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I need some serious help!

Canada The great white north. A BIG country with few people and LOTS of aviation.

I need some serious help!

Old 23rd Feb 2018, 18:14
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I need some serious help!

Hope you all are doing great. Let me give you a quick overview of my experience and situation. I currently hold an Australian Private Pilot Licence with 130 hours of Total Aeronautical Experience. I am planning on continuing my training in Canada with Harvs Air or Victoria Flying Club. Some people tell me it will financially benefit me to continue my training in Australia, but the reason to continue my training in Canada is due to the number of job opportunities and also a Canadian Licence is considered in high regards back home (India, in case I don't get a job in Canada). I have not finished grade 12 and am planning on doing an online high school diploma (adult fast track) in Canada. Considering my situation I can say there are some advantages and some disadvantages with each flight school.

Harvs air: Cons: They are partnered with Providence College that provide a 2 year diploma program in Business Management in Aviation, its a bit too long compared to University of Victorias 9 month diploma program in Business Management in Aviation.
Pros: Have a huge fleet, provide various kinds of courses and provide ATPL training. Read a lot of positive review about it in here (AVCANADA )too

Victoria Flying Club: Cons: Don't provide ATPL training, have only one multi-engine aircraft.
Pros: They have partnered with University of Victoria who provide a Degree in Business Management in Aviation and say that they can accept me even without my grade 12th, ONLY IF I FINISH MY TRAINING WITH VFC. This will really help me save time as I then don't have to do grade 12th immediately.

I'm looking for any answers that can help me, as I'm in quite in a pickle here. Thank you everyone!

Last edited by Flightcpt.; 26th Feb 2018 at 18:28.
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Old 24th Feb 2018, 00:49
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There are so many threads on this same topic. You will not get a job here in Canada as you have no right to work here. So, you might be able to take your training here, you don't automatically become eligible to work in Canada. You need 1500 hrs of experience to qualify for an ATPL here, which means that you will have had to have gained commercial experience of some sort. That means, if you're thinking of working here, read the second sentence above. No right to work...no flying here. Everyone will want to take your money but 'buyer beware'. You could get sold a 'bill of goods' and end up with a huge bill that you can't pay for at the end. I hate to burst your bubble but the Canadian market is flooded with Canadian pilots who do have have the right to work here and who are looking for work.
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Old 24th Feb 2018, 23:15
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So, if you go to VFC you're going to go into a University program without having finished Grade 12? That's not going to set you up for success at all. Year one university is often a hard repeat of Grade 12, so if you're going in with Grade 11, you're going in without a lot of needed information.

Finish your Grade 12 in a normal school and don't rush. The aviation industry is cyclical around the world and if you're starting now, you're likely rushing to the next downturn. So take your time and actually learn something. Those of us who have been through two downturns (or more) are realizing the next one is just around the corner, despite all the excitement around the hiring blitz. This is all just history repeating and there are a lot of people who are in for a real wakeup call at just how cruel life can be.

You're not in a pickle. You're still in your teens. You're going to look back on this time and realize you rushed through one of the best parts of life. If you stick it out in aviation, you're going to have a good forty years doing the same thing over and over again. I find a lot of the First Officers I fly with who joined the airlines straight out of flight school or after a quick stint with a smaller operator really don't like what they're doing after about two years. Some stick it out, others have left for their old jobs, and some others still have moved to another industry.

Once the dream is realized, it's no longer a dream - it's your job. And jobs suck. They suck bad. It's hard to keep the dream alive after three nights of minimum rest in just another hotel, waking up at 03:30 for a 04:15 shuttle to go fly a 12-hour day and you pull the blinds and realize it just dumped four feet of snow outside and there is a message from your spouse saying the kid caught a cold.

Keep it a dream for as long as you can and you'll be much happier when you finally realize your dream has become your job and you're dealing with the baggage that comes with working for a living.

Oh, and also - what 77AV8R said is spot on.
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Old 26th Feb 2018, 02:01
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Just Another Thought...

Fltcpt..we were all in your shoes once. Gosh, it was a long time since I was in Grade 12 and I too had finished a PPL, with almost as much time as you. I admire your drive and you already have the passion to be an aviator. That is pretty exciting, I don't care who you are. It's fantastic!

So, some questions to think about.

1. What would you gain by coming to Canada and dropping all your money here with no reasonable expectation of getting any work here?

2. What is the likelihood that you will be able to find a job in Australia (?) vs spending a lot of time and effort to try and find some way of working in Canada?

3. Can you not finding excellent training in Australia as opposed to coming to Canada to take training?

4. Have you figured living expenses into training in Canada vs training in Australia? It is expensive here in Canada...are you living at home?

Those are just some thoughts from an old aviator who remembers what it was like to be young and energetic. From my memory, I wanted to have an ATPL, 10000 hrs and fly a B707 (the B747 was just being thought of).

You have time on your side. A lot of time. Make some smart choices at the beginning. Find some honest aviator who is willing to provide some mentorship and give you guidance along the way. You ultimately have to make the decisions but having someone to 'speak into you' could ultimately send you in the right direction with less personal hassle and money saved.

