Home Networking
I'm Just A Lawnmower
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Home Networking
The BALIX houshold is about to come alive to the patter of tiny bytes again. In April we become a two PC houshold and I'm already bracing myself for sleepless nights caused by teething problems and the like.
It is my intention to network the new arrival to my trusty two year old so that they can share the single printer and, more importantly, the internet connection. Now, I know that there is the choice of wired and wireless networking and that you need a gizmo for each computer and a thingumybob in the middle but beyond that I'm left looking at the shelves of PC World with a vaguely confused expression on my face.
So, can anyone help? Here's something to go on. The old PC has a 1.7GHz processor, the new on will have 2.8 of those lovely gigahertz. Both will be running Windows XP Home edition. They will be situated in upstairs bedrooms separated by a couple of Wimpey (ie, thin) plasterboard walls. Going through the walls with a wire is not an option as said wire would decapitate anyone going down the stairs and though I could go up and over I'm not too keen on drilling any holes in the celing. In other words, I'd prefer the wireless option unless it is either crap or prohibitively expensive.
My ISP is Freeserve Broadband and a quick look at their website suggests that they don't like the idea of networking a single connection. However, I'd rather change than pay the bugas twice.
Any other clues and hints would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
It is my intention to network the new arrival to my trusty two year old so that they can share the single printer and, more importantly, the internet connection. Now, I know that there is the choice of wired and wireless networking and that you need a gizmo for each computer and a thingumybob in the middle but beyond that I'm left looking at the shelves of PC World with a vaguely confused expression on my face.
So, can anyone help? Here's something to go on. The old PC has a 1.7GHz processor, the new on will have 2.8 of those lovely gigahertz. Both will be running Windows XP Home edition. They will be situated in upstairs bedrooms separated by a couple of Wimpey (ie, thin) plasterboard walls. Going through the walls with a wire is not an option as said wire would decapitate anyone going down the stairs and though I could go up and over I'm not too keen on drilling any holes in the celing. In other words, I'd prefer the wireless option unless it is either crap or prohibitively expensive.
My ISP is Freeserve Broadband and a quick look at their website suggests that they don't like the idea of networking a single connection. However, I'd rather change than pay the bugas twice.
Any other clues and hints would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Balix,
Its relatively straight forward to do. What you need is a Wireless Broadband Router/Firewall. Netgear do a nice flying saucer shaped one that does the job http://www.netgear.co.uk/html/prod_r...dsl_dg834g.htm it even has a four port Ethernet switch. You will also need a network card for each PC that you want to connect. If the new one comes with an Ethernet port built in, so much the better you plug straight into the 834. A word of warning, if you use wireless you MUST put the WEP encryption on, or you'll broadcast to the world.
Don't worry about FreeServe, they have no way of knowing how many computers are using the ADSL, the beauty of the router.
Its relatively straight forward to do. What you need is a Wireless Broadband Router/Firewall. Netgear do a nice flying saucer shaped one that does the job http://www.netgear.co.uk/html/prod_r...dsl_dg834g.htm it even has a four port Ethernet switch. You will also need a network card for each PC that you want to connect. If the new one comes with an Ethernet port built in, so much the better you plug straight into the 834. A word of warning, if you use wireless you MUST put the WEP encryption on, or you'll broadcast to the world.
Don't worry about FreeServe, they have no way of knowing how many computers are using the ADSL, the beauty of the router.
You can share the broadband connection with a decent piece of kit which integrates the LAN connection, ADSL connection and wireless as well - a so called ADSL router.
If you want wires, then the cost for the kit is cheaper, and you'll probably find your computers have Ethernet cards already built in.
If you DON'T want wires, then you'll deffo need a wireless part somewhere - either integrated or an additional cable-linked bit. Each PC you wish to be wireless - probably one, since you can run a short cable to the one in the same room as the router - will need an addin card with a wireless adapter.
Either way, the principle of then connecting them together to share printer/files is the same.
Example ADSL routers, with all the relevant kit are:
Netgear DG834G
Belkin 802.11G ADSL router
Linksys equivalent
If you want wires, then the cost for the kit is cheaper, and you'll probably find your computers have Ethernet cards already built in.
If you DON'T want wires, then you'll deffo need a wireless part somewhere - either integrated or an additional cable-linked bit. Each PC you wish to be wireless - probably one, since you can run a short cable to the one in the same room as the router - will need an addin card with a wireless adapter.
Either way, the principle of then connecting them together to share printer/files is the same.
Example ADSL routers, with all the relevant kit are:
Netgear DG834G
Belkin 802.11G ADSL router
Linksys equivalent
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Without going too deeply into technical matters, you should check that the router has the possibility to restrict the wireless access to explicitly declared computers only (so that neighbours or passers-by do not use your internet access to connect - when they go surfing, they are seen as yourself by your ISP and you may not like that)
Another good point using such a router is that they usually come with a built-in firewall.
