases during your contract period but you may be able to transfer at the end of your period at the base you signed on for in the first instance. (that is assuming that they open another pilot base!)
Flight Attendants are a whole seperate deal and no one that I've spoken to knows the first thing about the F/A deal or what is being negotatied.
Whilst anything is possible, I don't think Aussie would take just some crews in the first instance and then take contracters on unless they don't get enough crews internally. IF that were the case, I'm assuming that they would still have a QF seniorority number but wouldn't be able to come back from Aussie to QF as skippers for about 10 years or so at current promotion rates.
As for the pilot deals, I'm led to believe that it is a leave without pay sort of deal from QF but with super and LSL accruing as per normal. Pay and conditions as per AA on a fixed term period as you negotiate with the Aussie.
After that, you return to wherever your QF seniorority number allows you to go to or sign on again with Australian. Also led to believe that there is no transferring between bases during your contract period but you may be able to transfer at the end of your period at the base you signed on for in the first instance. (that is assuming that they open another pilot base!)
Flight Attendants are a whole seperate deal and no one that I've spoken to knows the first thing about the F/A deal or what is being negotatied.
Whilst anything is possible, I don't think Aussie would take just some crews in the first instance and then take contracters on unless they don't get enough crews internally. IF that were the case, I'm assuming that they would still have a QF seniorority number but wouldn't be able to come back from Aussie to QF as skippers for about 10 years or so at current promotion rates.
Aah Mr McGoo you've done it again
My good man,
Yes Qantas are as you say not buying AWAS per say, but they are buying the operation (pilots) in NZ. The new company name was reported as AWAS OPERATIONS, the aircraft still belonging to the original AWAS.
My good man,
Yes Qantas are as you say not buying AWAS per say, but they are buying the operation (pilots) in NZ. The new company name was reported as AWAS OPERATIONS, the aircraft still belonging to the original AWAS.
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Hi Keg,
Thanks for your response! With the start date in Oct and major recruitment to commence in the next 6-8 weeks. All will be revealed soon, I suppose.
Do you know what changes to the industrial relations rules there will be - rest periods, lengths of duty, sectors flown? (engage left autopilot?)
Have a great day.......
Thanks for your response! With the start date in Oct and major recruitment to commence in the next 6-8 weeks. All will be revealed soon, I suppose.
Do you know what changes to the industrial relations rules there will be - rest periods, lengths of duty, sectors flown? (engage left autopilot?)
Have a great day.......
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Mud Skipper,
I think you will find the new company name is
Australian Wetleasing Operations (formally Ansett Worldwide)and the acquisition date by Australian Regional Airlines is the 28 april.
I think you will find the new company name is
Australian Wetleasing Operations (formally Ansett Worldwide)and the acquisition date by Australian Regional Airlines is the 28 april.
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Mr McGoo - spot on.
Have links to AWAS and no deal has been done as quite yet to purchase the AWAS wet lease operation, but apparently QF are interested in purchasing the operation as a separate entity and calling it 'Qantas Wet Lease Operations" or words to that effect in the near future.
The pilots will be employed under contract only (for the 2 B767-300's in Oz and the 4 B737-300's in NZ) for as long as QF needs their services.
The other interesting thing is that to satisfy the NZ authorities the operation is based in NZ the NZ pilots may have to be paid in $NZ and not $AUD.
This was part of the reason for removal of the pilots from the Carlton Hotel in Auckland and the removal/reduction the their per diems (apart from the cost savings of course).
The fact that the aircraft are registered in Oz doesnt seem to matter at this stage.
The advantage here is owning an entirely different AOC and being able to control the operation.
The disadvantage is for the ground operations/support staff if this operation becomes a deal because their jobs may be at risk.
As far as crewing Australian Airlines this is to be done by Qantas pilots alone - that much is a certainty.
The Qantas pilots and Flt Att's have come to a deal with the company - this is fact otherwise the news conference would not have gone ahead about Australian Airlines start date etc.
Have links to AWAS and no deal has been done as quite yet to purchase the AWAS wet lease operation, but apparently QF are interested in purchasing the operation as a separate entity and calling it 'Qantas Wet Lease Operations" or words to that effect in the near future.
