Australian Airlines crewed by ????
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so it really seems that nothing is settled in this matter.....
It will be interesting to see what the QF pilots do, how they adjust to the brave new world in aviation!
It will be interesting to see what the QF pilots do, how they adjust to the brave new world in aviation!
Nunc est bibendum
If you read between the lines it is more settled than some members are giving credit for.
It is definately a brave new world but i'm pretty sure the QF crews are adapting pretty well.
It comes down to pretty effective representation over the last few years by our AIPA executive. G'day Chris, Killer et al.
It is definately a brave new world but i'm pretty sure the QF crews are adapting pretty well.
It comes down to pretty effective representation over the last few years by our AIPA executive. G'day Chris, Killer et al.
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You may well be correct, however I have not yet been able to find and evidence to support what you say. Is it that QF management may just be using AIPA to test their proposed labour structure?
Looking at it from a commercial viewpoint, ( a management perspective) I believe they would like to generate a hassle-free, lean-mean labour culture. I don't see that taking QF tech crew in any form with their culture of opulence will achieve that for them.
I still believe that they will go the contract route, like AWAS or even something from left field like a buy-out of a struggling contract jet operator where the pilots are use to the lean-mean mentality.
Food for thought…
Looking at it from a commercial viewpoint, ( a management perspective) I believe they would like to generate a hassle-free, lean-mean labour culture. I don't see that taking QF tech crew in any form with their culture of opulence will achieve that for them.
I still believe that they will go the contract route, like AWAS or even something from left field like a buy-out of a struggling contract jet operator where the pilots are use to the lean-mean mentality.
Food for thought…
Nunc est bibendum
'Culture of opulence'?!?!? You're kidding aren't you eagle? These are 767 drivers we are talking about here. I'm pretty sure all of QF 767 drivers have an acceptably high work ethic.
Last I heard, AWAS crews were more expensive than the QF crews! BUt that was just a rumour!
Last I heard, AWAS crews were more expensive than the QF crews! BUt that was just a rumour!
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Keg,
You QF guys really must start using more reliable sources of info - your future depends on clear thinking and informed negotiation.
The AWAS aircraft are saving QF a lot of money at the moment - hence the extension to the contract.
Be aware that AWAS has signed EBA's with pilots/FA's and Engineers for 3 years.
You QF guys really must start using more reliable sources of info - your future depends on clear thinking and informed negotiation.
The AWAS aircraft are saving QF a lot of money at the moment - hence the extension to the contract.
Be aware that AWAS has signed EBA's with pilots/FA's and Engineers for 3 years.
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Hate to agree with oicur12 but everything I hear around the place points to a bad outcome for Qantas pilots. Watch out for the trojan horse guys!
AIPA must secure this flying for Qantas pilots NOW before it's too late. Do whatever it takes. If you are not in the game you can't play.
AIPA must secure this flying for Qantas pilots NOW before it's too late. Do whatever it takes. If you are not in the game you can't play.
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Sea Eagle I have no real interest in working for Australian Airlines, but the in house information is that QF crews will be crewing the new airline.
The company has set up days where briefs are being given to inform QF crews on how the flight ops department intends to crew and run its part of the airline.
It has been stated that no other party is being considered for crewing.
As far as buying AWAS it is news to me, but that could be the big
"R" in Pprune!
The company has set up days where briefs are being given to inform QF crews on how the flight ops department intends to crew and run its part of the airline.
It has been stated that no other party is being considered for crewing.
As far as buying AWAS it is news to me, but that could be the big
"R" in Pprune!
Last edited by Sopwith Pup; 21st Apr 2002 at 06:19.
Talk in the crew room the other day was AWAS is getting out of operating aircraft and going back to a pure lease company.
AWAS pilots in New Zealand are being kicked out of the hotel in Auckland and have to provide their own accomodation and transport and other details are still to be clarified with the new owner of AWAS Operations, on the 28th of April this will be a subsiduary of QF. In return the pilots go onto a fixed term contract.
They currently have around 50 pilots and four aircraft with another 2 aircraft comming and the possibility of more jobs for those interested. On the new pay rates though you think only Kiwis could afford to apply.
The music will continue for some time yet, or at least untill the NZ government realizes it shouldn't try running an airline. Money is, ANZ would be much better of with QF but NZ pride will probably see the company as just a 737 operation before that happens.
AWAS pilots in New Zealand are being kicked out of the hotel in Auckland and have to provide their own accomodation and transport and other details are still to be clarified with the new owner of AWAS Operations, on the 28th of April this will be a subsiduary of QF. In return the pilots go onto a fixed term contract.
They currently have around 50 pilots and four aircraft with another 2 aircraft comming and the possibility of more jobs for those interested. On the new pay rates though you think only Kiwis could afford to apply.
The music will continue for some time yet, or at least untill the NZ government realizes it shouldn't try running an airline. Money is, ANZ would be much better of with QF but NZ pride will probably see the company as just a 737 operation before that happens.
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Thks KEG....Yes for Australian Airlines....
Does anyone know if AWAS is looking for more pilots? Do I read correctly that they may be stocking up for a TN operation?
Does anyone know if AWAS is looking for more pilots? Do I read correctly that they may be stocking up for a TN operation?
