Mass exodus at TAM
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Due to the fact that TAM and others brazilian airline are hiring with the must of the Nationality, is it possible to be elegible to work with RNE? I just called the Brazilian Embassy here in Italy and they said that I can work with all rights. The only thing I couldn't do is voting. But I will receive full documents along with CEP.
Is it correct?
Thank you in advance.
Is it correct?
Thank you in advance.
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is it possible to be elegible to work with RNE?
) it is citizens only, either by birth or naturalization, in civil aviation (and some other industries). With an RNE you can live and work here, but not as a commercial pilot.Expats can work in very unusual cases and then only on a temporary basis until a national is suitably qualified. IIRC the last situation was offshore heavy helicopter flying in RJ or ES, however regular line flying for a local airline doesn't fall into this category.
TTFN
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Now for foreigns it is even harder, you can`t get the license unless you speak Portuguese. When I got my CCF back in 2009 and you were able to do it in English, now you can`t anymore...the license will say Portuguese prof.
If you have the RNE and you get the CPL, it will say on the license that you can`t work....I`m sure you can find some kind of job, small taxi companies do all sort of illegal stuff, so it won`t be a problem to fly for them...
I met pilots with 150-200 hours on planes they have never even been on, but the company records shows that they flew them. In Fortaleza there is an operator with a King Air that that will sell you right time, you won`t be flying, you just have to go there and take to the cartorio the AC log get an authenticated copy, take it to ANAC, and voila` you can get several hour in your logbook.
I`m in Miami and I just met a crew training for TACV Cabo Verde, most of the pilots are from Brazil, the few locals I talked to told me they tried to get hired in Brazil, but they won`t allow them, most of them stay stuck on the L410 because Brazilians go over there and steal the ATR and bigger equip slots.....but guess what they don`t want foreign to go to Brazil. It`s the same deal in Mozambique and Angola...shame
You are Italian do a search about Brazilian pilots at Alitalia, and cabin crew in general. They had several pilots from Brazil flying the B767, Alitalia would get the training from Varig and they would allow many Brazilian to go over to Europe and fly there with no problems, but not the other way around.
When Crossair got the 145s, several pilots from RIO SUL got hired and had no problems to fly over there...
You still wanna fly in Brazil?
If you have the RNE and you get the CPL, it will say on the license that you can`t work....I`m sure you can find some kind of job, small taxi companies do all sort of illegal stuff, so it won`t be a problem to fly for them...
I met pilots with 150-200 hours on planes they have never even been on, but the company records shows that they flew them. In Fortaleza there is an operator with a King Air that that will sell you right time, you won`t be flying, you just have to go there and take to the cartorio the AC log get an authenticated copy, take it to ANAC, and voila` you can get several hour in your logbook.
I`m in Miami and I just met a crew training for TACV Cabo Verde, most of the pilots are from Brazil, the few locals I talked to told me they tried to get hired in Brazil, but they won`t allow them, most of them stay stuck on the L410 because Brazilians go over there and steal the ATR and bigger equip slots.....but guess what they don`t want foreign to go to Brazil. It`s the same deal in Mozambique and Angola...shame
You are Italian do a search about Brazilian pilots at Alitalia, and cabin crew in general. They had several pilots from Brazil flying the B767, Alitalia would get the training from Varig and they would allow many Brazilian to go over to Europe and fly there with no problems, but not the other way around.
When Crossair got the 145s, several pilots from RIO SUL got hired and had no problems to fly over there...
You still wanna fly in Brazil?
Last edited by flyingswiss; 14th Apr 2011 at 03:19.
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What you just said is unbelievable! BUT... I have still the willing to move to Rio De Janeiro even because I am learning portugues with my girlfriend so.. it won't be a problem.Soon I will be there and will go to a couple of flying school to get as much information as I can!
Cheers from Italy!
Muito obrigato boa tarde!
Andrea
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You still wanna fly in Brazil?