The pilots will be employed under contract only (for the 2 B767-300's in Oz and the 4 B737-300's in NZ) for as long as QF needs their services.
The other interesting thing is that to satisfy the NZ authorities the operation is based in NZ the NZ pilots may have to be paid in $NZ and not $AUD.
This was part of the reason for removal of the pilots from the Carlton Hotel in Auckland and the removal/reduction the their per diems (apart from the cost savings of course).
The fact that the aircraft are registered in Oz doesnt seem to matter at this stage.
The advantage here is owning an entirely different AOC and being able to control the operation.
The disadvantage is for the ground operations/support staff if this operation becomes a deal because their jobs may be at risk.
As far as crewing Australian Airlines this is to be done by Qantas pilots alone - that much is a certainty.
The Qantas pilots and Flt Att's have come to a deal with the company - this is fact otherwise the news conference would not have gone ahead about Australian Airlines start date etc.
Nunc est bibendum
Any new news?
No, because there is nothing more to tell.
Some find it hard to believe that both sides are negotiating in good faith over this one and that there are no obstacles on the horizon.
I'm not sure why so many believe that QF drivers won't be crewing this and even more unsure as to why so many people seem to delight in this 'possibility'.
Broad pay and conditions have been laid down, the nitty gritty is still in negotiation but again, all sides expect to reach agreement. Briefings are occuring for crews on some days of the week etc, etc, etc.
Nominations are called for in the next month or so. So far, I've found no shortage of blokes willing to go and have a look.
Some find it hard to believe that both sides are negotiating in good faith over this one and that there are no obstacles on the horizon.
I'm not sure why so many believe that QF drivers won't be crewing this and even more unsure as to why so many people seem to delight in this 'possibility'.
Broad pay and conditions have been laid down, the nitty gritty is still in negotiation but again, all sides expect to reach agreement. Briefings are occuring for crews on some days of the week etc, etc, etc.
Nominations are called for in the next month or so. So far, I've found no shortage of blokes willing to go and have a look.
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I am not a Pilot, so do not know the legal position.
However now that Qantas own the AWAS AOC, doesn't that mean in effect at least, that the AWAS Pilots and other staff are now working for Qantas anyway?
However now that Qantas own the AWAS AOC, doesn't that mean in effect at least, that the AWAS Pilots and other staff are now working for Qantas anyway?
Nunc est bibendum
TR, don't think so but I think that is because the AWAS AOC is 'owned' by a seperate company than QF.
Similar to QF owning Eastern, Sunstate et al but they have thejr own AOCs and the staff don't work for QF.
Similar to QF owning Eastern, Sunstate et al but they have thejr own AOCs and the staff don't work for QF.
Last edited by Keg; 1st May 2002 at 13:49.
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VH-BZI and NOA are owned by Nordstrom Pty Ltd, address is the AN building in Melbourne. Along with other AWAS acft they have disappeared and reappeared on the AUS register over a number of years of flying for Air Vietnam and others. In fact I am sure Nordstrom have also recruited crews to fly AWAS acft since the dreaded year **89. Do Nordstrom own the local AWAS AOC? Perhaps this mean QF have bought Nordstrom from Smith Barney, the owners of AWAS? This would better explain the purchase of the operating company, rather than saying QF have bought AWAS. They have actually bought one of it's subsidiaries.
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Some facts
Just to clarify some misconceptions
Morgan Stanley Group sold the wetleasing portion of AWAS, known as AWOPs (previously Nordstress) to Qantas owned Australian Regional on the 28th April.
All the a/c in NZ and Oz are now dry leased to Australian Wetleasing Operations Ltd. (AWOPs) who are operating as a seperate entity. AWOPs holds the AOC
The NZ operation is to be localised with its own NZ AOC and management.
The Oz operation will continue for as long as QF requires it. The current AWOPs staff have a new nine month contract.
Some observations
QF now has the use of a seperate worldwide AOC which is to have the NZ operation seperated. Why?
The Oz operation had a dedicated QF crew. As of June all QF crew will be trained in the differences (admittedly minor but required due to the seperate AOC) Why?
The guys I know at AWOPs are under no illusion as to their future. Short term contracts and nothing else at this stage.