And +TSRA is correct in what he says in some ways. I don't agree with it all however; flying airplanes was my passion until I retired. They still are. I put up with the flight time limitations, long haul flights and short layovers. It was all part of what I signed on for. I have absolutely no regrets from my time in this business. And for me, my job never sucked, to be perfectly honest. I went to work each day and fully enjoyed and engaged with everyone that I worked with. In the end, it was my attitude that won the day. Anyone can have the perfect job however; if I had a bad attitude, that perfect job would be the worst thing in the world. Its a matter of perspective and what I bring to my position and all those with whom that I worked. I thoroughly enjoyed the good and the bad.

Best of luck to you.

Last edited by 777AV8R; 26th Feb 2018 at 02:14.
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Old 26th Feb 2018, 03:20
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Wow! I'm really awestruck with the fact that you two gentlemen have taken the time and effort to write something so special and most importantly you've written hard facts, you didn't sugar coat it like usually people do and I would like to thank you for that. I have now got a better idea of what I have to do and how I have to do it. I do however have one question, I've read that Canada has an immigration program, where if a student studies for 2 years or more they can acquire a 3 year work permit under the post graduate work permit program. I have spoken to multiple lawyers and all have said that it is relatively easier to get a work permit in Canada, compared to Australia. Also after comparing the cost of living (Australia Vs Canada) I have found out that Australia is actually a bit more expensive. Once again I would really like to say thank you for taking the time to give me an informative reply.
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Old 26th Feb 2018, 03:56
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Well Flightcpt, I'm not an immigration expert, so for this, I have no idea. My expertise lies in flying airplanes safely and having a good time doing it.
Keep doing your homework.
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Old 26th Feb 2018, 09:08
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Unless you're going to be an illegal immigrant and work in kitchens etc the higher the qualifications/experience you hold the easier it is to change countries in EVERY field

get qualified in Australia, build experience - then you stand a chance of changing countries/jobs

TBH the only alternative is to emigrate and start as a Canadian citizen- but then again the higher your qualifications the easier it is..............
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Old 26th Feb 2018, 09:25
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Originally Posted by 777AV8R View Post
Well Flightcpt, I'm not an immigration expert, so for this, I have no idea. My expertise lies in flying airplanes safely and having a good time doing it.
Keep doing your homework.
I completely understand and would like to thank you for taking the time to give me an informative reply. I will definitely keep on doing my research and will update you on status, I hope u don't mind.
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Old 26th Feb 2018, 09:27
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
Unless you're going to be an illegal immigrant and work in kitchens etc the higher the qualifications/experience you hold the easier it is to change countries in EVERY field

get qualified in Australia, build experience - then you stand a chance of changing countries/jobs

TBH the only alternative is to emigrate and start as a Canadian citizen- but then again the higher your qualifications the easier it is..............
Hahaha no not at all I wont be an illegal immigrant, however in Australia there aren't any post graduate work permits and other programs have higher requirements compared to Canada. I would like to thank you for your reply Heathrow Harry.
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Old 26th Feb 2018, 13:27
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Same everywhere I'm afraid - protectionism rules until the shortage becomes so bad they have to do something.........................

One of the issues I've always found with Canada is that Canadians think they get a hard time from the US and so adopt similar strict rules on employment to get back at the Yanks - unfortunately everyone else gets caught in the cross-fire
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Old 26th Feb 2018, 13:33
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Harv's Air is in Steinbach, Manitoba.

Victoria Flying Club is in Victoria, British Columbia.

Have you ever BEEN to Canada?

What was your question again?
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Old 26th Feb 2018, 18:23
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Originally Posted by nolimitholdem View Post
Harv's Air is in Steinbach, Manitoba.

Victoria Flying Club is in Victoria, British Columbia.

Have you ever BEEN to Canada?

What was your question again?
I never mentioned where they were, so what are you trying to correct?
I have not been to Canada, but the internet is good enough to tell me where Harv's Air and Victoria Flying Club are. I was just asking where I should continue my training, cause there are some pros and cons to both considering my situation. Please read the first post on this thread.
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Old 27th Feb 2018, 03:03
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Locations

The average high temperature for a January day in Victoria is only 7 degrees Celsius but that is 18 degrees warmer than in Steinbach. If your previous residences have been in India and Australia this may be a factor you want to consider.
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Old 27th Feb 2018, 05:31
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post

One of the issues I've always found with Canada is that Canadians think they get a hard time from the US and so adopt similar strict rules on employment to get back at the Yanks - unfortunately everyone else gets caught in the cross-fire

And, you know this how Harry? What a load of horse patootie.


