OK Mac fans, here's your chance
Just Binos
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OK Mac fans, here's your chance
Retirement is in my sights. I have two tax deductible laptops left in me. I am fed up with Windows XP and its clunky file management system, and I am happy to take the word of all the Mac nerds that their system really is much more, well, whatever. User-friendly for want of a better word. I'm toying with the idea, as I have been for some time, of changing to Apple. Software compatibility is the main issue I suppose, but also network compatibility with my Dell desktops.
Are all the problems solved these days? Can someone with thousands of word.doc files tracing back to the days of DOS transfer seamlessly to the world of Apple? Is there really a justification for paying, let's face it, almost twice the price of a similarly equipped Windows machine, or is it a fashion statement?
Can somebody please direct me to the best site for answering all the questions that a long term Windows user would have in relation to switching?
Are all the problems solved these days? Can someone with thousands of word.doc files tracing back to the days of DOS transfer seamlessly to the world of Apple? Is there really a justification for paying, let's face it, almost twice the price of a similarly equipped Windows machine, or is it a fashion statement?
Can somebody please direct me to the best site for answering all the questions that a long term Windows user would have in relation to switching?
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Don't do it - they're rubbish
Regards,
Rob
PS - If you go to strange, naughty places on the internet you can download a fully functioning version of the Mac operating system for intel. That's right - for your PC and in the 'things you weren't supposed to know' category there has been an intel version of all 4 generations of Mac OSX so far.
However, like the early days of linux, it's a bit fussy about peripherals - but in this case because that's how Apple keep it simple and their customers have no idea what things like video drivers are.
If that is a problem there's an intermediary piece of software (vm-ware I think) that mimics standard hardware so OSX will work.
PPS Word for Mac is probably the most bug free, stable and elegant full fat program Redmond has ever produced.
Regards,
Rob
PS - If you go to strange, naughty places on the internet you can download a fully functioning version of the Mac operating system for intel. That's right - for your PC and in the 'things you weren't supposed to know' category there has been an intel version of all 4 generations of Mac OSX so far.
However, like the early days of linux, it's a bit fussy about peripherals - but in this case because that's how Apple keep it simple and their customers have no idea what things like video drivers are.
If that is a problem there's an intermediary piece of software (vm-ware I think) that mimics standard hardware so OSX will work.
PPS Word for Mac is probably the most bug free, stable and elegant full fat program Redmond has ever produced.
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Bino,
Here's a link you may find useful:
http://www.macwindows.com/tutfiles.html
A few things to think about - Windows Vista is now in Beta, and MS are promising a new file system (although it is unlikely to make it into the first release of Vista). Vista will still allow much greater flexibility in organising data than current Win O/S - allegedly - so it may be worth reading about what MS have in the pipeline.
Bear in mind that Apple recently announced that it is switching from IBM Power PC to intel processors. Add to that the fact that OSX is basically UNIX and what have you got? x86 Linux, with a proprietary interface, effectively. At least with Linux you get to choose what hardware and even what bits of the software you want! Yes, I know there is more to it than that ;-)
While I have a great deal of respect for Apple's reliability, stemming as it does from a completely closed, proprietary hardware and software architecture, I have always mistrusted on principle an O/S that ejected a floppy disk by dragging it to the bin!
Seriously, having been brought up with the strict discipline of file structures (files in folders in drawers in filing cabinets in rooms), the Apple MAC approach seemed to be "just open the door and chuck the file in!"
My cousin bought a MAC laptop a few years ago and initially thought it was great, so easy to use. Now she has bought a Wintel laptop. Why? Because it was impossible to get the software she needed for the MAC. That is likely to be the most irritating aspect of MAC ownership - that , and paying over the odds for almost every (proprietary) thing.
SD
Here's a link you may find useful:
http://www.macwindows.com/tutfiles.html
A few things to think about - Windows Vista is now in Beta, and MS are promising a new file system (although it is unlikely to make it into the first release of Vista). Vista will still allow much greater flexibility in organising data than current Win O/S - allegedly - so it may be worth reading about what MS have in the pipeline.
Bear in mind that Apple recently announced that it is switching from IBM Power PC to intel processors. Add to that the fact that OSX is basically UNIX and what have you got? x86 Linux, with a proprietary interface, effectively. At least with Linux you get to choose what hardware and even what bits of the software you want! Yes, I know there is more to it than that ;-)
While I have a great deal of respect for Apple's reliability, stemming as it does from a completely closed, proprietary hardware and software architecture, I have always mistrusted on principle an O/S that ejected a floppy disk by dragging it to the bin!
