Arrgh ...
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 467
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From: Sunrise, Fl. U.S.A.
Arrgh ...
Vent mode on:
I am SO tired of people who state "Well it worked ok [insert time, date, etc.] why not now?"
Because something happened to it in the meantime, that's why! If you had a lamp that turned on yesterday, but will not turn on now? What do you thin might have happened, besides a power failure in the building? Grr ...
Those types of statements serve no purpose to the troubleshooting process.
When you speak or chat to a technician, we want DETAILS, if a logon issue, the logon and password.
If a program error, then name the frelling program for god's sake.
We want the EXACT error given, not your interpretation of it.
If you didn't obtain it, then rerun the steps that gave it to you and write it down (which in too many cases is what you should do with your username and password to begin with on logon issues....)
Do NOT announce how you are an expert, for most of those follow up that statement with proof they know nothing of what they say or understand as it pertains to computers and/or the internet.
Do assume you may have made a mistake, for 90% of the time, that will be it, and in the other 10% the issue the tech is responsible for correcting can be QUICKLY identified, and in most cases rectified.
(On occasion the author is so incensed with some novices at work that there should be some sort of test and card given to people before they can enter a store and purchase a computer... this one in particular couldn't logon to his web mail, and it would have helped if he turned the damn thing on to begin with... don't know how he missed the black monitor staring back at him ... This was one of those occasions.
To any novices (one's who have actually have tried reading a help file, or learning on their own) intermediate or other experts out there, excuse the frustration.)
Vent mode: off.
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: RW-1 ]</p>
I am SO tired of people who state "Well it worked ok [insert time, date, etc.] why not now?"
Because something happened to it in the meantime, that's why! If you had a lamp that turned on yesterday, but will not turn on now? What do you thin might have happened, besides a power failure in the building? Grr ...
Those types of statements serve no purpose to the troubleshooting process.
When you speak or chat to a technician, we want DETAILS, if a logon issue, the logon and password.
If a program error, then name the frelling program for god's sake.
We want the EXACT error given, not your interpretation of it.
If you didn't obtain it, then rerun the steps that gave it to you and write it down (which in too many cases is what you should do with your username and password to begin with on logon issues....)
Do NOT announce how you are an expert, for most of those follow up that statement with proof they know nothing of what they say or understand as it pertains to computers and/or the internet.
Do assume you may have made a mistake, for 90% of the time, that will be it, and in the other 10% the issue the tech is responsible for correcting can be QUICKLY identified, and in most cases rectified.
(On occasion the author is so incensed with some novices at work that there should be some sort of test and card given to people before they can enter a store and purchase a computer... this one in particular couldn't logon to his web mail, and it would have helped if he turned the damn thing on to begin with... don't know how he missed the black monitor staring back at him ... This was one of those occasions.
To any novices (one's who have actually have tried reading a help file, or learning on their own) intermediate or other experts out there, excuse the frustration.)
Vent mode: off.
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: RW-1 ]</p>
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
From: UK
Also assuming that after some 28 years with PC and the so-called Microcomputers I should know a lot about systems and software, having gone through a couple of pre-DOS operating systems, all the DOS versions, than the graphical times with Windows in most versions, I still discover every day some interesting but mostly annoying glitches or faults.
This board is for a lot of us a helpful site and it makes myself happy, if I see that others succeeded with the odd bits and pieces because someone else knew a solution or a document or simply a work-around.
Only one thing is bad here, if the self announced God's and Allmighties of the 90s are waking up and trying to crucify others for being unaware of problems or new to a very sensitive environment.
Remains only to congratulate these all-knowing-highly skilled Aviators of being born with all the knowledge and not having had the burden to face the learning stage as most others of us had to do.
For all the rest of us there is only one solution, post your problems, listen to the answers, sort the answers, give more details if required and ignore the slashing....
This board is for a lot of us a helpful site and it makes myself happy, if I see that others succeeded with the odd bits and pieces because someone else knew a solution or a document or simply a work-around.
Only one thing is bad here, if the self announced God's and Allmighties of the 90s are waking up and trying to crucify others for being unaware of problems or new to a very sensitive environment.
Remains only to congratulate these all-knowing-highly skilled Aviators of being born with all the knowledge and not having had the burden to face the learning stage as most others of us had to do.
For all the rest of us there is only one solution, post your problems, listen to the answers, sort the answers, give more details if required and ignore the slashing....