The Netgear stuff does it all
WEP encryption will only protect you from eavesdropping (not a very strong algoritm, but good enough for home use)
Found on the Netgear website, "10 Steps to Wireless Security" - Guide to taking steps to protect your wireless network and a glossary (both in PDF format, you will need Acrobat Reader)
Another good point using such a router is that they usually come with a built-in firewall.
The Netgear stuff does it all
WEP encryption will only protect you from eavesdropping (not a very strong algoritm, but good enough for home use)
Found on the Netgear website, "10 Steps to Wireless Security" - Guide to taking steps to protect your wireless network and a glossary (both in PDF format, you will need Acrobat Reader)
Last edited by Bre901; 19th Mar 2004 at 13:20.
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I went through this exercise a few months ago. It's possible that your new machine will have a network card already installed. That will save you a bit of money. You'll have to buy a wireless router and a wireless card for your other machine.
Basically, you plug the telephone line into the router. That's your link with the net, and as far as your ISP is concerned, your only link with them. Now make a wired connection to the router from your main machine, and set up a wireless connection to the router from the other PC.
I use a D-Link 604+ router and wireless card. Your best bet is to find a friendly computer concern that knows what it's doing. I'm lucky to have a local Antechs shop, and the guy there is incredibly helpful. Look for a local small supplier, not necessarily a high st shop.
Incidentally, it's also useful if in future you buy a laptop - you also buy a wireless card for it (it will be different to the one you install in the PC) and you can surf away and access the drives of the other machines to your heart's content whilst sitting in the lounge with She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed. It kinda makes for more domestic harmony, if you know what I mean - not diappearing to the office for a few minutes that turn into hours!
It's also worth doing a search of this forum using 'wireless network' as the search parameter - there has been a fair amount of wireless discussion in the past 6 months. Note particularly the advice and links given by Richard from the Naples Air Centre - he has a comprehensive handle on the subject, and his links are especially informative.
Good luck, and remember, there is a wealth of experienced individuals, regular forum contributers, who can help you through any difficulties.
FJJP
Basically, you plug the telephone line into the router. That's your link with the net, and as far as your ISP is concerned, your only link with them. Now make a wired connection to the router from your main machine, and set up a wireless connection to the router from the other PC.
I use a D-Link 604+ router and wireless card. Your best bet is to find a friendly computer concern that knows what it's doing. I'm lucky to have a local Antechs shop, and the guy there is incredibly helpful. Look for a local small supplier, not necessarily a high st shop.
Incidentally, it's also useful if in future you buy a laptop - you also buy a wireless card for it (it will be different to the one you install in the PC) and you can surf away and access the drives of the other machines to your heart's content whilst sitting in the lounge with She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed. It kinda makes for more domestic harmony, if you know what I mean - not diappearing to the office for a few minutes that turn into hours!
It's also worth doing a search of this forum using 'wireless network' as the search parameter - there has been a fair amount of wireless discussion in the past 6 months. Note particularly the advice and links given by Richard from the Naples Air Centre - he has a comprehensive handle on the subject, and his links are especially informative.
Good luck, and remember, there is a wealth of experienced individuals, regular forum contributers, who can help you through any difficulties.
FJJP
Last edited by FJJP; 20th Mar 2004 at 08:10.
I'm Just A Lawnmower
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Thanks people.
It seems as though the new computer will have an ethernet port though I'm pretty certain the old one doesn't. The new one will be in a room without a telephone line so that will be the one that has the wireless connection with the ADSL router sitting next to the old one.
Just one point - does the ADSL router allow the two machines to talk to each other or does it simply split the internet connection?
Once all the hardware is up and running, what happens to the e mails? Will they be downloaded to both PCs or is it possible to send specific messages to specific inboxes? Sorry to sound a bit thick in these matters.
It seems as though the new computer will have an ethernet port though I'm pretty certain the old one doesn't. The new one will be in a room without a telephone line so that will be the one that has the wireless connection with the ADSL router sitting next to the old one.
Just one point - does the ADSL router allow the two machines to talk to each other or does it simply split the internet connection?
Once all the hardware is up and running, what happens to the e mails? Will they be downloaded to both PCs or is it possible to send specific messages to specific inboxes? Sorry to sound a bit thick in these matters.
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An ADSL wireless access point/router will allow the two machines to talk to each other.
You ask if they will "split" the Internet connection. For the most part they will share the connection's pipeline pretty much transparently, ie they will independently access the internet with a user on each machine able to do his/her own thing without interfering with the other until the total of their demands exceeds the bandwidth you've paid for. At that point the sharing of the pipeline becomes evident.
