Service Air B747F
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Alberta
"He can't, because they have no agreements in place for any a/c yet. They aren't ready for it. They want to get 2 or 3 more things cleared up with Transport Canada first"
Maybe, just maybe - he can't because SAG has no contracts to fly, $0.00 in financing, no AOC and no aircraft!?
Sounds like the same old song and dance to me...
I'll believe it if I see it, but my gut (and a lot of people) tell me that this will fizzle out before it fires up.
C'mon Skpr74, Festus is right - put your money where your mouth is. The burden of proof lies with the people claiming to have aircraft...invisible ones or not.
Maybe, just maybe - he can't because SAG has no contracts to fly, $0.00 in financing, no AOC and no aircraft!?
Sounds like the same old song and dance to me...
I'll believe it if I see it, but my gut (and a lot of people) tell me that this will fizzle out before it fires up.
C'mon Skpr74, Festus is right - put your money where your mouth is. The burden of proof lies with the people claiming to have aircraft...invisible ones or not.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: At the airport
But who ever claimed that they had an aircraft??? Did you see a press release from SAG??? Or are you just foolish enough to believe the rumour mill??
The process is a long and tedious one, especially when you have to change types half way through..
There are a lot of fools out there who will trash anyone with any ambition, however, later on they are the same fools who are looking for a job if that person happens to get the operation up and running.
I have never figured out why anyone would trash someone for trying.. At least they are.. What have all you idiots who are trashing Service Air done to help out aviation in Canada?? Or are you just the mouthy minority who likes to hear themselves talk??
I've been around the block a time or two and will always support the person who is at least trying. Why someone wouldn't is beyond me because as we all know, aviation is a small world and you might need a job some day. Maybe if we all support those who would like to start a company that just might provide jobs, this industry wouldn't be in the crapper like it is now..
All of you who are crapping on SAG are only crapping on your own shoes because you, and I mean you, might be looking for a job some day and will then be glad to find someone who was willing to put the effort into starting an airline.
The process is a long and tedious one, especially when you have to change types half way through..
There are a lot of fools out there who will trash anyone with any ambition, however, later on they are the same fools who are looking for a job if that person happens to get the operation up and running.
I have never figured out why anyone would trash someone for trying.. At least they are.. What have all you idiots who are trashing Service Air done to help out aviation in Canada?? Or are you just the mouthy minority who likes to hear themselves talk??
I've been around the block a time or two and will always support the person who is at least trying. Why someone wouldn't is beyond me because as we all know, aviation is a small world and you might need a job some day. Maybe if we all support those who would like to start a company that just might provide jobs, this industry wouldn't be in the crapper like it is now..
All of you who are crapping on SAG are only crapping on your own shoes because you, and I mean you, might be looking for a job some day and will then be glad to find someone who was willing to put the effort into starting an airline.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Alberta
Metal....
Actually Phil, on page 8, Skpr74 claims:
"SAG's metal; seen it, touched it..."
So someone's lying...who could it be!? Better take another walk around that block of yours and keep your eyes peeled for any stray 747's!
Actually Phil, on page 8, Skpr74 claims:
"SAG's metal; seen it, touched it..."
So someone's lying...who could it be!? Better take another walk around that block of yours and keep your eyes peeled for any stray 747's!
I suspect Skpr74's also 'seen and touched' the millions of dollars that SAG / JD needs to get this project rolling...I'm sorry gentlemen, but the Defense seems to have very little credibility.
"SAG's metal; seen it, touched it..."
So someone's lying...who could it be!? Better take another walk around that block of yours and keep your eyes peeled for any stray 747's!
Actually Phil, on page 8, Skpr74 claims:
"SAG's metal; seen it, touched it..."
So someone's lying...who could it be!? Better take another walk around that block of yours and keep your eyes peeled for any stray 747's!
I suspect Skpr74's also 'seen and touched' the millions of dollars that SAG / JD needs to get this project rolling...I'm sorry gentlemen, but the Defense seems to have very little credibility.
