Hotmail blocking mail
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Hotmail blocking mail
I've just fixed a long-standing problem, and it turns out the problem was "Hotmail".
I'm in a rural group of three churches, with a large team of folks doing all kinds of stuff. We use e-mail as the primary communications tool, as you would expect.
Two folks in the team kept not turning up to meetings, or complained they didn't have the agenda, and so on. So I did some digging: both use Hotmail as their e-mail.
I set up a hotmail.com address for me, and sent it some messages from my official and some other e-mail addresses. NONE arrived. Then I looked closer, and saw a little label on the mail screen saying "Junk". In there were all the messages I'd sent, marked "Microsoft SmartScreen marked this message as junk and we'll delete it after ten days."
They weren't particularly junky messages - unless you think a meeting agenda, a set of meeting minutes, and a message with the details of a funeral are "junk".
Those two folks now have webmail addresses on the Church system and are getting all their mail. But if you have Hotmail, check very carefully and very frequently what's in your "Junk" box. It may not be Junk.
I'm in a rural group of three churches, with a large team of folks doing all kinds of stuff. We use e-mail as the primary communications tool, as you would expect.
Two folks in the team kept not turning up to meetings, or complained they didn't have the agenda, and so on. So I did some digging: both use Hotmail as their e-mail.
I set up a hotmail.com address for me, and sent it some messages from my official and some other e-mail addresses. NONE arrived. Then I looked closer, and saw a little label on the mail screen saying "Junk". In there were all the messages I'd sent, marked "Microsoft SmartScreen marked this message as junk and we'll delete it after ten days."
They weren't particularly junky messages - unless you think a meeting agenda, a set of meeting minutes, and a message with the details of a funeral are "junk".
Those two folks now have webmail addresses on the Church system and are getting all their mail. But if you have Hotmail, check very carefully and very frequently what's in your "Junk" box. It may not be Junk.
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It's not really hotmail's fault
I everyone should look through the titles in the junk mail folder in ANY mail system, after all it tells you how many messages there are in the folder so you know they're in there. I very rarely get non junk mail in my hotmail junk box but if I do I just highlight it an click on the 'not junk' button. That way the next time a message comes from that person it goes into the in-box.
If you are using an organization's E-Mail system then it is possible that, if they send out news letters/flyers etc, then someone has moved it to the junk file and when it's auto-deleted after 10 days the address will be added to the list of spammers at Hotmail and all mail from them will be treated as spam.
I everyone should look through the titles in the junk mail folder in ANY mail system, after all it tells you how many messages there are in the folder so you know they're in there. I very rarely get non junk mail in my hotmail junk box but if I do I just highlight it an click on the 'not junk' button. That way the next time a message comes from that person it goes into the in-box.
If you are using an organization's E-Mail system then it is possible that, if they send out news letters/flyers etc, then someone has moved it to the junk file and when it's auto-deleted after 10 days the address will be added to the list of spammers at Hotmail and all mail from them will be treated as spam.
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It's not really hotmail's fault
http://www.pprune.org/computer-inter.../411044-m.html
http://www.pprune.org/computer-inter...behaviour.html
...only inbound to Hotmail! No-one else.
As I say, I'm all for stopping Spam but when it ain't Spam..........................the kids at M$ do get carried away with their own importance a bit.
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This isn't "me" - vaguely computer literate and aware of how this stuff works. This is ordinary folk, using Hotmail because they were told by someone that that is how e-mail works. Nobody told them to click on the very small "Junk" word in a row of other words, and they didn't.
There are about 100 such people on our church contact lists. All but two get their mail with no problem. Two used Hotmail and didn't. Now, they don't use Hotmail and they do again.
There are about 100 such people on our church contact lists. All but two get their mail with no problem. Two used Hotmail and didn't. Now, they don't use Hotmail and they do again.
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I use Gmail and have had very, very few false positives with it.
These Hotmail users were not getting mail from a dozen or so different people with different ISPs, none of it spam, and none of it with anything that even vaguely resembles spam.
These Hotmail users were not getting mail from a dozen or so different people with different ISPs, none of it spam, and none of it with anything that even vaguely resembles spam.
