Air Canada

[RG500]

Strange you reference USD on a Canadian page. In Canada we just call it $53,000

[c150driver]

I used USD for ease of comparison so you don’t have to convert other currencies such as the Nigerian Naira to Canadian dollars. Yes, Nigerian pilots make more than new AC pilots.

[+TSRA]

I would argue it makes the comparison harder. You're not purchasing your goods in USD when earning in CAD, so converting to USD belies the (limited) buying power of the CAD. Many Canadians find living on $50,000 near impossible while others are quite comfortable. Someone living near High-Park in Toronto is likely to have a vastly different idea of how far $50,000 can go than someone living in Lucknow.

With that said, I agree that the pay levels of pilots in Canada are egregious when compared to our confrčre.

[RG500]

I wasn't aware that currency conversion was difficult in this day and age?
Sounds like the Nigerian aviation sector is better suited for your talents.
I gather that you made your presumptive statement based strictly on the first year pay and not on the full pay scale?

[c150driver]

OP was asking about joining AC. I gave him the first year salary for a 777 FO....which is quite shameful. Don’t get a hate-on for me...I didn’t negotiate the ****ty wages.

[J.O.]

Given the average age and level of experience of new recruits, I can't get too choked about their starting pay. It sucked a whole lot more for those of us who often paid our dues for 15 years or more before we got the privilege of an interview with a major airline.

[Left Coaster]

It sucked for you so it should suck for everyone? Is that how we move forward? No wonder CEO's of Canadian airlines keep beating the masses down. It's too easy.

[c150driver]

Originally Posted by Left Coaster

It sucked for you so it should suck for everyone? Is that how we move forward? No wonder CEO's of Canadian airlines keep beating the masses down. It's too easy.

Bingo!!!!!

[J.O.]

Originally Posted by Left Coaster

It sucked for you so it should suck for everyone? Is that how we move forward? No wonder CEO's of Canadian airlines keep beating the masses down. It's too easy.

Way to oversimplify the issue.

Here's the harsh truth - we don't have to like it but it's reality. Union negotiators do not go to the table to negotiate on behalf of people who are not yet on the seniority list. Never have and never will. Every one of them paid their dues at the low end of the pay scale. The company puts a bucket of money on the table and in truth, doesn't much care how it gets divided up. Both sides will have little motivation to change until such time as the company has to start cancelling flights because they can't hire enough people. Even then, it will take a creative approach, such as signing bonuses for new hires who stay on for a set period of time like some regionals are doing in the USA.

[altiplano]

Originally Posted by BeeSevenSevenDoubleU

TSRA;

This is a fantastic quote and very well put. Too many pilots (myself included) get stuck on the idea of command. But one has to do the hard yards first! I've finally accepted that.

On another note, any AC pilots who can give me some info on rosters etc? Seriously considering emigrating to Canada Eh, and would love to find out the finer details of AC and if I would be eligible should I get my PR. Yes, I have the flight time requirements, would have to convert to TC ATPL tho.

Thanks in advance!

Hey BeeSeven

Replied to your DM, but system says your mailbox is full and can't receive any more replies. Clear it out or send me your email and I'll be happy to get back to you on your questions.

Cheers.

[furioussphinx]

Info for expat FO planning for AC

Hello guys, I am a first officer on A320 with over 3000hours on the bus and all my experience being in the Middle East.

I plan to move to Canada sometime after next year, but I am trying to get some accurate info which can help me make the move. Getting a PR shouldn’t be an issue being a double degree holder, and ATPL conversion should be simple too.

However I want to know how are requirements with Air Canada being an experienced expat FO, do I have any chances or I should plan to apply for regionals? (Any regionals flying a320?)

And obv the next info to follow will be the starting packages and the general cost of living in Canada.

thanks for the help

[JBI]

Sorry to say, but AC just retired 30% of their aircraft (79 Tails) and they are predicting it'll be 3 years to get back to the staffing levels of last year. There won't be any hiring for the foreseeable future and when there is, what those requirements will be will be anyone's guess.

A year ago, I would have said you were a competitive candidate. Right now you could be a former astronaut and you wouldn't get hired. I'm hopeful this will recover soon, but I'm not holding my breath.

[surveytheworld]

Originally Posted by furioussphinx

However I want to know how are requirements with Air Canada being an experienced expat FO, do I have any chances or I should plan to apply for regionals? (Any regionals flying a320?)

You won't have any chances at the Regionals either, for a few years at least, and to be perfectly honest, your jet FO hours won't be worth much to a northern operator who operates props out of gravel or snow covered strips.

For any company that hasn't laid off pilots yet, it's coming soon, and will get worse before it gets better. Many of us are hanging onto our jobs only because of government wage subsidies, which paints an unrealistic picture of unemployment levels. When the subsidies end and flying isn't back to early 2020 levels, there will be massive layoffs. Then, when hiring starts again, companies will have to bring back all their furloughed pilots before they can hire from the outside.