Guest
Posts: n/a
U&D,
Yea and I already told you they didn't have metal, and that comes from the inside. Skpr74 doesn't say what his sources are - He definatly doesn't speak for SAG officially. So, as Phil says, you just grabbed on to the rumor mill and went with it . I don't know who SKpr74 is - but he's just stirring the pot. Why do you say it's SAG thats lying? They haven't made any statements yet.
Yea and I already told you they didn't have metal, and that comes from the inside. Skpr74 doesn't say what his sources are - He definatly doesn't speak for SAG officially. So, as Phil says, you just grabbed on to the rumor mill and went with it . I don't know who SKpr74 is - but he's just stirring the pot. Why do you say it's SAG thats lying? They haven't made any statements yet.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Alberta
Lying?
Skyhawk - I've read, and re-read my post, and I can't find the part where I said SAG's lying...only that 'someone' is...
How do we know that Skpr74 isn't on the inside!? How do we know you are!?
I just want proof...and the only solid evidence we have right now, is that the ramp is empty.
Do you speak for SAG officially? Who does?
However, according to their website (under Service), they say "Service Air has commercial commitments in place with established Canadian and foreign general sales agents (GSA's). "
Whoopie Doo...There isn't a GSA on the planet that will pay them or any carrier to fly a sched or charter service - they'll definitely try to sell their services, but would never sign a contract guaranteeing revenues, only guaranteeing that they'll sell their additional space to generate incremental revenues...If anyone tries to tell you differently, they don't know the business - at all.
How do we know that Skpr74 isn't on the inside!? How do we know you are!?
I just want proof...and the only solid evidence we have right now, is that the ramp is empty.
Do you speak for SAG officially? Who does?
However, according to their website (under Service), they say "Service Air has commercial commitments in place with established Canadian and foreign general sales agents (GSA's). "
Whoopie Doo...There isn't a GSA on the planet that will pay them or any carrier to fly a sched or charter service - they'll definitely try to sell their services, but would never sign a contract guaranteeing revenues, only guaranteeing that they'll sell their additional space to generate incremental revenues...If anyone tries to tell you differently, they don't know the business - at all.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver
Well...isn't this peachy! Go on a vacation and people get stupid/stupider.
UnD...buddy your condition has just gotten worse, it seems that your math problem has gone over to the English language. "only guaranteeing that they'll sell their additional space to generate incremental revenues..." READ THIS TEN TIMES AND SEE IF IT MAKES SENSE TO YOU! WHEN THE LIGHT GOES ON, TAKE YOUR FOOT OUT OF YOUR MOUTH AND MAYBE, MAYBE...MAYBE IT'LL MAKES SENSE TO YOU. KEY WORD BEING "ADDITIONAL SPACE." These people sell space, in order for them to sell additional space they must have sold the space that they were trying to sell! GET THE PICTURE! There's literally hundreds of GSA's scattered all over the world that are prepared to sign contracts.
I do have pictures, and I have been in the aircraft. Out of respect I will let the company post aircraft information and/or pictures. Oh by the way I have no interest in stirring the pot...
As for Service Air/JD's millions, no interest in seeing it. Know the sources intimately. For a number of years been associated with a group of individuals who purchase/sell/lease/finance Airliners. KNOW THE MARKET.
UnD...buddy your condition has just gotten worse, it seems that your math problem has gone over to the English language. "only guaranteeing that they'll sell their additional space to generate incremental revenues..." READ THIS TEN TIMES AND SEE IF IT MAKES SENSE TO YOU! WHEN THE LIGHT GOES ON, TAKE YOUR FOOT OUT OF YOUR MOUTH AND MAYBE, MAYBE...MAYBE IT'LL MAKES SENSE TO YOU. KEY WORD BEING "ADDITIONAL SPACE." These people sell space, in order for them to sell additional space they must have sold the space that they were trying to sell! GET THE PICTURE! There's literally hundreds of GSA's scattered all over the world that are prepared to sign contracts.
