89 Dispute is now over
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89 Dispute is now over
Am I the only one who feels like the 89 dispute is finally over - and we won.
* Ansett, Australian, East-West & Ipec all gone.. .* Hawke in ignominious retirement.. .* Abeles dead.. .* Dr. Hancock's corporatism theory discredited.. .* ACTU grip on government gone.. .* IRC almost irrelevant.. .* ALP a long way from election victory.. .* AFAP rebuilding for a bright future.. .* most scabs unemployed in a tight labour market.. .* 89'rs enjoying careers with EK, CX, KL, VS, KA, SQ etc
It really is too good to be true.
* Ansett, Australian, East-West & Ipec all gone.. .* Hawke in ignominious retirement.. .* Abeles dead.. .* Dr. Hancock's corporatism theory discredited.. .* ACTU grip on government gone.. .* IRC almost irrelevant.. .* ALP a long way from election victory.. .* AFAP rebuilding for a bright future.. .* most scabs unemployed in a tight labour market.. .* 89'rs enjoying careers with EK, CX, KL, VS, KA, SQ etc
It really is too good to be true.
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All you mention, HIALS, was predicted.. .But nobody believed it would happen, least of all the scabs, or the groundies who thought they were heroes. Not a lot for which to thank the heroes now I imagine. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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To Captain Claret and like minded folks, I would like to make the following points.
My post was not intended to boast at the misfortune of the Ansett staff (except the scabs).
It was intended to make the oft-forgotten point that we stood for something in 89. Against the howling rancour of our Government, Employer Airlines, Media and public at large - we were the voice that predicted all this.
At the time our airlines were mismanaged internally. The Government/IRC/ALP/ACTU were conspiring to affect their own survival at the expense of the national well being and the airline industry's profitability. Politically and industrially powerful individuals were running the industry and the Companies that we loved into the ground.
It was this - call it whistleblowing - that we tried to do in 89.
We got shouted down.
You got hoodwinked. Into believing we were bad and wrong while the other side were good and right.
The scabs facilitated the victory of the Hawke/Abeles axis.
The list above is intended to use hindsight to review these last 12 years. It's been damned hard for all concerned. But at the end, we are the ones who predicted it. And, more than any other group we tried to stop it.
Allow us the satisfaction of seeing that we were right all along. There have been some bleak moments in 12 years living abroad.
We should not be afraid of saying "we told you so" nor "we were right" in order to avoid offending the sensibilities of Ansett employees. Otherwise we will think you wish to perpetuate the hegemonic mantra of the past 12 years - which has it that the scabs are heroes and we were greedy, stupid and aggressive.
In the end, Ansett (the same as SN & SR) was destroyed by scullduggery and inept management. We stood up and fought against that scullduggery and those inept individuals in 89 and the scabs facilitated their victory.
That's all.
[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: HIALS ]</p>
My post was not intended to boast at the misfortune of the Ansett staff (except the scabs).
It was intended to make the oft-forgotten point that we stood for something in 89. Against the howling rancour of our Government, Employer Airlines, Media and public at large - we were the voice that predicted all this.
At the time our airlines were mismanaged internally. The Government/IRC/ALP/ACTU were conspiring to affect their own survival at the expense of the national well being and the airline industry's profitability. Politically and industrially powerful individuals were running the industry and the Companies that we loved into the ground.
It was this - call it whistleblowing - that we tried to do in 89.
We got shouted down.
You got hoodwinked. Into believing we were bad and wrong while the other side were good and right.
The scabs facilitated the victory of the Hawke/Abeles axis.
The list above is intended to use hindsight to review these last 12 years. It's been damned hard for all concerned. But at the end, we are the ones who predicted it. And, more than any other group we tried to stop it.
Allow us the satisfaction of seeing that we were right all along. There have been some bleak moments in 12 years living abroad.
We should not be afraid of saying "we told you so" nor "we were right" in order to avoid offending the sensibilities of Ansett employees. Otherwise we will think you wish to perpetuate the hegemonic mantra of the past 12 years - which has it that the scabs are heroes and we were greedy, stupid and aggressive.
In the end, Ansett (the same as SN & SR) was destroyed by scullduggery and inept management. We stood up and fought against that scullduggery and those inept individuals in 89 and the scabs facilitated their victory.
That's all.