I see aviation in Canada now to be worse than the way it was in 2002 or so - tough times for everyone, and who you know really will become key.

[altiplano]

Originally Posted by furioussphinx

Hello guys, I am a first officer on A320 with over 3000hours on the bus and all my experience being in the Middle East.

I plan to move to Canada sometime after next year, but I am trying to get some accurate info which can help me make the move. Getting a PR shouldn’t be an issue being a double degree holder, and ATPL conversion should be simple too.

However I want to know how are requirements with Air Canada being an experienced expat FO, do I have any chances or I should plan to apply for regionals? (Any regionals flying a320?)

And obv the next info to follow will be the starting packages and the general cost of living in Canada.

thanks for the help

As others have said, AC isn't hiring and in fact has put out it's first round of surplus/furlough pilots.

When this passes and AC starts hiring again, you won't be competitive. No offense, but 3000 hours right seat time isn't "experienced."

Try the regionals.

[Longtimer]

Air Canada Announces June Vacations to Locations in Mexico, Cuba and Jamaica

News from Travel off Path – link to story

[Neektu]

Originally Posted by furioussphinx

Hello guys, I am a first officer on A320 with over 3000hours on the bus and all my experience being in the Middle East.

I plan to move to Canada sometime after next year, but I am trying to get some accurate info which can help me make the move. Getting a PR shouldn’t be an issue being a double degree holder, and ATPL conversion should be simple too.

However I want to know how are requirements with Air Canada being an experienced expat FO, do I have any chances or I should plan to apply for regionals? (Any regionals flying a320?)

And obv the next info to follow will be the starting packages and the general cost of living in Canada.

thanks for the help

A note of caution: if you get your PR papers, as a new immigrant, your “double-degree” will certainly guarantee you a direct-entry cashier job at Tim Horton’s. Also, converting your ATPL would not be that “simple.” I stand to be corrected, but you would have to prove command time and pass the required written and flight tests before TC issue you a Canadian ATPL. Check that out.
Now, with the current pandemic situation you would stand a very small chance of getting an aviation job, considering the several hundred furloughed pilots in Canada.

[EchoKilla]

neektu might sound blunt but is spot on. With more cuts on the way you would probably be on the bottom of the list of getting hired as a pilot. On top of that it isn’t so easy to be a new PR holder to get work in your dream job even with 10 degrees unless some of your double degrees are from Canada or USA and not the online kind. U would need to beat all Canadian pilots, new Canadian pilots and hope the pandemic has disappeared and the industry is creeping back. Other option is Tim Hortons - coffee isn’t going to die down. Sorry but it’s a fact - Aviation isn’t so easy to get into North America and now with gloomy days ahead it’s not going to be an easy industry to have a plushy career

Originally Posted by Neektu

A note of caution: if you get your PR papers, as a new immigrant, your “double-degree” will certainly guarantee you a direct-entry cashier job at Tim Horton’s. Also, converting your ATPL would not be that “simple.” I stand to be corrected, but you would have to prove command time and pass the required written and flight tests before TC issue you a Canadian ATPL. Check that out.
Now, with the current pandemic situation you would stand a very small chance of getting an aviation job, considering the several hundred furloughed pilots in Canada.

[Longtimer]

Originally Posted by Neektu

A note of caution: if you get your PR papers, as a new immigrant, your “double-degree” will certainly guarantee you a direct-entry cashier job at Tim Horton’s. Also, converting your ATPL would not be that “simple.” I stand to be corrected, but you would have to prove command time and pass the required written and flight tests before TC issue you a Canadian ATPL. Check that out.
Now, with the current pandemic situation you would stand a very small chance of getting an aviation job, considering the several hundred furloughed pilots in Canada.

Air Canada has just announced that they will be laying off over 50% of their current staff. 20,000 out of 30,000. so I suggest you don't get your hopes up

[Ruprect75]

Totally agree

[CPL27]

Hello all,

I realize with everything going on at the moment there’s no chance of moving there yet, but could someone please post an accurate and consistent pay scale for new hires please? Particularly A320 FO salary, 1st year, before tax and including an average of 80 flight hours per month. And then 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th year salaries? Also, if possible please, 320 Captain’s salary years 1-5?

I have seen two people posted some pay scales a while ago on pilot jobs network and airline pilot central, but they work out quite different (one says $42.9k/y the other works out at around $53-54k/y for FOs)

I am not looking to move any time soon, but it would be nice to have a clear idea of salaries for when the time (hopefully) comes.

Obviously pre-COVID salaries, so without current cost-cutting measures that may be in place.

Thanks in advance to any and all help!