**** M$!
Thread Starter
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: UK
**** M$!
Yesterday I was sending to hotmails ok. Today I'm not
I get
Reason: Remote host said: 550 SC-001 Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. Reasons for rejection may be related to content with spam-like characteristics or IP/domain reputation problems. If you are not an email/network admin please contact your E-mail/Internet Service Provider for help. Email/network admins, please visit MSN Postmaster for email delivery information and support
I have followed the suggested sender ID path and changed the DNS Text record to the generated one and still back comes the message. There is NO spam in the email!
What are they up to?
I get
Reason: Remote host said: 550 SC-001 Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. Reasons for rejection may be related to content with spam-like characteristics or IP/domain reputation problems. If you are not an email/network admin please contact your E-mail/Internet Service Provider for help. Email/network admins, please visit MSN Postmaster for email delivery information and support
I have followed the suggested sender ID path and changed the DNS Text record to the generated one and still back comes the message. There is NO spam in the email!
What are they up to?
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Earth
BOAC,
How are you sending your emails to hotmail users ? Through another webmail service ? Through your work account ? Through an SMTP service running on your home network ?
Most likely, the IP address you are sending from features on one or more IP lists that are used to weigh up the overall likelyhood of an email being spam. Perhaps hotmail is configured to attach more points to such lists than other email providers.
How are you sending your emails to hotmail users ? Through another webmail service ? Through your work account ? Through an SMTP service running on your home network ?
Most likely, the IP address you are sending from features on one or more IP lists that are used to weigh up the overall likelyhood of an email being spam. Perhaps hotmail is configured to attach more points to such lists than other email providers.
Thread Starter
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
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From: UK
They go, as always, through my domain hosts email servers. The IP address is a floater from my ISP. I will do a router reset, however, and try again. Good thinking!
Google appears to be knee-deep in such issues.
EDIT: Still the same
Google appears to be knee-deep in such issues.
EDIT: Still the same
Last edited by BOAC; 3rd April 2010 at 16:31.
Chief Tardis Technician
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Western Australia S31.715 E115.737
It may be your email host that is being rejected. Someone on the same server (ie mail.emailserver.com) may have been spamming, causing the whole server to be blocked.. try contacting your server host, and see if anyone else is having the same problem.
Thread Starter
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From: UK
Don't think so, but I found a form to fill in for M$ and now have this reply:
Thank you for writing to the Sender ID Management Team. This is Mike and I am responding to your request for the enrollment to the Sender ID program. I appreciate your interest in joining this program.
We have added your xxx.com and xxx.biz to the Sender ID program. This may take up to 2 business days to be fully replicated in our systems. If you have any questions regarding this please let me know.
We reviewed your SPF record and note that it includes the "ptr" or reverse DNS lookup mechanism. The specification for SPF records (RFC 4408) discourages use of "ptr" for performance and reliability reasons. This is especially important for Windows Live Mail, Hotmail and other large ISPs as a result of the very high volume of mail we receive each day. We highly recommend you remove the "ptr" mechanism from your SPF record and, if necessary, replace it with other SPF mechanisms that do not require a reverse DNS lookup, such as "a", "mx", "ip4" and "include." This will help ensure that Sender ID validation is performed as accurately as possible, maximizing your email deliverability while protecting your domain from spoofing.
You do not need to notify us when you make this or any revision to your SPF record since we will automatically pull the current record from the DNS daily. Thanks again for your support in improving online trust and confidence.
You can find technical information on the Sender ID program at
Sender ID Home Page
Regards,
Mike C.
Sender ID Management Team
I'm speaking to my hosters to see if they can cast any light on this. What are the implications of removing reverse DNS lookup?
Thank you for writing to the Sender ID Management Team. This is Mike and I am responding to your request for the enrollment to the Sender ID program. I appreciate your interest in joining this program.
We have added your xxx.com and xxx.biz to the Sender ID program. This may take up to 2 business days to be fully replicated in our systems. If you have any questions regarding this please let me know.