[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: HIALS ]</p>
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Puff, you got it in one, it will be over in about 2029 when most of us will be six feet under or too old to give a rat's...until then it will consume a percentage of the Oz pilot population no matter what good fortune they have enjoyed since. And whoever started this post should be ashamed for arcing up these unfortunates all over again. Or is it a plot to have them drop out of the industry due stress? Meantime it's baaaad vibes if these feelings are encouraged to run in even a few cockpits out there, and when this stuff gets in to an entire company culture it has all sorts of dire potential.. .I have pleaded for a separate forum just for the 1989 issue before, so, again PLEASE, can we have a spot on pprune elsewhere for this? I am neither for nor against discussion on the various rights and wrongs of 89, just let's not have it dominate Dunnunda.
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[quote]ACTU grip on government gone.. . <hr></blockquote>
Crean is in opposition mate and thats a bees dick and some average creative journalism from power.
[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: The Crimson Fruitbat ]</p>
Crean is in opposition mate and thats a bees dick and some average creative journalism from power.
[ 02 March 2002: Message edited by: The Crimson Fruitbat ]</p>
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HIALS, I feel like we have won too, it's been a long hard war, but like all wars there is always casualties. (unfortunately I am one of them) I agree with what you have said, . .Quote
"Am I the only one who feels like the 89 dispute is finally over - and we won.
* Ansett, Australian, East-West & Ipec all gone.. .* Hawke in ignominious retirement.. .* Abeles dead.. .* Dr. Hancock's corporatism theory discredited.. .* ACTU grip on government gone.. .* IRC almost irrelevant.. .* ALP a long way from election victory.. .* AFAP rebuilding for a bright future.. .* most scabs unemployed in a tight labour market.. .* 89'rs enjoying careers with EK, CX, KL, VS, KA, SQ etc
It really is too good to be true."
I stayed here to fight the war, and spent close to 18 Months out of work. I was finally offered a job as an intake F/O back in Ansett in 1991, which is what we had been told that we were fighting for. What really upsets me is that some of my brothers in arms consider all Ansett Pilots to be scabs regardless of their employment date. As Ansetts policy was to promote based on joining date I have spent the last 10 years sitting in the right hand seat.
. .Regards
F/O_Zoolander (retired for now)
What a waste, 28 years experience
All the Best, Tim
"Am I the only one who feels like the 89 dispute is finally over - and we won.
* Ansett, Australian, East-West & Ipec all gone.. .* Hawke in ignominious retirement.. .* Abeles dead.. .* Dr. Hancock's corporatism theory discredited.. .* ACTU grip on government gone.. .* IRC almost irrelevant.. .* ALP a long way from election victory.. .* AFAP rebuilding for a bright future.. .* most scabs unemployed in a tight labour market.. .* 89'rs enjoying careers with EK, CX, KL, VS, KA, SQ etc
It really is too good to be true."
I stayed here to fight the war, and spent close to 18 Months out of work. I was finally offered a job as an intake F/O back in Ansett in 1991, which is what we had been told that we were fighting for. What really upsets me is that some of my brothers in arms consider all Ansett Pilots to be scabs regardless of their employment date. As Ansetts policy was to promote based on joining date I have spent the last 10 years sitting in the right hand seat.
. .Regards
F/O_Zoolander (retired for now)
What a waste, 28 years experience
All the Best, Tim
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Personally I'm glad to see the Ansett name disappear - it once represented THE best airline where employees gave their all to see it stay at the top.. .That "once" was IMHO, obviously the years up to 1989.
The "Dispute", manipulated through the then Prime Minister - R.J.L. Hawke - in conjunction with the ACTU allowed a type of employee to enter our beloved Ansett. Scalpers who came for the quick, easy high dollar reward, were merceninaries, and cared solely for their OWN advancement and bank balance. Greedy opportunists who KNEW that there was an industrial dispute underway, but who stepped over us and our families to sieze the 30 pieces of silver.
To have OUR right of workplace representation denied us should have sounded an alarm with other Australian workers, and especially for that other worker representative body, the ACTU.. .And has it back-fired??
What Hawke began 12 years ago, P.M. Howard has used to his advantage. The ACTU, in 1989, condoned the employment of workers under individual contracts WITHOUT UNION REPRESENTATION, and ignored the question posed on thousands of AFAP flyers distributed at the time, WHO WILL BE NEXT?.. .For the sake of allowing some 800-odd SCAB pilots into the airlines, the ACTU sounded their OWN death knell.. .Congratulations, you short-sighted dropkicks, your come-uppance has arrived - and just as you (with a few noteable exceptions) took pleasure in seeing us and our families cast aside, the survivors of 1989 have had to take an extra strong dose of Panadol these past couple of days to alleviate the hangovers from over imbibing!