Cunning Artificer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,125
Likes: 7
From: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Couldn't agree more. Got a problem? Post it here and a fix is guaranteed. This forum has to be the best tech support site anywhere on the internet. [Of course it only works if you have access to a functional computer and a working connection, but nothing's perfect, right? <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> ]
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
From: Yorkshire
Yeah, lets face it, mu experince of going into companies is that most of their IT depts are staffed my people who have done a short course and called themselves 'IT Consultants'. Most of the staff are being driven crazy and it seems that all courses teach them the standard phrase of 'Reboot it'
Asking around on places such as these boards tends to yield more results.... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
Asking around on places such as these boards tends to yield more results.... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 467
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From: Sunrise, Fl. U.S.A.
Chaps, I am an expert, but by no means one of those gods, the general statements made above will serve anyone on any forum when posting an issue. I'm definately for boards, and where we can give out answers, I'd just like to see a slightly improved common sense approach to the details of the issues given. (and boy did I love doing DOS support 
)
Damn, just and too many "ignorant ones" (you know what I mean) yesterday, and it got to me, it happens.
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: RW-1 ]</p>
)Damn, just and too many "ignorant ones" (you know what I mean) yesterday, and it got to me, it happens.
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: RW-1 ]</p>
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,003
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From: Geriatrica, UK
I think we must distinguish RW-1's outburst from what goes on here where people at all levels try to help others at all levels by swapping knowledge, experiences, links to other sites etc.
My sympathies with RW-1 from my small-time, part-time, often free support for friends, neighbours and small companies can be summed up from the experience I reported here a year ago.
I made a house call to fix a mouse that had stopped working. The ball had been removed by the lady's nephew who had stayed for Christmas; he had dropped it behind the waste basket! I was so pissed-off that she and her man had not even looked at the bottom of the mouse that I refused the Gin and Tonic!
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: fobotcso ]</p>
My sympathies with RW-1 from my small-time, part-time, often free support for friends, neighbours and small companies can be summed up from the experience I reported here a year ago.
I made a house call to fix a mouse that had stopped working. The ball had been removed by the lady's nephew who had stayed for Christmas; he had dropped it behind the waste basket! I was so pissed-off that she and her man had not even looked at the bottom of the mouse that I refused the Gin and Tonic!
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: fobotcso ]</p>
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 845
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From: N51:37:39 W1:19:16 Feel free to use as a waypoint.
Julian
I think you will find that the answer to most of the inane stupid etc etc... problems that RW-1 is ranting about IS to reboot the PC.
Simple fact is that if there is a problem and a reboot doesnt cure it then it IS a problem.
One can easily spot a dimwit IT bod, he's the one who will keep telling you to reboot it without offering a more permanent solution.
I think you will find that the answer to most of the inane stupid etc etc... problems that RW-1 is ranting about IS to reboot the PC.
Simple fact is that if there is a problem and a reboot doesnt cure it then it IS a problem.
One can easily spot a dimwit IT bod, he's the one who will keep telling you to reboot it without offering a more permanent solution.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 1
From: Cambridge, England, EU
Too right.
How about the person who was actually being paid to beta test some software, and reported: "I got a message saying 'Internal Error' and then some numbers".
"Well, what were the numbers, then, please?"
"I don't know, I didn't write them down."
DUH!!!
How about the person who was actually being paid to beta test some software, and reported: "I got a message saying 'Internal Error' and then some numbers".
"Well, what were the numbers, then, please?"
"I don't know, I didn't write them down."
DUH!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 467
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From: Sunrise, Fl. U.S.A.
I think you guys have realized where I'm coming from.
It certainly was a day yesterday ... (I do hosting support, email, chat, and general PC stuff, some THRU chat and email, not phone...)
I always strive for an answer, and rebooting, while good, usually isn't going to help my customers (poss network connection, DNS, firewall issues)
It just continues to amaze me that i get the most vague descriptions, and still have to play 20 qustions on occasion to get to the bottom of things.
I do admit I'm a "tell me, let me fix it and you're done" type, blunt, but give me the details, and I'll get you an answer quickly, without fluff hehe ....
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: RW-1 ]</p>
It certainly was a day yesterday ... (I do hosting support, email, chat, and general PC stuff, some THRU chat and email, not phone...)
I always strive for an answer, and rebooting, while good, usually isn't going to help my customers (poss network connection, DNS, firewall issues)
It just continues to amaze me that i get the most vague descriptions, and still have to play 20 qustions on occasion to get to the bottom of things.