Seriously, having been brought up with the strict discipline of file structures (files in folders in drawers in filing cabinets in rooms), the Apple MAC approach seemed to be "just open the door and chuck the file in!"
My cousin bought a MAC laptop a few years ago and initially thought it was great, so easy to use. Now she has bought a Wintel laptop. Why? Because it was impossible to get the software she needed for the MAC. That is likely to be the most irritating aspect of MAC ownership - that , and paying over the odds for almost every (proprietary) thing.
SD
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Binos .. Reddo used to seriously bag me for years about being a mac user .. until she recently bought one .. may I suggest chatting with her .. she would be the best/recent convert to the other side.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Ahhh yes, but I don't drink much. 
Macs are pure genius I have to admit. As soon as I feasibly can I am going to consign FRED to Checkers games desires and buy myself a G5 Imac... Pure drool factor. Will probably upgrade the cute lil iBook after the Intel change over and definitely want either a Nano or a new full power iPod.
I am a convert.
Bino's (SM's looking very well) I can't answer your q re ye olde anciente DOS word stuff. Office for Mac is amazing though. Incredibly stable and easy to use programme. Note, very few if any viruses are written for the mac.
Yes they are a tad on the exy side but you do get what you pay for. With a mac it just works. If you're a tinkerer and like to fiddle with graphics cards and the like and the following bun fight with getting the drivers to work then you'll find the mac.. well, boring. However, if you like things to work as advertised... mac's the go. No question.
Note, the laptops (eg the ibook) bang for buck wise is bloody hard to beat.
Macs are pure genius I have to admit. As soon as I feasibly can I am going to consign FRED to Checkers games desires and buy myself a G5 Imac... Pure drool factor. Will probably upgrade the cute lil iBook after the Intel change over and definitely want either a Nano or a new full power iPod.
I am a convert.
Bino's (SM's looking very well) I can't answer your q re ye olde anciente DOS word stuff. Office for Mac is amazing though. Incredibly stable and easy to use programme. Note, very few if any viruses are written for the mac.
Yes they are a tad on the exy side but you do get what you pay for. With a mac it just works. If you're a tinkerer and like to fiddle with graphics cards and the like and the following bun fight with getting the drivers to work then you'll find the mac.. well, boring. However, if you like things to work as advertised... mac's the go. No question.
Note, the laptops (eg the ibook) bang for buck wise is bloody hard to beat.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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I've just finished my first year with a Mac (G5 iMac, OS X Tiger with a gig of memory) and quite frankly, it's brilliant. Wierd for a couple of weeks while you find out where everything is, then if you want to just use a computer it's getting near perfection.
If you're a hobbyist who wants to build it, tweak the hardware and rebuild it again, then it's probably not for you. Personally I have to faff around with the bl**dy things all day at work, when I get home I want my computer to just work. And it does
If you're a hobbyist who wants to build it, tweak the hardware and rebuild it again, then it's probably not for you. Personally I have to faff around with the bl**dy things all day at work, when I get home I want my computer to just work. And it does
Just Binos
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Not a hobbyist at all, Evo. Something that just works sounds good to me! Saab Dastard's link seems to indicate there is no problem with cross-platform networking as a basic principle, so Mrs B can stick with the Windows computer.
But what about my MS Office files? It appears AppleWorks is the default word processing software on new Macs. Are MS Office files fully compatible with the basic software or will I have to buy Word for Mac?
Lastly, I was just looking at the G5 iMac on the apple website. They don't show a case; is everything really contained in that one piece?
But what about my MS Office files? It appears AppleWorks is the default word processing software on new Macs. Are MS Office files fully compatible with the basic software or will I have to buy Word for Mac?
Lastly, I was just looking at the G5 iMac on the apple website. They don't show a case; is everything really contained in that one piece?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Everything is built into the monitor. It is recommended to get the Bluetooth and Airport build to order options at purchase as upgrading is difficult. The graphics cannot be upgraded at all. If using a Bluetooth mouse/keyboard, the only thing to plug in is the power lead.
Last edited by ORAC; 19th Oct 2005 at 12:03.
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ORAC
Both of the latest iMacs have Airport Extreme (Wireless 802.11g) and Bluetooth 2.0 built in, so no need to add these to an order build any more.