That is, the pipe to your place is only so big. If a person on one computer wants to do something that uses all the available capacity of the pipe, such as download a big file, and then another person on the other computer wants to do the same thing, then each will run at half speed. But with two people simply surfing, each will hardly be aware of the other's presence because surfing generally doesn't "suck much out of the pipe".
Re emails - with Windows basic email such as Outlook Express, generally the email stays with the computer that collects it.
Having said that, most email clients, including OE, allow you to choose to leave the email on your ISP's server (that is not the default - you have to choose to do it). This allows you to go back with another computer and download it again, thus giving you a copy of the email on both computers.
Also, different email clients allow backup, import and export of emails in different ways, so you can transfer emails between machines, the method depending on the client you use.
If you're using Outlook Express, check here
AA
You ask if they will "split" the Internet connection. For the most part they will share the connection's pipeline pretty much transparently, ie they will independently access the internet with a user on each machine able to do his/her own thing without interfering with the other until the total of their demands exceeds the bandwidth you've paid for. At that point the sharing of the pipeline becomes evident.
That is, the pipe to your place is only so big. If a person on one computer wants to do something that uses all the available capacity of the pipe, such as download a big file, and then another person on the other computer wants to do the same thing, then each will run at half speed. But with two people simply surfing, each will hardly be aware of the other's presence because surfing generally doesn't "suck much out of the pipe".
Re emails - with Windows basic email such as Outlook Express, generally the email stays with the computer that collects it.
Having said that, most email clients, including OE, allow you to choose to leave the email on your ISP's server (that is not the default - you have to choose to do it). This allows you to go back with another computer and download it again, thus giving you a copy of the email on both computers.
Also, different email clients allow backup, import and export of emails in different ways, so you can transfer emails between machines, the method depending on the client you use.
If you're using Outlook Express, check here
AA
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Did exactly that a couple of weeks ago. I had some initial problems with the security settings in XP Pro (thanks to the folks on here who sorted me out).
The wireless networking worked "out of the box", with a second-hand Netgear wireless access point connected to the existing ADSL 4-point router, and an 802.11b card for the laptop.
It really was easy. I turned on WEP once I'd got it working, and that too was easy.
Now I sit downstairs, in the lounge or in the kitchen, and do the e-mail on the laptop. Way to go!
The wireless networking worked "out of the box", with a second-hand Netgear wireless access point connected to the existing ADSL 4-point router, and an 802.11b card for the laptop.
It really was easy. I turned on WEP once I'd got it working, and that too was easy.
Now I sit downstairs, in the lounge or in the kitchen, and do the e-mail on the laptop. Way to go!
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It is possible to set up outlook to used one directory to store email addresses, calendar etc. I have done this at home so that when the Kids are on one computer I can still get my email on the other and not have stuff stored every where. Its does depend which version of outlook that is being used, I will check out my setup when I get home and try to dig up some more info.
And if we're on the subject, my missus originally used the upstairs desktop, and occasionally used the lappy downstairs. To keep her "My Documents" synchronised, we kept the original on the desktop, shared it, then we arranged for the shared drive to be mapped to drive T: on the lappy under her login, and "My Documents" on the lappy was pointed to the T: drive and the T: drive synchronised.
Sounds involved, but there's only a few reasonably straightforward steps and if you want it documented I can - just be prepared to wait a few days.
Sounds involved, but there's only a few reasonably straightforward steps and if you want it documented I can - just be prepared to wait a few days.
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I would like to connect a PC and a Power Mac to the same Broadband source (NTL). Does the advice given above apply to such a set up?
I've never taken the Mac apart and have no idea where a network card is fitted in a Mac G4.
cheers
SS
I've never taken the Mac apart and have no idea where a network card is fitted in a Mac G4.
cheers
SS
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Stan Sted,
Networking the Mac souldn't be a problem as far as hardware goes. Every Mac made in the last 5-7 years or so has a built in ethernet connection. The software side is usually easy to set up as you don't often have to do much, unless you have special network settings. You just need to plug both into the same router, and it everything should be good. I've got 2 Macs and 2 PCs networked at home, and they can all share a networked Epson printer. Keep posting questions though if you are having trouble and someone here would be glad to help out.
goates
Networking the Mac souldn't be a problem as far as hardware goes. Every Mac made in the last 5-7 years or so has a built in ethernet connection. The software side is usually easy to set up as you don't often have to do much, unless you have special network settings. You just need to plug both into the same router, and it everything should be good. I've got 2 Macs and 2 PCs networked at home, and they can all share a networked Epson printer. Keep posting questions though if you are having trouble and someone here would be glad to help out.
goates
Last edited by goates; 22nd Mar 2004 at 19:01.
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Just read an article in PC Pro magazine which is the best guide to wireless setup I have seen.