We reviewed your SPF record and note that it includes the "ptr" or reverse DNS lookup mechanism. The specification for SPF records (RFC 4408) discourages use of "ptr" for performance and reliability reasons. This is especially important for Windows Live Mail, Hotmail and other large ISPs as a result of the very high volume of mail we receive each day. We highly recommend you remove the "ptr" mechanism from your SPF record and, if necessary, replace it with other SPF mechanisms that do not require a reverse DNS lookup, such as "a", "mx", "ip4" and "include." This will help ensure that Sender ID validation is performed as accurately as possible, maximizing your email deliverability while protecting your domain from spoofing.
You do not need to notify us when you make this or any revision to your SPF record since we will automatically pull the current record from the DNS daily. Thanks again for your support in improving online trust and confidence.
You can find technical information on the Sender ID program at
Sender ID Home Page
Regards,
Mike C.
Sender ID Management Team
I'm speaking to my hosters to see if they can cast any light on this. What are the implications of removing reverse DNS lookup?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 525
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From: LONDON
BOAC,
The problem with reverse DNS Lookup is that a recipents mail server may check your IP Address against the domain of the email address your sending from.
Thus if your sending hotmail messages from a .biz IP address a reverse DNS lookup will find the .biz name and not homail.com as the domain name and could well reject it as being spam.
The problem with reverse DNS Lookup is that a recipents mail server may check your IP Address against the domain of the email address your sending from.
Thus if your sending hotmail messages from a .biz IP address a reverse DNS lookup will find the .biz name and not homail.com as the domain name and could well reject it as being spam.
Thread Starter
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From: UK
A touch of crossed wires, I think, Jof - all is 'clean' on these emails, sent from a .biz and a .com domain to a hotmail but refused. Cannot quite see what M$'s 'issue' with reverse DNS is.
Thread Starter
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From: UK
Quite - but this arrived this am
"Hi,
We've successfully added your domains to our Sender ID queue. However, please take note that this does not guarantee that your emails will de delivered to your recipients' inbox. Publishing your SPF records and enrolling in our Junk Mail Reporting Program (JMRP) are the two policy requirements of Hotmail.
If you are still unable to send emails to Hotmail users, please confirm that your emails comply with Windows Live Hotmail's technical standards."
NB My bolding: Is this a new M$ rule? The quality of English is poor even for Americans.
Am I being spoofed? Does anyone know what this all means? Why has this suddenly happened?
"Hi,
We've successfully added your domains to our Sender ID queue. However, please take note that this does not guarantee that your emails will de delivered to your recipients' inbox. Publishing your SPF records and enrolling in our Junk Mail Reporting Program (JMRP) are the two policy requirements of Hotmail.
If you are still unable to send emails to Hotmail users, please confirm that your emails comply with Windows Live Hotmail's technical standards."
NB My bolding: Is this a new M$ rule? The quality of English is poor even for Americans.
Am I being spoofed? Does anyone know what this all means? Why has this suddenly happened?
Thread Starter
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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From: UK
Don't think so - two compeletly separate addresses on two different email servers. Why does M$ feel they have to screw things up? Is it because they lost the battle over IE?
I've had a reply to my whinge which wants 21 answers (including inside leg and collar size................). I think I'll leave it for Easter to clear their systems as B says and ignore this am's email. What on earth does this mean?
Furthermore, enrolling in the Sender ID does not guarantee that your emails will de delivered to your recipients' inbox. Publishing your SPF records and enrolling in our Junk Mail Reporting Program (JMRP) are the two policy requirements of Hotmail.
Has the world gone mad?
I've had a reply to my whinge which wants 21 answers (including inside leg and collar size................). I think I'll leave it for Easter to clear their systems as B says and ignore this am's email. What on earth does this mean?
Furthermore, enrolling in the Sender ID does not guarantee that your emails will de delivered to your recipients' inbox. Publishing your SPF records and enrolling in our Junk Mail Reporting Program (JMRP) are the two policy requirements of Hotmail.
Has the world gone mad?
Thread Starter
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: UK
Well, the 'English' bit was " emails will de delivered to your recipients' inbox". I have to confess that's a new one to me.
The "what's it all about" bit was to see if anyone knew why I suddenly needed to sign up to some M$ crap as in "Publishing your SPF records and enrolling in our Junk Mail Reporting Program (JMRP) are the two policy requirements of Hotmail." . I had to go to the 'sender ID home page' on 4/4 to which you referred to initiate the SPF change.