Some guessing
AWOPs will be here only as long as QF wants them. That could be months or years but a worldwide AOC is difficult to obtain (AN didn't have one) and would not easily be given away.
The changes that QF is making within AWOPs must be for a reason. I dont know why. Does anyone?
Morgan Stanley Group sold the wetleasing portion of AWAS, known as AWOPs (previously Nordstress) to Qantas owned Australian Regional on the 28th April.
All the a/c in NZ and Oz are now dry leased to Australian Wetleasing Operations Ltd. (AWOPs) who are operating as a seperate entity. AWOPs holds the AOC
The NZ operation is to be localised with its own NZ AOC and management.
The Oz operation will continue for as long as QF requires it. The current AWOPs staff have a new nine month contract.
Some observations
QF now has the use of a seperate worldwide AOC which is to have the NZ operation seperated. Why?
The Oz operation had a dedicated QF crew. As of June all QF crew will be trained in the differences (admittedly minor but required due to the seperate AOC) Why?
The guys I know at AWOPs are under no illusion as to their future. Short term contracts and nothing else at this stage.
Some guessing
AWOPs will be here only as long as QF wants them. That could be months or years but a worldwide AOC is difficult to obtain (AN didn't have one) and would not easily be given away.
The changes that QF is making within AWOPs must be for a reason. I dont know why. Does anyone?
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been waiting for this discussion with great anticipation.....just remember the past, and the folks who gave it all up to make airline flying in Aust. a better place for all.....and never deny a man his right to a livelihood. for better or for worse....and believe me there is a "worse" because we lived it....you reap what you sow,.... so go ahead and plant your fields of sh%#...don.t whine when you harvest it.
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Keg,
No worries.
I think I will keep right out of this, it is getting messy.
Just I was told by someone that should know, that the original AWAS AOC was sold directly to Qantas?
I apologise IF this is not true, but my source in this is normally 100% right.
Best regards,
TR.
No worries.
I think I will keep right out of this, it is getting messy.
Just I was told by someone that should know, that the original AWAS AOC was sold directly to Qantas?
I apologise IF this is not true, but my source in this is normally 100% right.
Best regards,
TR.
Nunc est bibendum
Blue Belly, I've spoken personally to about a dozen blokes (Captains) who are seriously considering making the leap.
Haven't had the opportunity to speak to many F/Os about it but anecdotal evidence again suggests that they'll have no problems.
Stand by to be killed in the rush if/when the southern base opens up in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisgane!
Haven't had the opportunity to speak to many F/Os about it but anecdotal evidence again suggests that they'll have no problems.
Stand by to be killed in the rush if/when the southern base opens up in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisgane!
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Hot Gen
I have heard from two seperate sources that AWOPs is to be responsible for the crewing of Australian Airlines. Both Tech and Cabin Crew
AWOPs already have in place EBAs for Tech and Cabin crew.
First offers will go the existing AWOPs drivers then QF rated pilots willing to take a two year secondment on AWOPs EBA ( keeping their QF seniority), then new hires employed by AWOPs.
It will be a similar deal with the cabin crew.
The cabin crew will be slightly better off due to an FAAA negotiated AWOPS EBA. The Tech crew EBA will only suit QF F/Os that can get in as Capts with AA (AWOPs minimum requirements to apply due to AOC requirements). F/O to F/O or Capt. to Capt secondments would incur $30-50,000 penalities for the move to CNS.
The second base is more likely to be OOL and a long way off at that.
All will be revealed on the 03JUN02.
AWOPs already have in place EBAs for Tech and Cabin crew.
First offers will go the existing AWOPs drivers then QF rated pilots willing to take a two year secondment on AWOPs EBA ( keeping their QF seniority), then new hires employed by AWOPs.
It will be a similar deal with the cabin crew.
The cabin crew will be slightly better off due to an FAAA negotiated AWOPS EBA. The Tech crew EBA will only suit QF F/Os that can get in as Capts with AA (AWOPs minimum requirements to apply due to AOC requirements). F/O to F/O or Capt. to Capt secondments would incur $30-50,000 penalities for the move to CNS.
The second base is more likely to be OOL and a long way off at that.
All will be revealed on the 03JUN02.