One problem I had (and don't understand) is that I had to turn a service off - Zero Wireless Configuration (on Win XP Home). The name suggests that it should be running but it must confict with the manufacturers software.
One problem I had (and don't understand) is that I had to turn a service off - Zero Wireless Configuration (on Win XP Home). The name suggests that it should be running but it must confict with the manufacturers software.
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Stan Sted,
Your Mac and PC can both use TCP/IP to communicate to the internet via a shared home network (which is hardware and operating system independent) and broadband router.
Obviously they will need to be configured (each in their own way) to access the network using DHCP or fixed IP address.
What they can't do is talk to each other (e.g. to share files or applications) without installing additional software on one or both computers to allow interaction at an operating system level.
HTH
SD
Your Mac and PC can both use TCP/IP to communicate to the internet via a shared home network (which is hardware and operating system independent) and broadband router.
Obviously they will need to be configured (each in their own way) to access the network using DHCP or fixed IP address.
What they can't do is talk to each other (e.g. to share files or applications) without installing additional software on one or both computers to allow interaction at an operating system level.
HTH
SD
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I thought that OS X included software for filesharing with Windows, but maybe not. Another way to get around that is to set up a FTP server on each computer, which would allow you to use see the other computer as if it were on the internet. As Saab Dastard siad though, getting each to see the internet will just be a matter of setting up the TCP/IP settings according to each operating system.
goates
goates
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goates,
You may well be right about OSX and windows - I've not worked with Macs for a few years now. You know, I was going to mention FTP as well - funny that.
SD
You may well be right about OSX and windows - I've not worked with Macs for a few years now. You know, I was going to mention FTP as well - funny that.
SD
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Thanks for your advice folks but, ermmmmm...what is FTP? I'm not a computer techie and have no idea what you mean.
I'm not too bothered about the Mac and PC talking together so I'll settle to hook them up to one router.
Wire or wireless? That's the next question. The machines are only about 12ft apart and separated by one wall so a wire would be easy enough to hide. In the fullness of time, however, I would like to get a laptop and also bung that on the same router and use it upstairs or downstairs around the house. So wireless might be favourite.
Anyone know how to fit a wireless receiver card in the back of a Mac. Please bear in mind that I have never taken apart a Mac before but have had the odd fiddle inside a PC to add memory, new graphic cards and remove son's biscuit crumbs etc.
cheers
SS
I'm not too bothered about the Mac and PC talking together so I'll settle to hook them up to one router.
Wire or wireless? That's the next question. The machines are only about 12ft apart and separated by one wall so a wire would be easy enough to hide. In the fullness of time, however, I would like to get a laptop and also bung that on the same router and use it upstairs or downstairs around the house. So wireless might be favourite.
Anyone know how to fit a wireless receiver card in the back of a Mac. Please bear in mind that I have never taken apart a Mac before but have had the odd fiddle inside a PC to add memory, new graphic cards and remove son's biscuit crumbs etc.
cheers
SS
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For the Mac you should just have to get an Airport card (Apple's wireless networking cards). Otherwise you would need to install a PCI wireless card like in a PC. For the most part all Macs made in the last couple of years use the same hardware as PCs do. It's no harder to do, and quite often is easier than many PCs when it comes to adding internal hardware.
FTP stands for file transfer protocol, and is what many sites use to transfer files on the internet. This used to be the cheapest way to get older Macs and Windows computers to share files, but I am pretty sure OS X includes software to allow the two to see each other directly. I don't have an OS X computer though, so I can't help too much with that part. As you noted though, it would just be easier at this point to get each one onto the internet.
Good luck and keep us posted.
goates
FTP stands for file transfer protocol, and is what many sites use to transfer files on the internet. This used to be the cheapest way to get older Macs and Windows computers to share files, but I am pretty sure OS X includes software to allow the two to see each other directly. I don't have an OS X computer though, so I can't help too much with that part. As you noted though, it would just be easier at this point to get each one onto the internet.
Good luck and keep us posted.
goates
I'm Just A Lawnmower
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Just to bring this thread up to date, the new PC has arrived safe and sound and is connected to the internet by means of a Netgear DSL Router DG834G. Cracking bit of kit, isn't it? A wired ethernet USB adaptor to the old (my) computer and a wireless USB adaptor to the new (my son's) PC completed the job with remarkably little fuss as you had all said.
Having installed the hardware, XP's networking wizard made file sharing a doddle and although I haven't tried it yet, I believe the new PC has been set up to use the printer of the old PC.
Result
Thanks again for the advice.
Having installed the hardware, XP's networking wizard made file sharing a doddle and although I haven't tried it yet, I believe the new PC has been set up to use the printer of the old PC.
Result
Thanks again for the advice.