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australian airlines
i think that there is very little doubt that the qantas pilots will be crewing this airline. after all even the company has recently put into writing that they have come to an in principle agreement with pilots.
they have also been more than up front with what is going on in regard to awas whilst keeping their obligations to the ASX.
as mr dixon said, this isn't either a low cost airline nor a low wage airline. they are merely trying to break some of the long established industrial relations rules that are preventing australians being employed, as foreigners are able to under cut their costs.
personally, i would like to see the type of conditions, wages extended further, so that qantas may be able to start a international freight operation, employing australian pilots, engineers, load contollers etc, rather than employing foriegn companies to operate foreign aircraft on their behalf.
the more aircraft, pilots, flight attendants, engineers apprentises and generally australians, that we can employ the better the australian airline will be in the future. look at the conditions that australian airlines is offering. they aren't screwing down the conditions, but yet they actually had the perfect opportunity, with the demise of ansett and also the events of sept 11. if we can employ more australians, then perhaps the demand further downt he chain will result in higher conditions
they have also been more than up front with what is going on in regard to awas whilst keeping their obligations to the ASX.
as mr dixon said, this isn't either a low cost airline nor a low wage airline. they are merely trying to break some of the long established industrial relations rules that are preventing australians being employed, as foreigners are able to under cut their costs.
personally, i would like to see the type of conditions, wages extended further, so that qantas may be able to start a international freight operation, employing australian pilots, engineers, load contollers etc, rather than employing foriegn companies to operate foreign aircraft on their behalf.
the more aircraft, pilots, flight attendants, engineers apprentises and generally australians, that we can employ the better the australian airline will be in the future. look at the conditions that australian airlines is offering. they aren't screwing down the conditions, but yet they actually had the perfect opportunity, with the demise of ansett and also the events of sept 11. if we can employ more australians, then perhaps the demand further downt he chain will result in higher conditions
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Deep breaths now, in ......., out ......., in ........, out .......
AWAS is getting out of the aircrew game and going back to the dry leasing aircraft business only. QANTAS currently has AWAS aircrew and aircraft on contract. In order to maintain continuity of service, QF is creating a new entity to employ the existing (and soon to be former) AWAS aircrew. Please note that QF is NOT buying AWAS. It is all about maintaining the current operation of AWAS aircraft that QF is leasing with the existing crew. It has nothing to with Australian Airlines.
Now all you conspiracy theorists out there have been watching too much X-files. Or is it just plain old jealousy against QF aircrew. There seems to a lot of you that are just salivating in the hope that QF pilots will not crew Australian Airlines. Why? What is it exactly that they personally did to you for you to be so bitter against them?
Finally the two letter designator TN is 'owned' by Air Tahiti Nui. Aussie Airlines is yet to be allocated one.
AWAS is getting out of the aircrew game and going back to the dry leasing aircraft business only. QANTAS currently has AWAS aircrew and aircraft on contract. In order to maintain continuity of service, QF is creating a new entity to employ the existing (and soon to be former) AWAS aircrew. Please note that QF is NOT buying AWAS. It is all about maintaining the current operation of AWAS aircraft that QF is leasing with the existing crew. It has nothing to with Australian Airlines.
Now all you conspiracy theorists out there have been watching too much X-files. Or is it just plain old jealousy against QF aircrew. There seems to a lot of you that are just salivating in the hope that QF pilots will not crew Australian Airlines. Why? What is it exactly that they personally did to you for you to be so bitter against them?
Finally the two letter designator TN is 'owned' by Air Tahiti Nui. Aussie Airlines is yet to be allocated one.
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I have copied this paragraph from the Australian Airlines website in the employment section. The page is largely referring to Flight Attendants - but the final paragraph is referring to all employees.
Australian Airlines is wholly-owned by Qantas Airways Limited but managed separately and operated independently of Qantas. Separate conditions of employment will apply for Australian Airlines employees. Employment with Qantas or other subsidiaries will not be possible without first resigning from Australian Airlines.
Updated: April 2002
I may be reading this wrong, so, a couple of (genuine) questions....
If Australian Airlines employing QF pilots (like you are being informed) does that mean you will have to resign from QF?
Would that be the same for Flight Attendants?
Are AA just looking to employ the QF pilots for the start up stage? (The first round of pilots to be from QF for the experience and stability and there after contractors?)
And...
(Mr Dixon said, this isn't either a low cost airline nor a low wage airline.) Could you please explain what those long established industrial relations rules are? (which are preventing australians being employed, as foreigners are able to under cut their costs.)
Thanks guys!
Australian Airlines is wholly-owned by Qantas Airways Limited but managed separately and operated independently of Qantas. Separate conditions of employment will apply for Australian Airlines employees. Employment with Qantas or other subsidiaries will not be possible without first resigning from Australian Airlines.
Updated: April 2002
I may be reading this wrong, so, a couple of (genuine) questions....
If Australian Airlines employing QF pilots (like you are being informed) does that mean you will have to resign from QF?
Would that be the same for Flight Attendants?
Are AA just looking to employ the QF pilots for the start up stage? (The first round of pilots to be from QF for the experience and stability and there after contractors?)
And...
(Mr Dixon said, this isn't either a low cost airline nor a low wage airline.) Could you please explain what those long established industrial relations rules are? (which are preventing australians being employed, as foreigners are able to under cut their costs.)
Thanks guys!