Air Canada

[Flyboy_SG]

Hello Everyone,

Greetings.

I am looking for some advice/inputs/insights from pilots of Air canada. Please help me take a right decision.

I am currently flying the 777 with a major player as First Officer and looking forward to immigrate to canada by next year. I hold an FAA and Canadian ATP with 777 endorsement. And working on canadian PR for myself and family. I have about 3000+ hrs on 737NG and 1500+ on 777 as First officer.
I am also considering US but more inclined towards Canada as I like it more.


What are the chances for myself to land up in a job with Air Canada. If so how would be the life and career progression in the company? I am not looking for a quick command, as I can have it in my home country. I am looking for a better country to raise my family in terms of quality of life, education, health care,retirement, job security etc. Is it wise to leave middle east for canada ? Because I have seen canadian pilots apply for middle east due to high taxes in the region. I don't mind paying taxes as long as the above mentioned items are taken care of.


Thank you

Happy Landings

[777AV8R]

First off, you would be wise to check out the immigration requirements here. You have to qualify to come here and being a pilot may not fit the immigration criteria. Secondly, Air Canada is unionized, which means that you will most likely have to progress through the ranks on junior equipment.

Even though Canada is a target for immigrants right now, it isn't guaranteed that you get the PR.

[Flyboy_SG]

Thank you 777av8r. Yes, I do qualify, with a double degree and with my folks out in canada. PR is not an issue but finding a job in the right company is.

[Mostly Harmless]

If immigration is not an issue and you are okay with going to the bottom of the list, I think your chances are very good... but it seems HR is always a mystery on who they pick.

I say put in an application and see if you get an interview. You can ask questions in the interview and get what should be accurate information.

Air Canada is hiring a lot right now (by Canadian standards) and rumours have it career progression is rather quick (again by Canadian standards).

[pfvspnf]

I've said it before very slim chance . The regionals are feeding quite well and they are so picky I hear.

Good luck

[Flyboy_SG]

Thank you Gentlemen.

[FalseGS]

So AC will pick up a prop pilot over a pilot who has both narrowbody and widebody LH jet time?

You really have to explain the logic behind your assertion.

[altiplano]

AC is hiring a lot.

Yes they are hiring from the regionals, but currently the majority of new hire pilots are coming from other operations, primarily with jet experience. I have seen several new hires from overseas carriers.

If you have the right to work in Canada, and jet airline experience you have an excellent chance of being selected.

Life is generally good at the airline. Lots of types and variety depending on what you wan to do. Join as a FO on 767/737/320/EMJ or RP 777/787. Junior upgrades are about a year right now in Toronto on a EMJ, 2-4 years on the 737/320... FO 777/787/330 is a few years at least. CA on a widebody... who knows, much is changing and will change before the day comes - call it 20 years.

Good luck.

[altiplano]

Originally Posted by FalseGS

So AC will pick up a prop pilot over a pilot who has both narrowbody and widebody LH jet time?

You really have to explain the logic behind your assertion.

AC is hiring many from their regionals under a so called "Pilot Mobility List".

The first iteration of it got the highest paid Jazz pilots out of their seats, thus lowering AC's CPA costs. They were filling a wide majority of their courses with these pilots for a while.

It is no longer the majority now - pilots are being hired from many airlines, corporate, military, etc.

However, AC's regional carriers are well represented on recent courses, and the PML 2.0 serves to draw more people in with the promise of an interview and preferred shot to mainline.

They aren't just 'prop pilots'. Many, even most, are EMJ and CRJ... plus your handful of Q400,/DH8 classic guys.

[Townie]

Originally Posted by altiplano

Life is generally good at the airline. Lots of types and variety depending on what you wan to do. Join as a FO on 767/737/320/EMJ or RP 777/787.

Can you inform on how the initial placement goes?

I understand you don't choose, and are then frozen on type for a few years, before being able to bid off. Is that correct?

If there is an option to choose types, what is the general preference of the candidates? Short haul for fast upgrade, or long haul for lifestyle? I understand that is highly personal, and company requirements supersede preference, but wonder if there is a general consensus out there that you can share.

[altiplano]

There is a seniority draw and pilots choose based on what's available. All those are new hire positions, but not all may be offered depending on available courses at time of joining.

The company has an option to freeze new hires, but I don't believe they have been. The freeze does not apply if you are changing bases or bidding left seat.

"Short haul for fast upgrade" isn't how it works. Upgrade is seniority based, you can bid from 777 RP to 320 CA if your seniority can hold it.

As you say positions are personal. 777RP is a good job, 10 days a month, but some guys don't like to ride in the back and want to fly so will take 320 for 15 days a month... hourly pay is the same years 1-4 for FO/RP.

[Futurepilot1991]

Hi gentleman, what is the average captain upgrade time in a320 and b737 now at air canada

[altiplano]

There's a big position bid that just wrapped up. Official results aren't posted yet, but it appears the junior 737 Captain was hired last year, 320 Captain slightly more senior by maybe a few months.

By the time they're trained it will probably be around 2 years at the company.

I realize that's not the "average" time, but that's not what you're looking for is it?