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That's a bit like going out , buying a television, and then only watching one channel because you didn't know there were any more, or you couldn't be bothered to learn how to change channels.
Computers are complex things and people who use them should at least educate themselves in the basics of the programs they use and what the main functions are.
Anyone wanting to receive mail from an organization that has it's own e-mail system should open an account with that system as it's more efficient .
I know you hate microsoft BOAC but it's not really their fault if people don't bother to take the trouble to read the help pages or view one of the many 'How To' videos that MS produce about a product, it's all about education. .
Computers are complex things and people who use them should at least educate themselves in the basics of the programs they use and what the main functions are.
Those two folks now have webmail addresses on the Church system and are getting all their mail.
Quote:
It's not really hotmail's fault
It's not really hotmail's fault
GG - yes it is!
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Gmail now underpins VirginMedia email (blueyonder, NTL, etc.) and I have been very satisfied with the default spam filtering.
I check the spam list once a week or so, and very, very rarely find anything that's not spam.
I also take full advantage of the ability to mark messages as spam from the inbox, so never receive any more from that sender again.
SD
I check the spam list once a week or so, and very, very rarely find anything that's not spam.
I also take full advantage of the ability to mark messages as spam from the inbox, so never receive any more from that sender again.
SD
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I know you hate microsoft BOAC but it's not really their fault if people don't bother to take the trouble to read the help pages or view one of the many 'How To' videos that MS produce about a product, it's all about education.
This came from my host:
"As the error is occurring on their servers, our logs will not contain anything useful. They simply show our email server attempting to send the email to hotmail, and getting that error message in response.
Like most of the large free email providers, hotmail will often block legitimate emails as part of their "anti-spam". If the recipient uses email for anything important, a reliable email provider should be used who will not block emails without the users permission. Attempting to get any information from hotmail about why it was blocked will prove futile, the same as with most of the other big free providers."
My bold and excellent advice. Trouble is, how to persuade your contacts? Plus, of course, the other "big free providers" are not so paranoid.
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BOAC,
I'm with green granite here. Yeah, I don't mind a bit of Microsoft bashing myself... but only in the appropriate circumstances.
It sounds like you are attempting to treat Hotmail as a commercial service, expecting the same support and reliability levels you would get from a paid service.
But as much as the internet and email has become a commodity (or even a "human right" if you ask some people), fact remains that the home user is not prepared to pay for the true cost of implementing systems and processes required to provide, maintain and support the IT infrastructure.
The rise of all these "Free" advertising reliant services in the past decade has done absolutely nothing apart from make the providers even more vicious about cost-cutting measures required in order to make their service even remotely commercially viable. Saying people like M$ and Google can afford it won't cut it, they quite rightly treat their services as seperate business units that are expected to be self-sufficient.
In terms of your specific problem, if you think about how long hotmail has been around, the size of their userbase and hence the volume of mails they have to process, you don't realise how much effort is required for them to constantly keep ahead of the spammers who are always pushing the boundaries. And because Hotmail are providing a free service, they are limited into what technologies can be deployed.
So there you go. I'm unsympathetic to people who expect mission critical reliability out of their IT whilst not wanting to pay anything (or close to nothing) for it.
I'm with green granite here. Yeah, I don't mind a bit of Microsoft bashing myself... but only in the appropriate circumstances.
It sounds like you are attempting to treat Hotmail as a commercial service, expecting the same support and reliability levels you would get from a paid service.
But as much as the internet and email has become a commodity (or even a "human right" if you ask some people), fact remains that the home user is not prepared to pay for the true cost of implementing systems and processes required to provide, maintain and support the IT infrastructure.
The rise of all these "Free" advertising reliant services in the past decade has done absolutely nothing apart from make the providers even more vicious about cost-cutting measures required in order to make their service even remotely commercially viable. Saying people like M$ and Google can afford it won't cut it, they quite rightly treat their services as seperate business units that are expected to be self-sufficient.
In terms of your specific problem, if you think about how long hotmail has been around, the size of their userbase and hence the volume of mails they have to process, you don't realise how much effort is required for them to constantly keep ahead of the spammers who are always pushing the boundaries. And because Hotmail are providing a free service, they are limited into what technologies can be deployed.