60 years later, when Panair ceased its operations, a bunch of experienced and well qualified pilots also moved to Europe to fly for some local carriers, including TAP, Swissair, etc. And recently – with the dismissal of more than 3,000 qualified professionals after the bankruptcy of Transbrasil, Vasp, Varig, Rio-Sul and Nordeste – over 600 pilots have been playing the game looking for greener pastures beyond the border. However in all circumstances drivers have complied with a series of requirements (including some demands from local unions) and thousands of blah-blah-blah to get a job. Yes, I have been an expat as well, and I can say without any doubt that neither airline has done a favour when a Brazilian is choosen. If there is a Jungle pilot flying for Alitalia, he/she certainly has an EU passport and therefore he/she has all rights as any EU citizen. About expat F/As, you should take a look on Pprune to find out how and why airlines have filled out those gaps with "aliens". Concerning Crossair and its hiring policies, you didn’t mention, but it is valid to say: several years ago, that respectable airline opened its doors for all foreigner pilots, and those Brazilians have been hired because of their competence, not because they can tell good jokes.
As many civilized countries, Brazil has its own regulations to hire foreigners, and a good command of the (Brazilian) Portuguese language is essential. You know why, don't you? Have you ever tried to request a clearance in English with 'Rádio Imperatriz'? And in Caxias do Sul, Maringá or João Pessoa? In short, only few international airports have ATCO who speak English. And tell me, how long would you survive even in a "major" if you don't speak Portuguese fluently? With a poor paid ground staff (completely demotivated, as usual) what answer can you expect when you try to talk to the roster guys or after submitting your writing requests in an obscure language to most of them?
By the way, German has been a prerequisite to be a Lufthansa pilot.
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I understand what you are saying !! Agree 100% with you. I would not want a free for all in the brazilian pilot market.
I'm Portuguese, my girlfriend and future wife is Brazilian, what i dont understand is the fact that i dont qualify to fly commercial in Brazil? I speak the language and so on.
Can you explain the reason why portuguese pilots dont qualify ??
I'm Portuguese, my girlfriend and future wife is Brazilian, what i dont understand is the fact that i dont qualify to fly commercial in Brazil? I speak the language and so on.
Can you explain the reason why portuguese pilots dont qualify ??
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Hi Ed,
As in Portugal, as long as you meet the requirements you're eligible for a job in Brazil. Unfortunately I don't have an EU passport and JAA licences, and despite my previous experience I have never been qualified to get a job in Portugal. Period.
You speak Portuguese and your future wife is Brazilian, however do you really have the right to work in Brazil (all paperwork done)? Do you have a valid Brazilian CPL/IR/ME? A Brazilian Medical Certificate? 1200 hrs? Would like to live in São Paulo
?
If you said yes, Tam is looking for you. With less experience, Azul is a good option.
Good luck.
As in Portugal, as long as you meet the requirements you're eligible for a job in Brazil. Unfortunately I don't have an EU passport and JAA licences, and despite my previous experience I have never been qualified to get a job in Portugal. Period.
You speak Portuguese and your future wife is Brazilian, however do you really have the right to work in Brazil (all paperwork done)? Do you have a valid Brazilian CPL/IR/ME? A Brazilian Medical Certificate? 1200 hrs? Would like to live in São Paulo
?If you said yes, Tam is looking for you. With less experience, Azul is a good option.
Good luck.
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Dear Ed,
Simply because they don't have a brazilian passport, same reason many brazilian pilots do not qualify to fly/work in Portugal. There are at least two former Portugese colonies in Africa needing pilots, interested?
Simply because they don't have a brazilian passport, same reason many brazilian pilots do not qualify to fly/work in Portugal. There are at least two former Portugese colonies in Africa needing pilots, interested?
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Hi Da Mooca,
I see what you are saying, i need the paper work to pull through before i can move and fly. I havent really looked into it cause im employed and never thought in flying in Brazil. And after reading it all (above), i see that one needs to be a national to be able to fly for a airline.
What im not understanding on my situation is the following, after getting married, and decide to relocate, convert my license, will i be able to get employed ?? (airline and private/corporate)
If not !! them i can stay where i am and continue.
Hi AutoThrust05,
Thanks but no thanks on the colonies in africa. I have a good friend that is down there and he had allot of problems getting his paperwork/visa in place. but if one day, never know my future, i have to go there ... i will.
I see what you are saying, i need the paper work to pull through before i can move and fly. I havent really looked into it cause im employed and never thought in flying in Brazil. And after reading it all (above), i see that one needs to be a national to be able to fly for a airline.