I do have pictures, and I have been in the aircraft. Out of respect I will let the company post aircraft information and/or pictures. Oh by the way I have no interest in stirring the pot...
As for Service Air/JD's millions, no interest in seeing it. Know the sources intimately. For a number of years been associated with a group of individuals who purchase/sell/lease/finance Airliners. KNOW THE MARKET.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Alberta
Too many beers on vacation??
Skpr - yes, 'these people sell space'...but they only sell the space remaining after the carrier pays for the flight with a base load - i.e. the additional space...you have obviously never worked with the forwarders or GSA's to any significant degree - in which case I understand your ignorance.
Name 1 GSA that will charter aircraft on a scheduled, dedicated basis! I beg you! Consolidators and Forwarders, even commecial accounts will charter regular flights for ongoing business, but the GSA's will simply provide the carrier with additional, incremental and ad-hoc revenue on those flights that already have a base load. GSA's don't provide the base load, it's economies of scale - once a commercial account has enough traffic for a base load they go direct to the carriers.
I've read it an re-read it, and it makes perect sense to me, and most likely anyone who has anything to do with cargo - I think you should do some research outside the cockpit and "get the picture".
There isn't a GSA on the planet that will sign a contract for a scheduled charter in hopes that they can fill every flight and make some money - it's aways the carrier that takes the risk on the base load, and the GSA fills in the holes where they can. Sure, they'll sign contracts, why not!? They'll provide the carrier with forecasts - but they always make a % as commission, and they will never take the risk on the base load!
You're making some pretty lofty claims, nd you seem to think you're the guy who knows everything, so enlighten us and put your money where your mouth is: please prove these aircraft exist, because the ramp's still empty.........
Name 1 GSA that will charter aircraft on a scheduled, dedicated basis! I beg you! Consolidators and Forwarders, even commecial accounts will charter regular flights for ongoing business, but the GSA's will simply provide the carrier with additional, incremental and ad-hoc revenue on those flights that already have a base load. GSA's don't provide the base load, it's economies of scale - once a commercial account has enough traffic for a base load they go direct to the carriers.
I've read it an re-read it, and it makes perect sense to me, and most likely anyone who has anything to do with cargo - I think you should do some research outside the cockpit and "get the picture".
There isn't a GSA on the planet that will sign a contract for a scheduled charter in hopes that they can fill every flight and make some money - it's aways the carrier that takes the risk on the base load, and the GSA fills in the holes where they can. Sure, they'll sign contracts, why not!? They'll provide the carrier with forecasts - but they always make a % as commission, and they will never take the risk on the base load!
You're making some pretty lofty claims, nd you seem to think you're the guy who knows everything, so enlighten us and put your money where your mouth is: please prove these aircraft exist, because the ramp's still empty.........
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: in the woods
Skpr74
You have no pics, you have not been in the aircraft and it is quite obvious your mouth is bigger then your brain. You have proven yourself to be a "someone of importance" wannabe. I think you should have stayed on vacation....I'm sure your doctor would recommend it.
Anyone else have any solid news on whats happening lately?
Festus
You have no pics, you have not been in the aircraft and it is quite obvious your mouth is bigger then your brain. You have proven yourself to be a "someone of importance" wannabe. I think you should have stayed on vacation....I'm sure your doctor would recommend it.
Anyone else have any solid news on whats happening lately?
Festus
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: On the Beach
I won't say I told ya so...
No need to apologize - personally I would have liked to see them in the air, and I didn't want to see people putting in time and not getting paid - unfortunately a few more people got burned by empty promises.
One of these days, someone with some money and brains will put something together and provide a few more seats in the air for us to play with, but as Ive said before - not that clown!
Good luck to everyone, I'll miss the playful banter of the 'Service Air 747' pipe dream...
Or Skpr74 - are the airplanes still coming!?!? wink wink
One of these days, someone with some money and brains will put something together and provide a few more seats in the air for us to play with, but as Ive said before - not that clown!
