Goodbye Macs. Sigh.......

[Binoculars]

Not yet two years old, my flirtation with Macs is over. I've enjoyed the experience, never a thought about anti-virus, probably two crashes in the whole time. All those who argue that Macs are not overpriced given the integrated software they arrive with are right; there are fabulous suites included, and to option up a PC to similar specs would theoretically cost even more.

But.

I've already had a quiet whinge on this forum about the attitude to service by Apple: four months old? you have a problem and you expect free phone service? You jest of course!

So my music playback on iTunes starts distorting, as though there are interruptions on the internet connection. Not just streaming, but CD music as well. Please fix, I go on holiday, I back in two weeks. Sounds strange, haven't heard of this one, we fix.

Arrive back, presented with a bill for $55. Que? $55, I ask suspiciously, knowing that is the going price for walking through the door? That's all, says woman.

Err, could I see the service docket? Certainly.

Test Imac for sound problem.

Tried running iMac on external HDD; problem persisted. (err, I already did that.)


Tried with known working RAM. (???)

Tried on archive install but still didn't fix the problem.

Result: Logic board is faulty causing sound distortion; cost to replace is: $1029: Cost to fit: $132. Total cost for a poorly designed or faulty part (ok, I put that bit in): $1161.

Me: So I gather it's not actually fixed?

Woman: Hang on and I'll check.

Me: ???

Woman: (reappearing from bowels of service dept): It needs a new logic board.

Me: So I'm paying you $55 to tell me that it's going to cost me $1161 to replace one component of a $1700 computer?

I will spare you the rest of the conversation because there wasn't any until I went out the door, unsellable computer in my arms, and closed the sliding door rather unhappily, uttering quiet expletives when I got outside.

Woman then had nerve to open door and tell me not to slam the door. I suggested (very diplomatically of course) that as the sole Apple agent in my place of residence she was the frontline for unhappy customers, of which she could now count me as one, and she had a bloody cheek to complain about the treatment of her precious door considering she was going to let me walk out of it without specifically telling me my computer was still fecked.

Back to Windows for me. Free software available everywhere, including the antivirus so necessary. And if the whole thing falls apart I can buy a brand new clone computer for less than the price of the precious Apple "logic board".

If anyone wants a 18 month old iMac in perfect condition unless you want to listen to music, feel free to call me before I take it to the tip.

A sour taste left in the mouth of this Apple "convert".

[AppleMacster]

Binos,

Sorry to hear about your frustrations with your local Apple service centre. Not all service centres are alike. From this thread on the mactalk forums, it might be worth contacting Apple Australia direct – it looks like yours isn't an isolated experience:

http://forums.mactalk.com.au/archive...p/t-16794.html

Applemacster.

[The Flying Pram]

"The Gadget Show" on channel 5 here in the U.K. recently did a comparison on the ease of repairing a damaged P.C. vs MAC. They deliberately dropped one of each onto a concrete floor. Then set about seeing how much damage was done and how easily (and cheaply) each could be repaired. Despite similar faults on both machines, the P.C. was working within a couple of hours at a cost of less than £100 with readily available parts. The Mac however had to be sent away to an authorised repair centre, as they were unable to buy the required components. This took a couple of weeks and the final bill was many times more.

[green granite]

I'm about to upgrade, I was considering a Mac but not now, thanks Binos you may have saved me some heartache.

[AppleMacster]

green granite,

Whilst Binos' experience has been less than brilliant with Apple, consider those of us who have been happily using Macs for twenty years without problem, before making your decision. If you can, get to an AppleStore and speak to the staff – they are best-placed to advise.

AppleMacster

[Spinflight]

I'm sure if you whinge enough, to Apple rather than a franchise, you'll get it repaired properly.

You'd be daft to go back to a PC after investing in Apple.

Sounds like an IO problem to me, could be a case of a loose connection somewhere as IO is normally buletproof.

[Mad Monk]

Unfortunate news on your motherboard/audio distortion. I only hope it is a rare phenomenon.
I have found Apple UK to be better, but Apple support has never been great, I have paid for Applecare which I hope I never have to use. This is 24hr at site hardware replacement and 24/7 'phone hardware/software support at, I think, 129GBP for two years beyond initial. Primary reason is hardware, a G5 Quadcore, 8Gb ram and two 500Gb drives as RAID 0 stripe. Plus an iBook.
In the 12 years I have been using Macs I have had a MotherBoard failure on an iBook, most of that particular model failed, then failed again after m/b replacement. Of the scores of Macs with which I have been acquainted, I also run a Mac hard/software support group in my 'free' time, I know of three m/b fails[see above] and one ram[not vouchsafed] failure.