Anyway - I got a bit shirty with Carlo (who sent yesterday's message and asked for my inside leg measurement) and asked him, not too politely, to identify the spam in the email they had a copy of. Whether that worked or not I know not, but normal service was resumed yesterday afternoon. So, I am now the proud owner of 2 domains with M$ approved SPF records. Lucky me.
Thanks due also to bushfiva for reminding me of the time scales.I obviously now send emails that 'comply with Windows Live Hotmail's technical standards' so that's a relief. I guess I put this down to a mini Tsunami on Oceanus Gatesicus?
Still puzzled why a 'reverse DNS lookup' is a problem for Bill?
The "what's it all about" bit was to see if anyone knew why I suddenly needed to sign up to some M$ crap as in "Publishing your SPF records and enrolling in our Junk Mail Reporting Program (JMRP) are the two policy requirements of Hotmail." . I had to go to the 'sender ID home page' on 4/4 to which you referred to initiate the SPF change.
Anyway - I got a bit shirty with Carlo (who sent yesterday's message and asked for my inside leg measurement) and asked him, not too politely, to identify the spam in the email they had a copy of. Whether that worked or not I know not, but normal service was resumed yesterday afternoon. So, I am now the proud owner of 2 domains with M$ approved SPF records. Lucky me.
Thanks due also to bushfiva for reminding me of the time scales.I obviously now send emails that 'comply with Windows Live Hotmail's technical standards' so that's a relief. I guess I put this down to a mini Tsunami on Oceanus Gatesicus?
Still puzzled why a 'reverse DNS lookup' is a problem for Bill?
Thread Starter
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From: UK
This back from tech support at my hosting lot - it looks as if Hotmail really should get the boot!
"Like most of the large free email providers, hotmail will often block legitimate emails as part of their "anti-spam". If the recipient uses email for anything important, a reliable email provider should be used who will not block emails without the users permission. Attempting to get any information from hotmail about why it was blocked will prove futile, the same as with most of the other big free providers."
I guess they get what they (don't) pay for
"Like most of the large free email providers, hotmail will often block legitimate emails as part of their "anti-spam". If the recipient uses email for anything important, a reliable email provider should be used who will not block emails without the users permission. Attempting to get any information from hotmail about why it was blocked will prove futile, the same as with most of the other big free providers."
I guess they get what they (don't) pay for
Thread Starter
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From: UK
Well, it has happened again! 2 domains 'bouncing' again. With my hosting company we have checked ALL spam blacklists for my ISP IP, their email sender IP and domain names and we are clear. I have sorted it (temporarily) by changing the SMTP from the domain SMTP to a gmail sender, but I await the next toys coming from the cot.
It appears that Hotmail have some renegade spam system which fires off all on its own for no reason. As my hoster points out, hotmailers may well be missing vast quantities of emails because of this.
Grr!
It appears that Hotmail have some renegade spam system which fires off all on its own for no reason. As my hoster points out, hotmailers may well be missing vast quantities of emails because of this.
Grr!
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Patterson, NY
BOAC:
Um, Hotmail is a Microsoft product is it not? Not meaning to bash MS (which I usually do enjoy anyway) but does any of this really surprise you? When it comes to standards, Internet or otherwise, MS is very adept at ignoring said standards. They usually try to come up with their own, only to realize it doesn't work and, back to the drawing board.
When, oh when, will they ever learn?
Um, Hotmail is a Microsoft product is it not? Not meaning to bash MS (which I usually do enjoy anyway) but does any of this really surprise you? When it comes to standards, Internet or otherwise, MS is very adept at ignoring said standards. They usually try to come up with their own, only to realize it doesn't work and, back to the drawing board.
When, oh when, will they ever learn?
Thread Starter
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From: UK
Never, I suspect. It is just incredibly frustrating when innocent emails are blocked for no apparent reason, and I need to email some hotmailers as they are 'customers', and others friends with no alternate accounts. So far with a different SMTP all is well, but who knows when....? If the relevant IP/domain/server actually appeared on a blacklist somewhere instead of in some M$ geeks' fertile brain I think I could accept this.