Binos
The included AppleWorks 6 will work with Word files but they will lose formatting when opened. Once worked on, they can be saved as Word documents if required.
This is a satisfactory arrangement for some people, but I'd go for MS Office if you can. Micro$oft's Mac software is of a high standard and compatibility with PC versions of Office is pretty much seamless.
Cross-platform networking is pretty easy to set up in either direction. I'm currently running a 2 Ghz G5 iMac and a Dell Latitude X300* laptop running XP Pro side by side, with fast reciprocal links over a wireless network. They also share the same broadband connection via a wireless router with no issues.
Saab D
What was your cuz trying to do? It must have been a real niche product she required. There are heaps and heaps of Mac programs for almost every application you can think of.
The only area where it's generally acknowledged that the Mac is lacking is games, although this is set to change with the Intel move. I'm not really a gamer so this doesn't affect me.
Jx
*Yes... even Macistas have to use them sometimes!
Both of the latest iMacs have Airport Extreme (Wireless 802.11g) and Bluetooth 2.0 built in, so no need to add these to an order build any more.
Binos
The included AppleWorks 6 will work with Word files but they will lose formatting when opened. Once worked on, they can be saved as Word documents if required.
This is a satisfactory arrangement for some people, but I'd go for MS Office if you can. Micro$oft's Mac software is of a high standard and compatibility with PC versions of Office is pretty much seamless.
Cross-platform networking is pretty easy to set up in either direction. I'm currently running a 2 Ghz G5 iMac and a Dell Latitude X300* laptop running XP Pro side by side, with fast reciprocal links over a wireless network. They also share the same broadband connection via a wireless router with no issues.
Saab D
Now she has bought a Wintel laptop. Why? Because it was impossible to get the software she needed for the MAC.
The only area where it's generally acknowledged that the Mac is lacking is games, although this is set to change with the Intel move. I'm not really a gamer so this doesn't affect me.
Jx
*Yes... even Macistas have to use them sometimes!
Last edited by WeatherJinx; 19th Oct 2005 at 17:11.
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You don't have to search too far back to find posts by me querying if a Mac could be as good as the faithful claim, but after a year with one I really can't overstate how good I think they are as a general purpose computer. If all you want are the general tasks - internet, email, music, photos + video, word processing, that sort of thing - then it's a revelation. If you've got specialist software needs, like tweaking the hardware or are a dedicated games player, then it's probably not for you.
I have MS Office on the Mac, and have never had any problems with sharing files with Windows. Likewise, it just figured out the Windows LAN and connects to shared drives etc. without problems.
I have MS Office on the Mac, and have never had any problems with sharing files with Windows. Likewise, it just figured out the Windows LAN and connects to shared drives etc. without problems.
Just Binos
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OK, thanks all. I'm borrowing an old iMac for a couple of weeks to play with and get a general feel for, but I can feel myself being swayed. Don't think Mrs B will be too impressed with the idea since a new Dell only arrived a few months ago. But those G5 iMacs are a lovely bit of kit, and if I can clean up a couple of kilometres of cables plugs and leads currently entangled on my desk and claim it's because of the new poota, well....... 
Still bugs me that my trusty Office 97, which is all I could ever want as an office suite, will have to be replaced by an overpriced piece of M$ gear. Does anybody use Open Office for Mac and have any comments on it?
Still bugs me that my trusty Office 97, which is all I could ever want as an office suite, will have to be replaced by an overpriced piece of M$ gear. Does anybody use Open Office for Mac and have any comments on it?
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OpenOffice is okay. The Apple shop in London was pushing educational copies of Microsoft Office when I was in there a few months ago, saying that as "almost any qualified for one then you might as well just buy that". This wasn't an individual salesperson, this was in one of their theatre demos. It's about a £120 I think.
Which bits of Office do you actually use? "Pages" is much nicer for doing some types of word processing.
An old iMac might be a bit slow, so don't judge on that basis. And while the new G5 ones are great, don't underestimate the Mac Mini (with some extra memory perhaps) if you've got a decent screen already. It's so small that with luck Mrs B won't even notice you've bought it.
Which bits of Office do you actually use? "Pages" is much nicer for doing some types of word processing.
An old iMac might be a bit slow, so don't judge on that basis. And while the new G5 ones are great, don't underestimate the Mac Mini (with some extra memory perhaps) if you've got a decent screen already. It's so small that with luck Mrs B won't even notice you've bought it.