There is no perfect OS/software/hardware yo pays yo money yo takes yo choice.
People screw up, systems become confused. Do housekeeping.

With a glass of Sauvignon Blanc and shavings of Mimolette, I bid you goodnight. M.

[Shiny side down]

I recently switched to mac. I love it.
I have a macbook.

Previously, I always built my own PC systems. My last one is still running fine electronically- it's about 6years old. I got to the point where I needed a laptop.
My reason for switching from pc was irritation with Windows, and the increasing incompatibilities of certain hardware components running under a PC setup.

So now I have a macbook, and almost everything is great.
I had to get office:mac for .doc documents and xl files. I have a hotmail address.
My only problems with the mac have been related to MSoffice software, which is forever having updates for security issues (de ja vu...), and which has crashed approximately 50% of the times it's been used.

I'm not sure a drop test onto concrete is a realistic test of reliability and return to operation. Yes, a pc will be fixable quickly in this situation. Once you have worked out if this grafix card is compatible with that bus, or this SP on windows. If the new chipset is going to have USB crashing issues. All stuff you have to keep current on.
Day to day reliability is significantly better with the mac.

[Keef]

Macs now seem to be like Jaguars were in the 1980s. Owners love 'em, even though they spend a large proportion of their time in being repaired.

My younger daughter is a Mac-freak. She and her husband have three of the things. I annoy her by saying "one to use, one waiting to go for repair, one at the repairers". But she still loves 'em. I've never used one, so have no opinion. My Windows PC and laptop and the old Linux clunker just work, and have done for years. Minor glitches get fixed quickly and easily.

She and I both had bad experiences with iPods (now sorted - both have been OK for almost a year). My brand-new one was faulty, and they then wanted me to send it away for repair. I had to get quite aggressive before they accepted that "faulty out of the box, brand new" = "I don't want that one at all. Send me another brand new one or my money back".

So ... Apple Customer Service "could do better".

[bnt]

I can understand going back to a PC, not so sure about Windows, though. OS X is UNIX-based, so I wonder if you might find Linux useful - something like Ubuntu or Fedora. Unless you have a lot of Windows applications, of course - but PC hardware no longer has to mean Windows exclusively.

[rotorcraig]

Give Ubuntu Linux a spin. In fact I've settled on Linux Mint which is an Ubuntu derivative that ships with all the MP3 and DVD codecs that Ubuntu leave for you to install yourself.

Discovered last night that the latest Skype for Linux now supports Beta Video Calls; installed and it worked with my Creative webcam first time ... now I'll *never* have to boot back into XP again

RC

[seekayess]

Binocs reaction is quite akin to being in Paris and deciding to go up the Eiffel Tower for the view.


It is quite an enjoyable view except that, due to some technical problem with the final lift, you are not able to go all the way up. The lady hostess there apologises for the inconvenience caused.


And you come away, fuming, fit to be tied down!


And then you advise all your friends never to go to France!


Quelle logic!!



. . . . and, GG believes all the 'horrid France' tales!!

[stagger]

In my experience many committed Mac users seem to get some sort of perverse pleasure from sharing stories of faults with each other and visiting Apple stores to get things fixed - it gives them an excuse to hang out with fellow Mac users.

Example...

I introduced one Mac user friend to another - he looked at the other guy's Macbook and said "Oh, my display hinge broke in just the same way as yours....." and they launched into a long conversation about the various faults they'd encountered and how they got them fixed. It was all very cheerful - they weren't moaning - it seemed like some sort of weird bonding process based on shared experiences.

One of these guys, whenever he comes to visit, invariably gets excited and makes a big deal about having to go to the Apple store to get something fixed. He actually seems to be pleased to have an excuse to go there.

In fact, every Mac user I know has needed to go to the Apple store to get something fixed on at least one occasion. And they don’t seem to resent it all that much.

There's something very strange going on with this brand.

[Lamenting Navigator]

Oh no, that's really sad. I'm about to upgrade to a new iBook after many years in a torrid Apple affair (PCs at work, Macs at home). OK, so some things are a bit of a mare, like PC users who can't understand I don't communicate the same way as them. But the committed prevail! I'm still in love with the G4, which despite being a tad grubby round the edges after travelling the world with me is running as well as it did when I got it four years ago. Just got my sticky mits on a i-phone this morning (a story for another day) and off to the Apple store to commit more Apple adultery by buying a new i-book.

[green granite]

nd, GG believes all the 'horrid France' tales!!

