Flight Training in Brazil

[flyingswiss]

Well I think even right now things are a lot better in RS then in the rest of Brazil.

@Junker did you flew for Rio Sul?

Well most FAA rides are easy if you get proper training, this is what the FAA is all about, quality standardized training, no instructor will sign you up if you don`t meet the PTS standards, if you meet them it will be really hard to fail a ck ride.

The training in the US is safety focused, while in Brazil is all about stick and rudder and how nice you can land the plane, all starts with the attitude of most pilots, you can go to any Aeroclube and their students will tell you about formation flights they did or how low they flew on top of a road, TOP GUN mindset (just look at most accident reports down here, most of them are CFIT!!)....most maneuvers are not practiced because they just don`t see the benefits behind them, I know most are boring but on the long run the transfer of knowledge will make you a safer pilot. I don`t care if one of my students makes a smooth landing when then he does not put wind correction in the ailerons on the roll, it`s all this little things that add up and make the training being poor.

How do ANAC and the Aeroclubes keep the Sky safe? by putting limitations on IFR operations, night flights and practice of emergencies...what they don`t get is this makes pilots even less safe, because they won`t develop skills that will grow their ADM.

[Junker-13]

@Junker did you flew for Rio Sul?

No, I did not fly for Rio Sul.
I left Brazil after I received my private.

students will tell you about formation flights they did or how low they flew on top of a road, TOP GUN mindset.

That's bad.

all starts with the attitude of most pilots

You’re right, good attitude is everything.

[CFM-56NG]

HUMMMM

I DO AGREE WITH THAT HOWEVER HERE IS NOT THE ONLY PLACE WERE
THEY "STUDENTS/CFI" DO SOME CRAZY STUFF ........
I PERSONALLY DONT SEE A REAL USE OF P56 IN FLIGHT INSTRUCTION OTHER THAN WOOD FOR FIRE........ SOMEBODY GOT IT RIGHT UP THERE....
ITS NOT HOW SMOOTH YOU LAND BUT HOW TECHNICAL IS YOUR LANDING.... IF YOU WANT TO GET GOOD "STICK AND RUDDER" FLIGHT HELO'S....... THEY ARE INCREDIBLE SENSITIVE......
safety is a culture were you have to teach from scratch to the new pilots but the problem is how are you going to teach a newbie how to fly safe if the insctructor is a dumb ass in most cases?????? somehow we have to "break the circle " for the good of safety and better learning in the brazilian flight schools....
yes ej has the cirrus and de c172 g1000 for training ...... ive been there i i liked the place however the price is a shot in you balls !! for the same you can train anywhere else in the globe !!!!!!!

[flyingswiss]

Flying a P56 will actually make you a better pilot, most pilots that have only flown a PA28 or a 172 probably don't even know what coordinated flight means, peoples with P56 or glider background know it petty well. It won't make a huge difference on a daily base, but as a flight Instructor I can tell you that learning on a tailwheel plane is good for other future tasks, like flying a multi with a failed engine, probably 90% of the 152-172 trained only will have an hard time learning how to keep coordination during VMC, while for a tailwheel pilot it will be more natural. other good transfer of knowledge is precision during landings, most tailwheel landings are done engine idle so you will develop a better sense for change in glide, this will be really helpful when you start flying heavier planes. The downside of training on a P56 is that you won't develop other skills and you will be really limited in learning navigation techniques (most pilots in Brazil learn how to use a VOR when they start IFR). The best compromise is do have side programs, like an UTR or something where you can develop your stick skills.

I agree on the instructors most i flew with, showed up late and did not cared too much about the flight.

Unfortunately the Macho culture and the lack of Crew Coordination is deep in the Brazilian aviation culture, just look at the fact that even in civil life Captains are called Comandante. This guy I contacted for regulation classes made it a big deal to be called comandante, when I go to get classes he shows up in a Barcelona soccer jersey, shorts and flip flops,....professionalism????????