Just Binos
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Thanks, Drauk, I was wondering about the Mac Mini. It's a little difficult on first glance to see what it lacks that the iMac has, but I'll certainly be chasing up on that. I'm particularly ignorant on the whole wireless concept and need to read up on Wireless for dummies before making any decision. Gee that inbuilt webcam on the latest iMac is a gimmick and a half, isn't it? 
I'll be using the borrowed iMac only to get a handle on the Mac way of doing everyday tasks, since I've never so much as sat in front of one. I know the G5 will be considerably upmarket.
Office? Look, to be quite honest, Word accounts for 90% of my requirements. I keep a few very basic spreadsheets on financial matters going back ten or twelve years, but if the truth be known AppleWorks would be more than adequate for them by a factor of about 100. Similarly for any database I might need to start. It's just all those thousands of Word files of mine, Mrs B's and all the Binoettes' school assignments etc. What is Pages? Is that on Office for Mac or on AppleWorks?
I'll be using the borrowed iMac only to get a handle on the Mac way of doing everyday tasks, since I've never so much as sat in front of one. I know the G5 will be considerably upmarket.
Office? Look, to be quite honest, Word accounts for 90% of my requirements. I keep a few very basic spreadsheets on financial matters going back ten or twelve years, but if the truth be known AppleWorks would be more than adequate for them by a factor of about 100. Similarly for any database I might need to start. It's just all those thousands of Word files of mine, Mrs B's and all the Binoettes' school assignments etc. What is Pages? Is that on Office for Mac or on AppleWorks?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Just Binos
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I see. Thank you ORAC. It is rare to find such a masterpiece of nudge nudge wink wink talk. Most impressive, and thanks to Sun.
I am at present engaged in high level negotiations with a multi-national distributor of suitable Office equipment, and I am confident a suitable solution will be found. Thank you all for your help in that regard.
Now, off to research MiniMac.
I am at present engaged in high level negotiations with a multi-national distributor of suitable Office equipment, and I am confident a suitable solution will be found. Thank you all for your help in that regard.
Now, off to research MiniMac.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Reviews I have seen of the Mac Mini say it OK if you intend to reuse an existing monitor, keyboard, mouse etc, but it is cheaper to buy another Mac model rather than buy MiniMac and add the other components.
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Binos
Pages is Apple's standalone word processor - part of their evolving iWork project, (along with it's sibling Keynote, a superb presentation app that in many ways is superior to PowerPoint, but still has some way to go to match it for versatility).
My feeling is that these two apps, together with an oft-rumored spreadsheet program (they have trademarked the name 'Numbers'), will eventually form the basis of a replacement for the ageing AppleWorks suite. This may take some time however - Apple is walking on eggshells wih this, so as not to p*iss off the Evil Empire - the loss of Office for Mac could cause a lot of damaging fallout for Jobs & Co.
Pages is Apple's standalone word processor - part of their evolving iWork project, (along with it's sibling Keynote, a superb presentation app that in many ways is superior to PowerPoint, but still has some way to go to match it for versatility).
My feeling is that these two apps, together with an oft-rumored spreadsheet program (they have trademarked the name 'Numbers'), will eventually form the basis of a replacement for the ageing AppleWorks suite. This may take some time however - Apple is walking on eggshells wih this, so as not to p*iss off the Evil Empire - the loss of Office for Mac could cause a lot of damaging fallout for Jobs & Co.
Just Binos
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Pages sounds perfect for my needs. AppleWorks would be more than ample to cover my database/spreadsheet requirements. But since I can't find any reference to Pages on iMac, I assume it's also an paid for extra?
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you got it, unfortunately...
I remember when i got my new iMac home a couple of months ago, eyeing the box to see if it was included (I hadn't bothered to check beforehand).
The disappointment when I found out it wasn't bundled in was soon compensated for by the inclusion of the wonderful Garageband.
I'm sure you and the Binoettes will have a great time knocking some tunes out with this highly addictive little app
I remember when i got my new iMac home a couple of months ago, eyeing the box to see if it was included (I hadn't bothered to check beforehand).
The disappointment when I found out it wasn't bundled in was soon compensated for by the inclusion of the wonderful Garageband.
I'm sure you and the Binoettes will have a great time knocking some tunes out with this highly addictive little app