Not really, BUT I want a machine that, if it goes wrong after say 18 months, I can nip down to the nearest PC World and get a new bit to drop in, total time about 2hrs, not fart about taking it to a dealers rip off emporium. (that observation is not just based on Binos comments)

[Binoculars]

As always on forums, some take any post as an opportunity to air their own views without really having any interest in the content of the original post. I thank the likes of Apple Macster for the tremendously helpful advice they gave me when I was contemplating buying my first Mac, and in case the message didn't get through in my first post I'll repeat it. I have come to love the Mac experience and I most certainly did not post to rubbish Macs, because I believe they are superior to PC's in all sorts of ways.

The whole point of my post was to share my experience for the benefit of others, and that particular information concerned the quality of service but more importantly a sad acknowledgement of a couple of the points Mac critics like to jump on. One of those is that Mac owners tend to fall in love with the product so much they become defensive when problems are pointed out. The second point is that Apple seems to think they can get away with anything when it comes to service because... well, refer to point one.

In the final analysis a computer is a computer. We all have our own requirements and expectations, and mine are fairly uncomplicated. One of them happens to include an expectation that warranty or no warranty, a part costing the best part of the original cost of the whole computer should be expected to last more than 18 months. This is a long way from advising people not to go to France because of a bad experience at the Eiffel Tower.

Let's face it, I'm stuck with the thing because who's going to buy it? I just won't be leaping unthinkingly into the Apple barrel when it comes time to buy a new one. This experience is yours to take on board or disregard as you see fit.

[redsnail]

Binos, sorry to hear you've had troubles with your mac. Even sorrier to hear that you've been badly let down service wise.

[bnt]

Well, our own views naturally come out, because your general issue is hardly a new one, but different people have different experiences. You think this is the first time a computer company has seemed to have hardware problems like this? or trouble providing service? It's not as if Apple themselves actually make hardware: it's all farmed out, so if there are reliability problems this year, there will likely be a different OEM supplier next year. Dell and HP are the same - but Apple controls the hardware specs more tightly (or used to?), so I think Apple customers are right to have higher expectations of reliability, for the higher costs they pay. They position themselves as "the computer for the rest of us who don't like computers" - an appliance, like your washing machine or your TV.

I'm not really qualified to talk about Mac hardware, but I do have concerns about Apple's corporate behaviour (DRM, hardware lock-in, superiority complex). I am more qualified to talk about Microsoft Windows (I'm a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer in Windows Server), but that doesn't blind me to Microsoft's faults. IMHO Vista currently costs too much money and disruption for what it delivers - but I said the same about XP, back in 2001AD.

I've worked on PC servers for many years - until recently I worked for one of the big makers - and I find myself recommending Linux more these days, because I've had it up to here with paying a lot of money for stuff that should just work. Linux is hardly trouble-free, but you can't beat the price: you can afford to experiment. All I mean by this is: things change, and last year's heroes might be next year's zeroes.

[Nige321]

I have Macs and PCs sitting before me here, and have done for many years.
Apple isn't perfect, but I have always found Apples employees to be courteous and helpful - perhaps Binoculars needs to talk to his local store in a different frame of mind, or try another store...
As for the hardware, a lot of Apples manufacturing is now outsourced and that has caused some reliability probs in the last few years. Their operating system has to be the best around - it's as secure as any OS can be.

(DRM, hardware lock-in, superiority complex).

Bnt
DRM isn't Apples idea, it's the music companies (Apple was the first to remove DRM...) . Hardware lock in - yes please, at least I know if I buy a piece of software or hardware for the Mac, IT WILL WORK! The same cannot be said of the PC... And Mac OSX doesn't have any of the registration cr@p that MS puts us through., (Software Lock In...!?)
N

[tallsandwich]

Apple was the first to remove DRM

Oh yes, but only after a Skandinavian country protested about the iTunes/iPod anti-trust situation and the EU then decided to make a case about it...only then did Apple act, in fear.

Having a dominant poistion in one market (mp3 players) and then forcing users to manage their purchased music on Apple iTunes and iPod only (to kill off the competition) is parallel to having a dominant poistion in the OS market and ensuring that everyone gets an internet brower for free (to kill off the competition). The former is of course Apple and the latter of course M/S.

Finally OSX is not as secure as any OS can be, it has a reputation to be virus safe but that is mainly thanks to its small market share (hackers go for the biggest target) and Apple's lack of flexibility that permits tighter controls. Mac users willingly suffer that lack of flexibility and choice. Either way, the Mac experience will continue to get more and more security problems. A secure OS that was "as secure as an OS could be" would perhaps have the name "Trusted Solaris", it is certainly not OSX.

I regularly review my poistion to see if there is Mac hardware or OS that suits me, so far the advantages of compatibility and flexibilty that comes with Windows has always won my vote, despite the extra effort that may be needed to keep a machine in a reliable config - most of this effort is discipline.

Both companies and their products are equally bad.