So there you go. I'm unsympathetic to people who expect mission critical reliability out of their IT whilst not wanting to pay anything (or close to nothing) for it.
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Trouble is, Mixture - I don't use Hotmail. Some of my clients do, though. That is the problem. Why cannot they do what other services do and mark email as 'spam' for the receiver to decide? Similar to BT Yahoo's way of putting their decisions on what is spam into a spambox - of which a large number of 'average' users do not know - and then deleting same emails after 30 days without as much as a 'by your leave' to the user.
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...only inbound to Hotmail! No-one else.
And even worse - it doesn't move spam to a "junk" folder, it just silently deletes it.
And this is because I've configured it this way, because I want it this way. There's no way I'm going to look at a spam folder every day to see if there are any real messages amongst the thousands of spam, so they might as well be deleted immediately rather than cluttering up someone's disk for a fortnight.
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It's more like buying a television and changing channels etc, but not checking the setup screen to see if it's hiding some channels because MS doesn't approve of them.
These are normal, unsuspecting internet users who have signed up for hotmail expecting it to do what it says on the tin. They didn't know that it was blocking mail - take a look at the mail page and see if you, as a non-expert, would realise there was blocked mail in there. I found it because I was looking for it. These two did not.
Happily we have a domain and server which will accommodate them, and they are now happily receiving their mail.
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GtW - do you also throw all letters with, say, a printed address, in the bin before opening them in case they are mailshots?
If they're real people and they're that bothered they'll follow up any rare failure to respond. If they weren't that bothered then neither am I.
Actually, I've always found the Hotmail junk filter rather good. Like any filter, it will sometimes block something, based on whatever criteria it uses, that was not junk.
No problems with Hotmail at all, except that now and then it's a little slow.
No problems with Hotmail at all, except that now and then it's a little slow.
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That is debatable on two points:
a) It appears that their SmartScreenŽ system is not so smart after all, and
b) they could do what my freemail provider does, which is send you a daily summary of what's been caught by the spam filter. A quick scan of it takes seconds and has been helpful on the few occasions on the last 14 years when it got overzealous (e.g., with the likes of Easyjet confirmation messages). It does learn from its mistakes too, or you can easily whitelist the sender.
So yes, it is their "fault", in a way. It is also yours, as they are taking advantage of your low expectations.
a) It appears that their SmartScreenŽ system is not so smart after all, and
b) they could do what my freemail provider does, which is send you a daily summary of what's been caught by the spam filter. A quick scan of it takes seconds and has been helpful on the few occasions on the last 14 years when it got overzealous (e.g., with the likes of Easyjet confirmation messages). It does learn from its mistakes too, or you can easily whitelist the sender.
So yes, it is their "fault", in a way. It is also yours, as they are taking advantage of your low expectations.
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Why would I want a summary of what is already there and on obvious view? All I need need to do is click on the folder marked 'junk' and all the headings are there for me to see, I don't need yet another e-mail telling me what is in the junk box.
And exactly why do you state that I have "low expectations"? Low expectations of what?
As far as I'm concerned hot mail is a perfectly useable e-mail system, my point was if you don't understand how the concept works then you will never get the best out of it.
80% of all e-mails sent are spam so I think that all mail servers do a good job of ditching spam but every now and again they will get it wrong, whoever owns them.
And exactly why do you state that I have "low expectations"? Low expectations of what?
As far as I'm concerned hot mail is a perfectly useable e-mail system, my point was if you don't understand how the concept works then you will never get the best out of it.
80% of all e-mails sent are spam so I think that all mail servers do a good job of ditching spam but every now and again they will get it wrong, whoever owns them.
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Hotmail
Those are FREE email services...You get what you pay for.. Try finding help if you have any trouble.
By the way... Have you ever asked why they offer the service for free?
Just because they are such nice people?
No... They are scanning your email... In other words.. Data mining..
I would recommend an email address or an account with a real Internet Service Provider that is there to help you and take care of you.
Bill
By the way... Have you ever asked why they offer the service for free?
Just because they are such nice people?
No... They are scanning your email... In other words.. Data mining..
I would recommend an email address or an account with a real Internet Service Provider that is there to help you and take care of you.
Bill