There is genuine concern for the "innocents" of Ansett - probably as much as there was for us at the time - but for the "heroes" who were welcomed with open arms, by Hawke, Abeles, and the ACTU, they are no less deserving of the contempt they were shown 12 years ago, than they are today. Their actions were UN-Australian, and their presence in Australia's workforce an enigma to all that Australians hold as core values.
The name "Ansett" was tarnished fatally in 1989, when it was used as the lead vehicle, and unfortunately become synonymous with "scab" - . ."Ansett - the scabs' Airline".
Ansett has now gone, and I'm glad it has!!
The "Dispute", manipulated through the then Prime Minister - R.J.L. Hawke - in conjunction with the ACTU allowed a type of employee to enter our beloved Ansett. Scalpers who came for the quick, easy high dollar reward, were merceninaries, and cared solely for their OWN advancement and bank balance. Greedy opportunists who KNEW that there was an industrial dispute underway, but who stepped over us and our families to sieze the 30 pieces of silver.
To have OUR right of workplace representation denied us should have sounded an alarm with other Australian workers, and especially for that other worker representative body, the ACTU.. .And has it back-fired??
What Hawke began 12 years ago, P.M. Howard has used to his advantage. The ACTU, in 1989, condoned the employment of workers under individual contracts WITHOUT UNION REPRESENTATION, and ignored the question posed on thousands of AFAP flyers distributed at the time, WHO WILL BE NEXT?.. .For the sake of allowing some 800-odd SCAB pilots into the airlines, the ACTU sounded their OWN death knell.. .Congratulations, you short-sighted dropkicks, your come-uppance has arrived - and just as you (with a few noteable exceptions) took pleasure in seeing us and our families cast aside, the survivors of 1989 have had to take an extra strong dose of Panadol these past couple of days to alleviate the hangovers from over imbibing!
There is genuine concern for the "innocents" of Ansett - probably as much as there was for us at the time - but for the "heroes" who were welcomed with open arms, by Hawke, Abeles, and the ACTU, they are no less deserving of the contempt they were shown 12 years ago, than they are today. Their actions were UN-Australian, and their presence in Australia's workforce an enigma to all that Australians hold as core values.
The name "Ansett" was tarnished fatally in 1989, when it was used as the lead vehicle, and unfortunately become synonymous with "scab" - . ."Ansett - the scabs' Airline".
Ansett has now gone, and I'm glad it has!!
How come AN always copped the flack for having all the 'scab' labour, Australian had just as many pilots as AN did, and most of them are still flying around with the red rat, however these guys seem to be the forgotten 'scabs' it seems, why are they immune?
Puff. I guess they have found a happy and safe refuge in Qantas which is hard to call a 'Scab' airline when the greater part is the former international only operation. Their refuge is safe as long as the larger QF pilot group accepts them.
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Guy's I find it amazing that you can't move on from 89. Aussies have faught wars and forgiven faster, and they fought for more noble causes with less personal gain and suffered far worse. let it Gooooo
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Hey ZOO, if you were one of the "few", then you were where you were entitled to be. You would be wise, now, not to treat the heroes with whom you worked for ten years, with any less disgust than some of us already do.. .The pleaders for a separate forum because of your claim that '89 is dominant, well, maybe that should tell you something.. .The AA scabs are not forgotten. They exist, but they certainly hide behind the strides of their QF colleagues.. .As for the QF OS guys, their fearless leaders back in the early 1980's lead them over the cliff of "independent/we can do better by ourselves" mentality, and the Australian airline pilots are certainly paying now for that stupidity.. .You have to ask yourselves, how is it that the salary for a Captain on, say a B737, is not much above what was paid to the same equipment in 1989? And that takes nothing of inflation into account.. .Abeles got exactly what he wanted when he managed to get the heroes to scab. He wanted bus drivers salaries, and that is what all will have soon.. .The only rescue is getting back where all professional pilots belong, and that is under one umbrella in the AFAP, and BE UNIFIED AND ACTIVE!. .Unless you do, you will continue to take the profession into the oblivion that all managements want.. .Wake up before it is too late! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 03 March 2002, 01:11: Message edited by: Tool Time Two ]</small>
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I agree TT2 wholeheartedly but as it has been said QF scabs , are still there as a thorn in QF's side and DJ's pilot force are fast becoming factionalized. What goes on from here is anyones guess.