`
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Old 27th Feb 2018, 09:07
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Okay I have a final question to ask please. Regardless of my situation, which academy is better and for what reasons? Harvs Air vs Victoria Flying Club, if you were to choose, which one would it be?
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Old 27th Feb 2018, 14:53
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Originally Posted by Flightcpt. View Post
Okay I have a final question to ask please. Regardless of my situation, which academy is better and for what reasons? Harvs Air vs Victoria Flying Club, if you were to choose, which one would it be?
Flightcpt
I think you really need to talk to the University of Victoria about this degree that Victoria Flying says you will get. All of the Canadian Universities and Technical Colleges require their students to meet a Minimum Educational Requirement of Grade 12. They also have 10 students trying to get the one chair they have available so someone without the minimum educational requirements is number 11 on that list in their eyes.


Roybert
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Old 27th Feb 2018, 21:45
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Okay I have a final question to ask please. Regardless of my situation, which academy is better and for what reasons? Harvs Air vs Victoria Flying Club, if you were to choose, which one would it be?
Flightcpt. Right now you are focused on getting into an airplane as quickly as you can and getting the license in hand, so it seems as though this is a hard decision.

We've all been there.

But try and think what might happen twenty to thirty years down the road when a doctor tells you you've already flown your last flight and you're looking at another ten to twenty years driving a desk or simulator. You are going to want an education more than just a pilots license to make things interesting day in and day out. This makes your decision now a very easy one.

Do your Grade 12, study for the good grades and go to a degree program. There are lots more of those around than VFC too (i.e., Mount Royal). You'll thank yourself in twenty years.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 00:32
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Flight Capt, appreciate your aspiration to be a pilot, but I get the feeling that you are in for trouble and could endup in a completely wrong place. I would remind you to consider a few points below.
  1. First of all, all of the major airlines have include additional qualifications in their recruitment criteria, Eg: Air Canada prefers pilots to have minimum of a graduation and an aviation related degree. Look in to their careers page. I am not saying that you wont quality with an ATPL and enough hours on your logbook, but preference is given to candidates with higher qualifications. As someone pointed above, there are lots of people who would rank above you.
  2. Most of the candidates who go to Canada, initially think that its all very easy and end up doing uber taxi jobs and restaurant cleaner jobs to find money to get their flight hours. A 2 year program ends up taking 5 or more years. You will be forced to go and find alternatives to survive (get PR etc) in Canada.
  3. I am sure people will do all of that, and still fail because at an interview, others will stamp over you because of their higher qualifications.
  4. One last thing about Canada is that the weather is so unpredictable; so even if you had all the money to do your hours, you may end up with lots of cancellations due to the weather.
I think a more pragmatic option for you would be to first qualify your +2 and try a graduate program in Canada (Any would do). The you could get your CPL and other ratings etc sorted while you are over there as a self paced program.
In reality, majority of the Aviation Certification programs are a waste of money (in the pretext that you get a certificate, which ofcourse is of not much value above your hours of flying experience)
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:01
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Originally Posted by roybert View Post
Flightcpt
I think you really need to talk to the University of Victoria about this degree that Victoria Flying says you will get. All of the Canadian Universities and Technical Colleges require their students to meet a Minimum Educational Requirement of Grade 12. They also have 10 students trying to get the one chair they have available so someone without the minimum educational requirements is number 11 on that list in their eyes.


Roybert
Hey Roybert, I have spoken to UVic and they say that as long as I finish my training with Victoria Flying Club, they are willing to overlook the prerequisite of grade 12 and give me the LOA (Letter of Acceptance) as soon as I send them VFCs LOA.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:02
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Originally Posted by toajith View Post
Flight Capt, appreciate your aspiration to be a pilot, but I get the feeling that you are in for trouble and could endup in a completely wrong place. I would remind you to consider a few points below.
  1. First of all, all of the major airlines have include additional qualifications in their recruitment criteria, Eg: Air Canada prefers pilots to have minimum of a graduation and an aviation related degree. Look in to their careers page. I am not saying that you wont quality with an ATPL and enough hours on your logbook, but preference is given to candidates with higher qualifications. As someone pointed above, there are lots of people who would rank above you.
  2. Most of the candidates who go to Canada, initially think that its all very easy and end up doing uber taxi jobs and restaurant cleaner jobs to find money to get their flight hours. A 2 year program ends up taking 5 or more years. You will be forced to go and find alternatives to survive (get PR etc) in Canada.
  3. I am sure people will do all of that, and still fail because at an interview, others will stamp over you because of their higher qualifications.
  4. One last thing about Canada is that the weather is so unpredictable; so even if you had all the money to do your hours, you may end up with lots of cancellations due to the weather.
I think a more pragmatic option for you would be to first qualify your +2 and try a graduate program in Canada (Any would do). The you could get your CPL and other ratings etc sorted while you are over there as a self paced program.
In reality, majority of the Aviation Certification programs are a waste of money (in the pretext that you get a certificate, which ofcourse is of not much value above your hours of flying experience)
I have decided after all your input and guidance being the same, to join the Virtual High School in Canada and do a fast track online high school diploma program for adults (takes about 3-4 months) to acquire my high school diploma. I also spoke to Harvs air about this and they say that they create a schedule according to the student, so they say that I can do the high school diploma program (from September-March, cause they usually are no fly months) and flight training. Is this a good idea?
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