Good luck to everyone, I'll miss the playful banter of the 'Service Air 747' pipe dream...
Or Skpr74 - are the airplanes still coming!?!? wink wink
Guest
Posts: n/a
Once again - people get half the truth and turn it into something else. They are not dead in the water.
To set the record straight. The DFO was FIRED! One reason - among many - he apparently couldn't organise ants to a picnic. The chief pilot did quit - but it was for personal reasons, and he will come back as a line pilot in the future. Yes - he went to Jetsgo.
Both were getting paid from the time they started to they time they left, not a lot mind you but they were paid. The amount was revealed to them before they came aboard and they agreed to it. I don't know where this thing about people not getting paid keeps coming from.
The DFO and Chief pilot have already been replaced.
TC has not removed SA's inspector. They are taking a less active role because 98% is done and they are now awaiting A/C delivery. (TC I mean)
As for airplanes - there are on going talks with a couple of parties - but no firm comitments yet. As soon as I know I will let you know when they will be delivered.
This company will fly - I hope it's not to much longer, but in business one never knows. At least they are trying. Poke fun at them as you will (it doesn't bother them), but at least they are trying.
To set the record straight. The DFO was FIRED! One reason - among many - he apparently couldn't organise ants to a picnic. The chief pilot did quit - but it was for personal reasons, and he will come back as a line pilot in the future. Yes - he went to Jetsgo.
Both were getting paid from the time they started to they time they left, not a lot mind you but they were paid. The amount was revealed to them before they came aboard and they agreed to it. I don't know where this thing about people not getting paid keeps coming from.
The DFO and Chief pilot have already been replaced.
TC has not removed SA's inspector. They are taking a less active role because 98% is done and they are now awaiting A/C delivery. (TC I mean)
As for airplanes - there are on going talks with a couple of parties - but no firm comitments yet. As soon as I know I will let you know when they will be delivered.
This company will fly - I hope it's not to much longer, but in business one never knows. At least they are trying. Poke fun at them as you will (it doesn't bother them), but at least they are trying.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: in the woods
Hmmm, wonder why the Mod deleted the last post from Ropeadope? Some facts get out that shouldn't have been?
Skyhawk,
Here's what may buddy, who has been involved in this thing for years, told me. The DFO was getting a very small amount of money which SA decided they no longer could pay him. He quit!!
Also, the CP and DFO have not yet been replaced. If you maintain they have been replaced then give us names. It should be no secret...why would it be?
TC removed their Inspector because nothing is happening with SA and they didn\'t want to spend any more time on something that may never happen. That\'s not to say that they won\'t reactivate the file if and when something concrete starts to happen.
You are correct in that they are in talks with parties re ac but they have been in "talks" for a very long time. What\'s the delay??
Oh, and by the way, CP quit for other reasons none of which were personal.
Now, go back to your source, get your facts straight and come back and post acturate info.
I\'m not trying to trash thier efforts as I hope they get this thing going soon. If they don\'t someone else will and steal the idea. If you think my post contains incorrect info then I feel sad for my buddy because he has not been told the truth by JD.
Skyhawk,
Here's what may buddy, who has been involved in this thing for years, told me. The DFO was getting a very small amount of money which SA decided they no longer could pay him. He quit!!
Also, the CP and DFO have not yet been replaced. If you maintain they have been replaced then give us names. It should be no secret...why would it be?
TC removed their Inspector because nothing is happening with SA and they didn\'t want to spend any more time on something that may never happen. That\'s not to say that they won\'t reactivate the file if and when something concrete starts to happen.
You are correct in that they are in talks with parties re ac but they have been in "talks" for a very long time. What\'s the delay??
Oh, and by the way, CP quit for other reasons none of which were personal.
Now, go back to your source, get your facts straight and come back and post acturate info.