What im not understanding on my situation is the following, after getting married, and decide to relocate, convert my license, will i be able to get employed ?? (airline and private/corporate)
If not !! them i can stay where i am and continue.
Hi AutoThrust05,
Thanks but no thanks on the colonies in africa. I have a good friend that is down there and he had allot of problems getting his paperwork/visa in place. but if one day, never know my future, i have to go there ... i will.
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Flyingswiss
"You are Italian do a search about Brazilian pilots at Alitalia, and cabin crew in general. They had several pilots from Brazil flying the B767, Alitalia would get the training from Varig and they would allow many Brazilian to go over to Europe and fly there with no problems, but not the other way around."
there where never brazilian pilots in Alitalia, on any aircraft.
Varig's B767 simulator in Rio was used for some time around 2002 if I remember well, all instructors and checkers were italian.
"You are Italian do a search about Brazilian pilots at Alitalia, and cabin crew in general. They had several pilots from Brazil flying the B767, Alitalia would get the training from Varig and they would allow many Brazilian to go over to Europe and fly there with no problems, but not the other way around."
there where never brazilian pilots in Alitalia, on any aircraft.
Varig's B767 simulator in Rio was used for some time around 2002 if I remember well, all instructors and checkers were italian.
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What im not understanding on my situation is the following, after getting married, and decide to relocate, convert my license, will i be able to get employed ?? (airline and private/corporate)
TTFN
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I happen to know that tam really did hire guys direct to 767, as far as I know FOs, but it was never published anywhere, mostly they were indicated by someone (QI) and previously rated on the 767. I was told company wanted to hire FOs directly on 330 and even possibly to 777 and DECs to the A320, but their union have the company prevented from doing so. But pressure seems to be growing from investors side to get management to do what deems nescessary to assure the planes be fitted with crews...
For those who are foreigners trying to get a job in Brazil, I think it might be possible for you to get a job if you do what it takes to get it, this might include a long time waiting, some crappy jobs, and I understand those who get frustrated on the way. I seriously believe the country will open for expats sometime soon, but if it happens right the way, guess what will happen: companies would take advantage by not paying TRs anymore, T&Cs would go down, I would expect most companies turning into something comparable to COPA, does anybody want this?
Speaking Portuguese will probably be nescessary to fly domestically for a while. I tried to talk English with the tower in SBPS today, havent even got any aswer, then switched to Portuguese... I think Blue panorama will start flying there next month! A controller from Curitiba center this week couldnt tell below from above "fly under FL200"! I experience situations like this everytime!
But to come back to the issue of the post< how many are to leave tam?
For those who are foreigners trying to get a job in Brazil, I think it might be possible for you to get a job if you do what it takes to get it, this might include a long time waiting, some crappy jobs, and I understand those who get frustrated on the way. I seriously believe the country will open for expats sometime soon, but if it happens right the way, guess what will happen: companies would take advantage by not paying TRs anymore, T&Cs would go down, I would expect most companies turning into something comparable to COPA, does anybody want this?
Speaking Portuguese will probably be nescessary to fly domestically for a while. I tried to talk English with the tower in SBPS today, havent even got any aswer, then switched to Portuguese... I think Blue panorama will start flying there next month! A controller from Curitiba center this week couldnt tell below from above "fly under FL200"! I experience situations like this everytime!
But to come back to the issue of the post< how many are to leave tam?
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I am actually surprised with this exodus, certainly didn't expect that!
I tought the exodus was only occuring at Azul due to the low salary.
cheers
I tought the exodus was only occuring at Azul due to the low salary.
cheers
Last edited by Autothrust05; 17th Apr 2011 at 13:19.
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Sorry for keep it off topic just a bit longer .....
Just went through the crew list at my current employer and come up with 15 Brasilian Captains working in Portuguese airline. Most of them are ex Varig, some ex BRA. None of them have Portuguese passports. All of them started working in Portugal with validations of their Brasilian licenses. Some of them have done the JAA license in the mean time.
What allowed them to gain employment in Portugal? Experiencia em "meia sete"
Doubt that there will be any Brasilian airline with 15 foreigns in their pilot workforce!!!