I do admit I'm a "tell me, let me fix it and you're done" type, blunt, but give me the details, and I'll get you an answer quickly, without fluff hehe ....
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: RW-1 ]</p>
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 406
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From: Winchester.Hants.England
On a lighter note I must say that this forum is excellent for a relative novice like myself. I have come on leaps and bounds thanks to the many helpful and clever souls who take the time and trouble to answer questions posted on this forum.
Thanks
FBW
Thanks
FBW
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
From: Yorkshire
Man on The Fence - I agree but thats also the first thing that people do when something doesnt work or locks up.
IT then tell you do what you have already done and when you explain you have already tried it you get the response of "Oh!"
IT then tell you do what you have already done and when you explain you have already tried it you get the response of "Oh!"
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
From: Sunrise, Fl. U.S.A.
When you finally call IT or support departments, all your calls are logged.
The reason we start with stuff you may already have done, is so that those steps can be documented. Would look bad if you start editing a registry and all it needed was a restart huh?
I had a guy once a few years back who took a PC I built for him home on a Friday. I had run it at the store with no issues before he picked it up.
He called on Monday saying it wouldn't boot, and it was my fault for building the thing, and he wanted me to fix it. after talking to him for 7 minutes, I had him bring it in.
Well, as he is standing over me cursing me, the store, etc. I look at his root, and lo and behold his system files have been edited, nothing in config.sys, nor autoexec. (win 3.11 DOS system, I said it was a while back )
Looking at the dir, I asked him if he had inadvertantly played with his files. NO! Not I! ("It's your problem! you guys can't build for !!!!!!")
So I pointed out that the computer knows when you alter a file too, and saves that info, and looking at his two system files in question that they were last modified yesterday. On Sunday, you know, when we are not open! So how does he explain that? Manager wanted to know as well, and this guy after I recreated the files and booted it, was asked to leave.
I use this example to illistrate that while you may not be of this type, for the most part if someone says "I did that" they might not be telling you the truth (maybe they did not understand what it was I asked them and do not want to admit ignorance, perhaps some just figure if they say "Yes, I did that" that by some miricle of magic I'll be able to fix it, don't really know).
So you can see why IT's might go thru steps a cust may or may not have gone through (depending on issue presented) so that it can be documented, and go from there.
[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: RW-1 ]</p>
The reason we start with stuff you may already have done, is so that those steps can be documented. Would look bad if you start editing a registry and all it needed was a restart huh?
I had a guy once a few years back who took a PC I built for him home on a Friday. I had run it at the store with no issues before he picked it up.
He called on Monday saying it wouldn't boot, and it was my fault for building the thing, and he wanted me to fix it. after talking to him for 7 minutes, I had him bring it in.
Well, as he is standing over me cursing me, the store, etc. I look at his root, and lo and behold his system files have been edited, nothing in config.sys, nor autoexec. (win 3.11 DOS system, I said it was a while back
)Looking at the dir, I asked him if he had inadvertantly played with his files. NO! Not I! ("It's your problem! you guys can't build for !!!!!!")
So I pointed out that the computer knows when you alter a file too, and saves that info, and looking at his two system files in question that they were last modified yesterday. On Sunday, you know, when we are not open! So how does he explain that? Manager wanted to know as well, and this guy after I recreated the files and booted it, was asked to leave.
I use this example to illistrate that while you may not be of this type, for the most part if someone says "I did that" they might not be telling you the truth (maybe they did not understand what it was I asked them and do not want to admit ignorance, perhaps some just figure if they say "Yes, I did that" that by some miricle of magic I'll be able to fix it, don't really know).
So you can see why IT's might go thru steps a cust may or may not have gone through (depending on issue presented) so that it can be documented, and go from there.
[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: RW-1 ]</p>
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 845
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From: N51:37:39 W1:19:16 Feel free to use as a waypoint.
Julian
That'll be because it usually is the fix (especially if you are on a network and the probelm is one of connectivity) at the end of the day quite often the alternative to a reboot is to take the PC away. Just try suggesting that to the customer .
Anyway the real fix would mean thinking about it, and that would take ones concentration away from the game of Doom one was playing <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
That'll be because it usually is the fix (especially if you are on a network and the probelm is one of connectivity) at the end of the day quite often the alternative to a reboot is to take the PC away. Just try suggesting that to the customer
.Anyway the real fix would mean thinking about it, and that would take ones concentration away from the game of Doom one was playing <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