I\'m not trying to trash thier efforts as I hope they get this thing going soon. If they don\'t someone else will and steal the idea. If you think my post contains incorrect info then I feel sad for my buddy because he has not been told the truth by JD.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Festusslowpoke,
Ouch, I'm not here to get into a p*ssing match with anyone. Just passing on the news as I get it. My buddy has been involved with SA, almost since day one.
TC: I think were're both right. I don't know about ops but the maint inspector has not been removed. Their file is on the back burner at TC but what are they supposed to do when the manuals are mostly completed and SA needs a airplane next?
AC: When I ask my friend why it takes so long for an airplane to show up he just says "that's big business - but we'll get there". Maybe your friend can shed some light?
Personel: As far as he knows the CP quit due due to personnal reasons - and they weren't starving. Sounds like they were valid reasons too. Why doesn't someone track him down at Jetsgo and ask him? DFO - buddy says he was fired?? As for their replacments, some guys talked to SA said they would come aboard and went back to their home to give notice to their current employers. I will not post any names untill they sit at a desk at Service Air. Your buddy should be able to give you at least one name.
I'm not calling anyone a liar but there are three sides to every story: yours, mine, and the truth. I suspect the truth lies somewhere between the fist two. If SA is such a bad place to work why hasn't any of the so-called ex employees come fwd and said so?
Ouch, I'm not here to get into a p*ssing match with anyone. Just passing on the news as I get it. My buddy has been involved with SA, almost since day one.
TC: I think were're both right. I don't know about ops but the maint inspector has not been removed. Their file is on the back burner at TC but what are they supposed to do when the manuals are mostly completed and SA needs a airplane next?
AC: When I ask my friend why it takes so long for an airplane to show up he just says "that's big business - but we'll get there". Maybe your friend can shed some light?
Personel: As far as he knows the CP quit due due to personnal reasons - and they weren't starving. Sounds like they were valid reasons too. Why doesn't someone track him down at Jetsgo and ask him? DFO - buddy says he was fired?? As for their replacments, some guys talked to SA said they would come aboard and went back to their home to give notice to their current employers. I will not post any names untill they sit at a desk at Service Air. Your buddy should be able to give you at least one name.
I'm not calling anyone a liar but there are three sides to every story: yours, mine, and the truth. I suspect the truth lies somewhere between the fist two. If SA is such a bad place to work why hasn't any of the so-called ex employees come fwd and said so?
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Alberta
"If SA is such a bad place to work why hasn't any of the so-called ex employees come fwd and said so?"
Maybe they've so much time and energy with Service Air, that they just don't have any left, even to post a thread here on the Rumour Mill....
The truth is, if JD had been upfront and honest from the beginning with everyone involved, he could very well have been airborne as we speak. Unfortunately I'm told that wasn't the case.
Maybe a rabbit will pop out of the hat, and they will get going - who knows! And if so, that would be great...but don't quit your jobs, or bet the farm until there's rubber on cement.
Maybe they've so much time and energy with Service Air, that they just don't have any left, even to post a thread here on the Rumour Mill....
The truth is, if JD had been upfront and honest from the beginning with everyone involved, he could very well have been airborne as we speak. Unfortunately I'm told that wasn't the case.
Maybe a rabbit will pop out of the hat, and they will get going - who knows! And if so, that would be great...but don't quit your jobs, or bet the farm until there's rubber on cement.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: in the woods
Peter...errr ummm I mean Skpr74.
Maybe you could use your so called expertise in the "purchase/sell/lease/financing" of airliners and your knowledge of the market to help SA get their hands on an aircraft.
And about those pics you claim to have.........ummm, ya know what? Forget it, no time for this Sh&t today.
Oh, by the way,
U & D\'s third paragraph in his last post re "truth" is 100% bang on!!!!
Maybe you could use your so called expertise in the "purchase/sell/lease/financing" of airliners and your knowledge of the market to help SA get their hands on an aircraft.
And about those pics you claim to have.........ummm, ya know what? Forget it, no time for this Sh&t today.
Oh, by the way,
U & D\'s third paragraph in his last post re "truth" is 100% bang on!!!!