TOFFAIR
I remember of one Captain that left sometime around the end of 2007 and the begining of 2008. To the best of my knowledge, he went for TAM.
Just went through the crew list at my current employer and come up with 15 Brasilian Captains working in Portuguese airline. Most of them are ex Varig, some ex BRA. None of them have Portuguese passports. All of them started working in Portugal with validations of their Brasilian licenses. Some of them have done the JAA license in the mean time.
What allowed them to gain employment in Portugal? Experiencia em "meia sete"
Doubt that there will be any Brasilian airline with 15 foreigns in their pilot workforce!!!
TOFFAIR
I remember of one Captain that left sometime around the end of 2007 and the begining of 2008. To the best of my knowledge, he went for TAM.
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None of them have Portuguese passports.
TTFN
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Alemao
Not the case!!! The Portuguese immigration law allows for the recruitment of "highly qualified workers" as long as the employer makes an application confirming intent to recruit the worker. Believe this is the way it is done, not being very familiar with the exact procedure as I don't need it.
Additionally, after working a certain time in Portugal (I believe it is 6 years, but not sure) the worker becomes entitled to the citizenship.
You quite rightly mentioned that a lot of Brasilians are entitled to European passports. One of the captains has a German passport and another was working on getting a Italian passport, but they would be OK without an EU passport and, in any case, some might entitled to a Portuguese passport in a not so distant future.
Not the case!!! The Portuguese immigration law allows for the recruitment of "highly qualified workers" as long as the employer makes an application confirming intent to recruit the worker. Believe this is the way it is done, not being very familiar with the exact procedure as I don't need it.
Additionally, after working a certain time in Portugal (I believe it is 6 years, but not sure) the worker becomes entitled to the citizenship.
You quite rightly mentioned that a lot of Brasilians are entitled to European passports. One of the captains has a German passport and another was working on getting a Italian passport, but they would be OK without an EU passport and, in any case, some might entitled to a Portuguese passport in a not so distant future.
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Brazilian legislation is totally different from the Portuguese
Dear da Mooca,
Brazilian law actually is totally different from the Portuguese and even quite unfair to the portuguese, there is no law that prohibits foreigners in Portuguese Law, there are requirements in the conversion of Brazilian license for European JAA, something that is far from being a problem for the Portuguese pilots that want to go fly to Brazil, it is logical that there should exist at least a knowledge of local laws, and communications.
When someone said it was impossible for an individual that does not speak Portuguese, to fly in Brazil when the ATC do not speak english, well my dear friend I speak Portuguese and I realize as well as you should also that is very bad for large airports not to have proficient ATC, is something that should be required in brazilian training and laws, as you know English is the official aviation language, but you are right it would be difficult and even dangerous for a German for example to fly in Brazil, without proficiency in Portuguese.
One final note is that there is no European passport what exists is a passport issued by a member country that can open the door to work in the European Union, and a Brazilian does not need a passport to get to work in the European Union, requires an employment contract, that can lead eventually to obtain one.
I will not extend more because it's crystal clear that it's quite unfair for the portuguese pilots the law that states that all foreigns are not accepted to fly commercially.
Regards
Brazilian law actually is totally different from the Portuguese and even quite unfair to the portuguese, there is no law that prohibits foreigners in Portuguese Law, there are requirements in the conversion of Brazilian license for European JAA, something that is far from being a problem for the Portuguese pilots that want to go fly to Brazil, it is logical that there should exist at least a knowledge of local laws, and communications.
When someone said it was impossible for an individual that does not speak Portuguese, to fly in Brazil when the ATC do not speak english, well my dear friend I speak Portuguese and I realize as well as you should also that is very bad for large airports not to have proficient ATC, is something that should be required in brazilian training and laws, as you know English is the official aviation language, but you are right it would be difficult and even dangerous for a German for example to fly in Brazil, without proficiency in Portuguese.
One final note is that there is no European passport what exists is a passport issued by a member country that can open the door to work in the European Union, and a Brazilian does not need a passport to get to work in the European Union, requires an employment contract, that can lead eventually to obtain one.
I will not extend more because it's crystal clear that it's quite unfair for the portuguese pilots the law that states that all foreigns are not accepted to fly commercially.
Regards