[varigflier]

Flyingswiss brings up a good point. Captains want and expect others to call them "comandante" and then their name. It's like they were born with the title. I have seen many times these so called comandantes treat F/Os or F/As bad because they didn't say comandante first. It's so pathetic. They expect this even when outside of aviation.

[alemaobaiano]

They expect this even when outside of aviation.

So very true, and in many respects so very sad.

TTFN

[TOFFAIR]

I think some of the arguments you re bringing might be applicable seeing aviation as whole, not specifically to comercial aviation. I had a friend, Captain and instructor from Web jumpsitting the other day and he told me about the hard time he had trying to give instruction to a guy with 3000+ hours who flew Crop-dusters (tailwheel), not in terms of adapting to IFR, airline management but wasnt able to do a reasonable approach and landing (Webs destination have the best infrastructure as you dont do inicial trainning at SDU).
I think what you still dont have in Brazil, unlike other places I know, is a training specifically tailored to a future airline pilot!

[flyingswiss]

Well that makes sense, if you do your IFR training and then you work as a crop duster pilot, you won't see any instrument condition at all, you get rusty and even forget things...when I was instructing I went one year without flying IMC in a real plane, just FTD, when I went back to it I was probably not that good at it, it took me several hours to get back where I was before.

What you are saying about airline pilot oriented training will be needed here. just look at Europe, pilots get hired with really low time so there was the need to set up a specific way of teaching so that they could adapt to the MC environment easier. All the European Airline programs for their Cadets and Professional Pilot programs are based on flying crew, they have even adapted ck lists to look like an airliner flow, in some places the instructor even flies in the back at the last training stages.

Between 2006-2008 when US regional carriers started hiring 250TT pilots, they would send the new hired back to flight school, even pilots with 800-1000 would have to do the same (I saw a guy with 3500TT having to do this, probably he flew SE before). At flight school they would start an intense crew oriented FTD, flight training (on a light twin, flying profiles like the airlines do...) and simulator orientation (my school had an ERJ 145 for that)...

I think this would be a valid option for Brazil, if the industry keep growing there will be more and more low timers stepping into jet airliners....but will be the airlines willing to pay for it?

[varigflier]

It doesn't matter what type of training students do. As long as it's done in Brasil, things won't change. Students fly 20-30% of their logged hours. I had one guy came up to me and he was taking his commercial checkride with a little over 1000 hours logged. Later he said he only flew about 85 hours. So these students then get their first job flying a King Air or a Seneca as an F/O(what a joke, F/O on a Seneca) and the vicious cycle starts. The top gun captain won't allow the F/O to fly so he'll just talk on the radio. Then he goes to an airline and he'll fly with more top gun captains who won't let him fly and the company has lots of restrictions on F/Os flying. He will only get to fly once he upgrades to captain and by then he won't have enough experience and it shows on a daily basis during the flight. They don't feel confortable flying with hundreds of people in adverse weather, landing on short runways even when it's dry etc. By the time you occupy the left seat of an airliner, flying is the last thing you should worry about.

[TOFFAIR]

Strange thing is, in Brazil its not common to do a Check-ride on a Sim or FTD, despite the fame of people logging hours, faking experience, etc...

[flyingswiss]

Most FTD I flew are actually harder to fly then the real plane (lack of feedback on the controls). I would give an instrument rating to somebody that can do a partial panel in a FTD sim....

[TOFFAIR]

FTDs can be an excellent device, specially for IFR training, and are essencial in environements like those overcrowded and poorly infrastructured we have right now in Brazil, but its just as useless as MS-FS unless you have a training programme and qualified instructor backing all up.

[varigflier]

Approved FTDs yes but not the kind of setup you find in most schools. It's so sad.

[flyingswiss]

I wish they would invest in this SBPA Simulators they are a lot cheaper then a Frasca

[lanshuye666]

I am new here,,,

Dear all,

I am excited to be in here to meet everyone.
My name is Emily, and I am from China, currently living in Panama. I finally found out that my dream to be a pilot need to be completed. So I am ready to go for it...Even I know it will be a long journey...

It would be nice to learn from experienced people also meet someone who want to communicate and exchange ideas together.


Cheers,,


Emily