Lot's of guys wait 5 or 10 or 20 years to upgrade for various reasons primarily related to seniority or perhaps type of flying the want to do.
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[Futurepilot1991]

Originally Posted by altiplano

There's a big position bid that just wrapped up. Official results aren't posted yet, but it appears the junior 737 Captain was hired last year, 320 Captain slightly more senior by maybe a few months.

By the time they're trained it will probably be around 2 years at the company.

I realize that's not the "average" time, but that's not what you're looking for is it?

Lot's of guys wait 5 or 10 or 20 years to upgrade for various reasons primarily related to seniority or perhaps type of flying the want to do.
​​

Thanks Altiplano 😊, so after joining air canada as a 737/320 FO , it takes 2 years (the average ) to uprade to a captain .it looks good , Upgrades are faster ,in NB , than i thought because someone told me that it takes 10 years to upgrade in 737/320 🤔

[CanadaKid]

Trust me ... whatever 'official results' are published the reality may be quite different for some individuals depending on base or equipment or status.

Cheers, CK

[+TSRA]

Thanks Altiplano ��, so after joining air canada as a 737/320 FO , it takes 2 years (the average ) to uprade to a captain .it looks good , Upgrades are faster ,in NB , than i thought because someone told me that it takes 10 years to upgrade in 737/320 ��

Don't ever base your career decisions on the results of the current bid unless you're personally involved.

The fact that someone has been able to upgrade at Air Canada inside two years is approaching the definition of unprecedented. Unfortunately, there are a few pilots hired recently in the industry who have an inflated expectation of their career progression, and this current bid is an example of the fodder feeding those expectations. It does nothing to cool expectations. This is nowhere near the average or median and if you think or plan your future in those terms, you're gonna get butt hurt.

Things are really good at the airlines today. As in, this very second. As in, if you hold a seniority number that is a couple of years old. It is possible this will continue for at least another 5 years, and I envy anyone obtaining a seniority number today as you are likely going to have a very different career than most of us on this forum had. But wake up and realize that you should plan to spend 7 to 10 years in the right seat of a major carrier and about 3 to 5 for a regional. If it happens quicker than that, awesome and good for you, but that's how long it traditionally takes outside of massive growth or retirements. I work with a few angry, bitter boors who joined the airline at a time when qualified pilots were upgrading in 3 to 6 months. Now the upgrade time is a year or two and they can't handle the injustice done to them (please insert sarcasm font).

Don't be a boor. Plan to spend a good amount of time in the right seat. If you can't handle spending 10 years in the right seat, then don't bother coming to the airlines because the fluctuations in this industry won't do you any good.

[Futurepilot1991]

Thank you Guys, i apperciate your answers

[bafanguy]

Originally Posted by +TSRA

Don't ever base your career decisions on the results of the current bid unless you're personally involved.

The fact that someone has been able to upgrade at Air Canada inside two years is approaching the definition of unprecedented. Unfortunately, there are a few pilots hired recently in the industry who have an inflated expectation of their career progression, and this current bid is an example of the fodder feeding those expectations. It does nothing to cool expectations. This is nowhere near the average or median and if you think or plan your future in those terms, you're gonna get butt hurt.

Things are really good at the airlines today. As in, this very second. As in, if you hold a seniority number that is a couple of years old. It is possible this will continue for at least another 5 years, and I envy anyone obtaining a seniority number today as you are likely going to have a very different career than most of us on this forum had. But wake up and realize that you should plan to spend 7 to 10 years in the right seat of a major carrier and about 3 to 5 for a regional. If it happens quicker than that, awesome and good for you, but that's how long it traditionally takes outside of massive growth or retirements. I work with a few angry, bitter boors who joined the airline at a time when qualified pilots were upgrading in 3 to 6 months. Now the upgrade time is a year or two and they can't handle the injustice done to them (please insert sarcasm font).

Don't be a boor. Plan to spend a good amount of time in the right seat. If you can't handle spending 10 years in the right seat, then don't bother coming to the airlines because the fluctuations in this industry won't do you any good.

That's the most accurate, succinct explanation of career-destination airline reality I've ever seen. You young folks should read it over a couple of times.

I certainly understand the focus on being the captain: that's where the professional satisfaction...and money...reside. But, a career is a marathon rather than a sprint.

[BeeSevenSevenDoubleU]

TSRA;

This is a fantastic quote and very well put. Too many pilots (myself included) get stuck on the idea of command. But one has to do the hard yards first! I've finally accepted that.

On another note, any AC pilots who can give me some info on rosters etc? Seriously considering emigrating to Canada Eh, and would love to find out the finer details of AC and if I would be eligible should I get my PR. Yes, I have the flight time requirements, would have to convert to TC ATPL tho.

Thanks in advance!

[altiplano]

Originally Posted by Futurepilot1991

Thanks Altiplano 😊, so after joining air canada as a 737/320 FO , it takes 2 years (the average ) to uprade to a captain .it looks good , Upgrades are faster ,in NB , than i thought because someone told me that it takes 10 years to upgrade in 737/320 🤔

As said... Minimum today, it's a couple years... who knows what it will be next year, etc. and it certainly isn't the historical norm.

Also it doesn't matter what you join as. Upgrades and type bids are seniority based only. It doesn't matter what fleet you are on when you join.